Shams: Grizzlies trade Desmond Bane to Magic for KCP, Cole Anthony, 4 1sts, 1 Pick Swap...

[OrlandoDream]

Six games in huh? You've outdone yourselves realGM. FYI, Bane has been fine. He is not the problem for the poor start. He is being very unselfish and looking to pass and get Paolo/Franz going early. Mosely does need to do a better job at running some plays for him but I wont get my hopes up. I expect our next coach to be an experienced NBA coach who knows how to use our core players' strengths.

what do you summize the issue with orlando to be? i only saw some of the miami game this season so far.

A combination of multiple factors but the main reason for 1-4 start has been sloppy basketball, causing 18+ turnovers,s giving up 20+ points to the other team, not playing the defense we have been known for last 2-3 years, and missing 10+ free throws. Your not gonna win many games with that lack of discipline to any NBA team. Also, Paolo started first 3-4 games poorly. Playing low effort defense, pouting when he doesn't get the call, taking bad iso shots, and not moving the ball.

However, something about that Pistons L seemed to create a spark. Its the Hornets and Wiz but last two games playing more like Magic basketball, complete opposite on that 1-4 start. These guys just need time together to adapt to the new pieces. We traded some defense for offense and are trying a new offensive system. These adjustments take time.

[Sane]

Magic always needed a table setter not another sg. Truly better off playing Suggs at the 2. Way too many players and few shots to give to everyone w/o a pg to direct.

Hmm do you think they really need a table-setting PG to get into their sets? Not many teams have that anymore and it seems like guys like paolo and franz can get going in their spots okay. It seems like they more so need something to make their offense fluid and faster, but that's maybe the fault of having two big sort of iso-y creators.

Yes.

Paolo and Franz can be iso-y, but they need to take the next step in their development and learn how to be effective on offense off-ball. They are both guys that need the ball. While they are good in that aspect, this iteration of the Magic would have been better off with a point guard that can get them into better scoring opportunities, rather than upgrading one position with volume shooting without the system that lends itself to that player.

Jalen Suggs was a fine option as a SG 3-D guy that sets the tone defensively for others. He isn't a playmaking point that gets guys better looks on the floor.

I may be misunderstanding you but this doesn't seem to make sense. You have two guys who need the ball and your solution is to add yet another who needs the ball (a traditional floor general)?

So then you have Banchero and Wagner decline since as you say they are best with the ball in their hands.

Doesn't it seem like you're thinking about development while the team is thinking about winning now? They just traded 4 picks for Bane. Sacrificing something in-season for the sake of "I feel like Banchero should be better off ball" doesn't seem like it's reasonable advice. Maybe you just don't agree with this teams strategy in the big picture?

[eyriq]

Hmm do you think they really need a table-setting PG to get into their sets? Not many teams have that anymore and it seems like guys like paolo and franz can get going in their spots okay. It seems like they more so need something to make their offense fluid and faster, but that's maybe the fault of having two big sort of iso-y creators.

Yes.

Paolo and Franz can be iso-y, but they need to take the next step in their development and learn how to be effective on offense off-ball. They are both guys that need the ball. While they are good in that aspect, this iteration of the Magic would have been better off with a point guard that can get them into better scoring opportunities, rather than upgrading one position with volume shooting without the system that lends itself to that player.

Jalen Suggs was a fine option as a SG 3-D guy that sets the tone defensively for others. He isn't a playmaking point that gets guys better looks on the floor.

I may be misunderstanding you but this doesn't seem to make sense. You have two guys who need the ball and your solution is to add yet another who needs the ball (a traditional floor general)?

So then you have Banchero and Wagner decline since as you say they are best with the ball in their hands.

Doesn't it seem like you're thinking about development while the team is thinking about winning now? They just traded 4 picks for Bane. Sacrificing something in-season for the sake of "I feel like Banchero should be better off ball" doesn't seem like it's reasonable advice. Maybe you just don't agree with this teams strategy in the big picture?

You've nailed it. It's a winghub offense with playmaking generated by two 6'10 forwards. Any take that says we need to move away from this to a traditional floor general build is really a request to retool the core. A complete nonstarter.

The build is designed to win on effort and toughness and Bane is meant to shore up the skill and speed deficit. The team is +3.4 on Oreb + half-court 2's + half-court rebounding and -2.9 on half-court 3's and fast break.

Any advantage in creating turnovers is muted with Suggs minute restrictions.

The personnel and formula is there to start winning big and get back on track.

[threethehardway]

The Magic suffer because they gathered a bunch of secondary playmakers and have them trying to run an offense.

The Magic legitimately play like a team from the early 2000s.

Magic fans are in denial, thinking that wasting 4 picks on Desmond freaking Bane, when your team can't even run a proper offense for the last however long is insane.

Aren't Magic fans tired of having subpar lead guard play?

Only way this roster works if is if Franz or Paolo becomes a transcendent offensive player where they can offset the complete lack of offensive creativity and structure with league leading individual offense.

Trading for 4 picks for Desmond Bane was organizational mal-practice. Could've gotten Anfernee Simons and a shotblocking starting center for cheap. Move Wendell Carter to a backup. Now you get some spacing. The Magic really needed was an average starting NBA guard that can run some sets and create shots, so Jalen Suggs can slide down to the 2.

But no, Magic are going all in with this "defense-first, 6'5 and up" thing and not understanding that you have to be able to score consistently and effectively, this is 2025, not 2003.

