2022-23 NBA MVP Discussion (Pt.1)

[sunsbg]

LOL objectivity from Luka fanboys. I'm saying he's great skill-wise, but has a ball hoggish style/mentality, which is obvious to me since he stepped a foot on NBA floor. Kinda surprising for ex-Euroleague player if you have ever watched how game is played there. It's opinion shared by many and I don't care if you read it. With DFS, Bullock and Dinwiddie he won a second round series. Are they really that bad and it was pure luck ?

I am absolutely more objective than you, no question. I remember your ridiculous comments, whereas I'm not even on the "Luka is the best player in the NBA" bandwagon, which has many non-Dallas fans on it. He does lead my MVP race, but only by a small margin. I also don't agree that he is hogging the ball. To me, a high usage does not necessarily equal hogging the ball. AI, Kobe, to me, they were bigger ball hoggers because they did not have the mindset of "let's find the best shot", they were mostly thinking their shot is the best shot. I also don't understand the Harden thing. Harden isn't terrible to watch because he dribbles a lot, but because of his fall hunting. Luka plays like LeBron, and NOT like Harden.
.
If you watch the Mavs play, you have to see how Luka finds open shooters more than probably any other play in the league, the Mavs players just aren't shooting it well. He is exactly like LeBron in that regard. The Mavs simply plays a "solar system" system, where everything revolves around the "Sun", that player, who is Luka. But they do this out of necessity, more than they do it because they feel this is the best way to be successful. Once they find Luka a legit 2nd option, his usage rate will drop to 31-33%. Also, let's not pretend that your need to point this out or interpret his usage in any way came out of you watching Mavs games. It didn't.

I feel pretty good with all my "ridiculous" comments like Luka fishes for fouls - the league made special rules so that those jumping into a defender are not rewarded with FTs anymore, Luka is a whiner - guy was leading the league in technicals complaining all the time to the refs. I'm sorry you guys don't like my comments, but this doesn't make them ridiculous. As for the ball hogging I guess we have different definitions. For me doesn't matter if a player takes good or bad shots (that's a chucker). It's about time for possession of the ball. Jokic is a good example of someone who you will probably call a "Sun", but he'd never hold the ball for long, even with scribs on the roster like last season. Luka is really a lot more like Harden, who btw assisted more than Luka in his early Houston days. Scoring more inside than using step backs is just a stylistic difference, but the essence is the same. If Harden is a ball hog, so is Luka. It's that simple.

[Bob8]

LOL objectivity from Luka fanboys. I'm saying he's great skill-wise, but has a ball hoggish style/mentality, which is obvious to me since he stepped a foot on NBA floor. Kinda surprising for ex-Euroleague player if you have ever watched how game is played there. It's opinion shared by many and I don't care if you read it. With DFS, Bullock and Dinwiddie he won a second round series. Are they really that bad and it was pure luck ?

I am absolutely more objective than you, no question. I remember your ridiculous comments, whereas I'm not even on the "Luka is the best player in the NBA" bandwagon, which has many non-Dallas fans on it. He does lead my MVP race, but only by a small margin. I also don't agree that he is hogging the ball. To me, a high usage does not necessarily equal hogging the ball. AI, Kobe, to me, they were bigger ball hoggers because they did not have the mindset of "let's find the best shot", they were mostly thinking their shot is the best shot. I also don't understand the Harden thing. Harden isn't terrible to watch because he dribbles a lot, but because of his fall hunting. Luka plays like LeBron, and NOT like Harden.
.
If you watch the Mavs play, you have to see how Luka finds open shooters more than probably any other play in the league, the Mavs players just aren't shooting it well. He is exactly like LeBron in that regard. The Mavs simply plays a "solar system" system, where everything revolves around the "Sun", that player, who is Luka. But they do this out of necessity, more than they do it because they feel this is the best way to be successful. Once they find Luka a legit 2nd option, his usage rate will drop to 31-33%. Also, let's not pretend that your need to point this out or interpret his usage in any way came out of you watching Mavs games. It didn't.

I feel pretty good with all my "ridiculous" comments like Luka fishes for fouls - the league made special rules so that those jumping into a defender are not rewarded with FTs anymore, Luka is a whiner - guy was leading the league in technicals complaining all the time to the refs. I'm sorry you guys don't like my comments, but this doesn't make them ridiculous. As for the ball hogging I guess we have different definitions. For me doesn't matter if a player takes good or bad shots (that's a chucker). It's about time for possession of the ball. Jokic is a good example of someone who you will probably call a "Sun", but he'd never hold the ball for long, even with scribs on the roster like last season. Luka is really a lot more like Harden, who btw assisted more than Luka in his early Houston days. Scoring more inside than using step backs is just a stylistic difference, but the essence is the same. If Harden is a ball hog, so is Luka. It's that simple.

Don't you think that is a bit difficult for C to hold the ball very long?

Harden's problem was never RS. His problem was playoffs, where his numbers plunged. Contrary of him, Luka is having better numbers in playoffs than in RS.

[sunsbg]

Don't you think that is a bit difficult for C to hold the ball very long?

Harden's problem was never RS. His problem was playoffs, where his numbers plunged. Contrary of him, Luka is having better numbers in playoffs than in RS.

Different personalities - Jokic a grounded person, Luka a glory hunter. Don't think it's only a positional thing. If Jokic was a PG he would be passing even more. Harden RS vs playoffs is irrelevant in this discussion of ball hogging.

[Bob8]

Don't you think that is a bit difficult for C to hold the ball very long?

Harden's problem was never RS. His problem was playoffs, where his numbers plunged. Contrary of him, Luka is having better numbers in playoffs than in RS.

Different personalities - Jokic a grounded person, Luka a glory hunter. Don't think it's only a positional thing. If Jokic was a PG he would be passing even more. Harden RS vs playoffs is irrelevant in this discussion of ball hogging.

...and have the ball more time.

It's relevant to understand why Harden's style of playing wasn't more successful. He just couldn't play his game in playoffs, Luka can.

[sunsbg]

Don't you think that is a bit difficult for C to hold the ball very long?

Harden's problem was never RS. His problem was playoffs, where his numbers plunged. Contrary of him, Luka is having better numbers in playoffs than in RS.

Different personalities - Jokic a grounded person, Luka a glory hunter. Don't think it's only a positional thing. If Jokic was a PG he would be passing even more. Harden RS vs playoffs is irrelevant in this discussion of ball hogging.

...and have the ball more time.

...bringing the ball up court yes, but won't look to score first, pass second.

[Bob8]

Different personalities - Jokic a grounded person, Luka a glory hunter. Don't think it's only a positional thing. If Jokic was a PG he would be passing even more. Harden RS vs playoffs is irrelevant in this discussion of ball hogging.

...and have the ball more time.

...bringing the ball up court yes, but won't look to score first, pass second.

You're saying to me that score first superstars can't be successful?

[sunsbg]

...and have the ball more time.

...bringing the ball up court yes, but won't look to score first, pass second.

You're saying to me that score first superstars can't be successful?

Just read my previous comments. Beating a dead horse now. Let's have this discussion again...in a few years.

[mpoo_sin]

The favourites were Serbs. Then it was Greece and Slovenia. Jokic went out 1 round before Luka and Giannis in the same round. In those tournaments anyone can win. The 1 tournament before Slovenia has won being 30:1 before the tournament.

Nobody is winning in Nba with 23 years unless he has great team, when he's drafted, like Magic. I would say that playing in WCF is overachievement for Luka and the Mavs with roster like that. They basically needed only solid C to have chances for something more. Looney just destroyed Mavs' bigs in WCF.

Luka totally outplayed Booker in game 6 and 7. If Booker was in Luka's tier that shouldn't have happened. After that series nobody will put Booker in the same conversation with Luka until Booker wins a title.

CP3 is great player, but in playoffs **** happened every time he could do something. He might be the unluckiest player ever or ...

Pretty sure Slovenia was the favorite with 8 teams remaining and lost to Poland, who lost by 40 next game. This loss is almost as embarassing for Slovenia as Gm7 for the Suns. I never said Booker is on Luka's level, just that he's a better off ball player so easier to fit with other ball handlers. Some of those CP3 failures were because of injuries, just like latest one. He is 37yo. Luka may not even play in the league by that age or with his eating habbits will barely move and become worst defender in league history.

I was in the arena when Slovenia played vs Poland.
Poland played amazing, one player specifically played the biggest game of his life (Ponitka: 41pts 16 def rebs 10 ast 3 stl)
Doncic hurt his hip early on and couldn t push of of his left leg anymore. It was brutal to watch, especially during timeouts...his gait was like Zion Williamsons just exaggerated.
So, i really do not think that the Suns-loss compares to Slovenias loss the way you pictured it.

Also, Doncic is really playing solid defense this year. Main problem is that he sometimes is not there to actually defend because he is complaining/talking to a ref.

[sunsbg]

I was in the arena when Slovenia played vs Poland.
Poland played amazing, one player specifically played the biggest game of his life (Ponitka: 41pts 16 def rebs 10 ast 3 stl)
Doncic hurt his hip early on and couldn t push of of his left leg anymore. It was brutal to watch, especially during timeouts...his gait was like Zion Williamsons just exaggerated.
So, i really do not think that the Suns-loss compares to Slovenias loss the way you pictured it.

Also, Doncic is really playing solid defense this year. Main problem is that he sometimes is not there to actually defend because he is complaining/talking to a ref.

Well, I don't think Bob8 cares about CP3 being hurt and 37yo, so I won't give a pass to Luka either.

[Bob8]

I was in the arena when Slovenia played vs Poland.
Poland played amazing, one player specifically played the biggest game of his life (Ponitka: 41pts 16 def rebs 10 ast 3 stl)
Doncic hurt his hip early on and couldn t push of of his left leg anymore. It was brutal to watch, especially during timeouts...his gait was like Zion Williamsons just exaggerated.
So, i really do not think that the Suns-loss compares to Slovenias loss the way you pictured it.

Also, Doncic is really playing solid defense this year. Main problem is that he sometimes is not there to actually defend because he is complaining/talking to a ref.

Well, I don't think Bob8 cares about CP3 being hurt and 37yo, so I won't give a pass to Luka either.

CP3 is "injured" his whole playoffs career. I guess it's really bad luck that he turned 37 in the middle of the series against Mavs.

[mpoo_sin]

I was in the arena when Slovenia played vs Poland.
Poland played amazing, one player specifically played the biggest game of his life (Ponitka: 41pts 16 def rebs 10 ast 3 stl)
Doncic hurt his hip early on and couldn t push of of his left leg anymore. It was brutal to watch, especially during timeouts...his gait was like Zion Williamsons just exaggerated.
So, i really do not think that the Suns-loss compares to Slovenias loss the way you pictured it.

Also, Doncic is really playing solid defense this year. Main problem is that he sometimes is not there to actually defend because he is complaining/talking to a ref.

Well, I don't think Bob8 cares about CP3 being hurt and 37yo, so I won't give a pass to Luka either.

It also was only a 3 point loss and not one by fiddy. : )

Anyways..i think Doncic is leading the MVP race right now. I still would put Antetokounmpo close behind even though he had a slightly less otherworldly stretch these last few games. Tatum is 3rd....maybe Curry after that?

[sunsbg]

CP3 is "injured" his whole playoffs career. I guess it's really bad luck that he turned 37 in the middle of the series against Mavs.

All facts. You are finally getting it.

Man, that Suns game that just ended had a lot of good ball and player movement and Suns don't even have a great passer like Luka. Go figure how that is possible.

[Bob8]

CP3 is "injured" his whole playoffs career. I guess it's really bad luck that he turned 37 in the middle of the series against Mavs.

All facts. You are finally getting it.

Man, that Suns game that just ended had a lot of good ball and player movement and Suns don't even have a great passer like Luka. Go figure how that is possible.

I have seen enough in games 6 and 7 to know exactly what Suns don't have.

[sunsbg]

CP3 is "injured" his whole playoffs career. I guess it's really bad luck that he turned 37 in the middle of the series against Mavs.

All facts. You are finally getting it.

Man, that Suns game that just ended had a lot of good ball and player movement and Suns don't even have a great passer like Luka. Go figure how that is possible.

I have seen enough in games 6 and 7 to know exactly what Suns don't have.

A healthy PG like Slovenia vs Poland ?

[Bob8]

All facts. You are finally getting it.

Man, that Suns game that just ended had a lot of good ball and player movement and Suns don't even have a great passer like Luka. Go figure how that is possible.

I have seen enough in games 6 and 7 to know exactly what Suns don't have.

A healthy PG like Slovenia vs Poland ?

Ball-hogg with the balls.

Everyone acts tough, when they're up. It was a disappearance act in game 7.

[sunsbg]

Ball-hogg with the balls.

I'll still take a healthy PG, who makes players around him better.

Good night! I think it's past your bed time as well.

[Bob8]

Ball-hogg with the balls.

I'll still take a healthy PG, who makes players around him better.

Good night! I think it's past your bed time as well.

...but can't win a title?

[BoatsNZones]

Just listened to a Ringer podcast with Wos and the nerds (clearly not stat nerds), and they had their early season official “best of” discussion, including best player thus far (not MVP). They mentioned 4-5 names, and Steph Curry’s never came up once in the podcast. What generational player is less respected than him? Giving D Book 1st Team over Curry last year was a joke as well.

Literally record breaking start (better than his 2016 unanimous MVP stat line, which was unarguable due to the record breaking wins), and he’s not a *mention*. It’s wild how clueless people who do this for a living can be.

[BoatsNZones]

Another 33/7/15 on a 75% TS (3 steals, 2 blocks, 1 turnover) for the best player in the association this season. The reigning Finals MVP and top player of the past decade. The Chef.

[BoatsNZones]

Luka and the Mavs lose at home to a Nuggets team without Jokic and Murray, with the Mavs bench crushing as usual. That’s wild. Luka was an inefficient +1 to his credit I suppose?