The entire team still can't shoot because nobody in the Magic organization wants to get with the times. With Paolo and Franz, they should be modelling themselves after the Tatum and Brown Celtics, and get cheap shooting and playmaking around them. Not selling out your draft picks for a guy that isn't even better than Collin Sexton or Normal Powell.

With the package the Magic gave up, they should've gotten Devin Booker or someone with some cache.

But no, it's like the team is ran by RealGM purists, "Everyone has to be able to play defense", no, not really, everyone has to be able to shoot. If you are going to go without an official point guard, that can make plays, you are gonna have to have a great wing player or a big man to make up for that.

The Magic are a disappointing team. So disappointing. Their entire team philosophy is so stupid.

[KokoKaizer]

The Magic suffer because they gathered a bunch of secondary playmakers and have them trying to run an offense.

The Magic legitimately play like a team from the early 2000s.

Magic fans are in denial, thinking that wasting 4 picks on Desmond freaking Bane, when your team can't even run a proper offense for the last however long is insane.

Aren't Magic fans tired of having subpar lead guard play?

Only way this roster works if is if Franz or Paolo becomes a transcendent offensive player where they can offset the complete lack of offensive creativity and structure with league leading individual offense.

Trading for 4 picks for Desmond Bane was organizational mal-practice. Could've gotten Anfernee Simons and a shotblocking starting center. Move Wendell Carter to a backup.

All the Magic really needed was an average starting NBA guard that can run some sets and create shots, so Jalen Suggs can slide down to the 2.

But no, Magic are going all in with this "defense-first, 6'5 and up" thing and not understanding that you have to be able to score consistently and effectively, this is 2025, not 2003.

The entire team still can't shoot because nobody in the Magic organization wants to get with the times. With Paolo and Franz, they should be modelling themselves after the Tatum and Brown Celtics, and get cheap shooting and playmaking around them. Not selling out your draft picks for a guy that isn't even better than Collin Sexton or Normal Powell.

But no, it's like the team is ran by RealGM purists, "Everyone has to be able to play defense", no, not really, everyone has to be able to shoot. If you are going to go without an official point guard, that can make plays, you are gonna have to have a great wing player or a big man to make up for that.

The Magic are a disappointing team. So disappointing.

Ok ok 4 picks is too much but Anfernee Simons ??? Really

[threethehardway]

Ok ok 4 picks is too much but Anfernee Simons ??? Really

I didn't say trade 4 picks for Anfernee Simons.

You could've gotten Anfernee Simons for nothing.

You could've gotten Collin Sexton for nothing.

The Magic got fleeced because they didn't understand in this new CBA, you don't give up picks for consistently non-All NBA/ Non-All Star level guards.

Same with De'Aaron Fox and the Spurs. The Spurs got fleeced too, but at least they have Wemby to make up for it and they got a position of need.

Desmond Bane is a dime a dozen guard that got overrated because he played on playoff teams but nobody understands unless a guard is the playmaking type, that can be an offensive hub, they aren't worth much. They are literally interchangeable.

Collin Sexton/Anfernee Simons could've came in, relaxed the ballhandling duties of Franz/Paolo that need to learn how to space the court, and cut and not always have the ball. Could've played Collin Sexton/Anfernee Simons along side Anthony Black and they could've spaced the floor for him and take on more complex ball handling duties instead of making Anthony Black think he's a real PG.

But no, you got an entire roster of non-shooters and Desmond Bane and expect different results.

The Magic went and got Tyus Jones, who is a meme. He is who fans bring up, when they know a team needs a PG and suggest getting a Real PG (TM). He's a small guy that can't shoot, can't score.

The Magic are allergic to offense. At this point, your organization doesn't want to score points and you as fans, have been convinced that you can run your offense through Franz and Paolo, like they are MJ and Pippen or something. When all evidence proves that's not the case. All evidence shows that your organization has a flawed team building strategy because no contending team is building their team this way because mathematically, it is stupid. You need shooters, you need playmaking, because you want to shoot a lot of 3s and free throws.

And your team is like, "No, we just want to play defense."

Then spend 4 picks on Desmond Freaking Bane and then are like, "See, here's someone that can shoot."

200 million plus for Desmond Freaking Bane.

[eyriq]

The Magic suffer because they gathered a bunch of secondary playmakers and have them trying to run an offense.

The Magic legitimately play like a team from the early 2000s.

Magic fans are in denial, thinking that wasting 4 picks on Desmond freaking Bane, when your team can't even run a proper offense for the last however long is insane.

Aren't Magic fans tired of having subpar lead guard play?

Only way this roster works if is if Franz or Paolo becomes a transcendent offensive player where they can offset the complete lack of offensive creativity and structure with league leading individual offense.

Trading for 4 picks for Desmond Bane was organizational mal-practice. Could've gotten Anfernee Simons and a shotblocking starting center. Move Wendell Carter to a backup.

All the Magic really needed was an average starting NBA guard that can run some sets and create shots, so Jalen Suggs can slide down to the 2.

But no, Magic are going all in with this "defense-first, 6'5 and up" thing and not understanding that you have to be able to score consistently and effectively, this is 2025, not 2003.

The entire team still can't shoot because nobody in the Magic organization wants to get with the times. With Paolo and Franz, they should be modelling themselves after the Tatum and Brown Celtics, and get cheap shooting and playmaking around them. Not selling out your draft picks for a guy that isn't even better than Collin Sexton or Normal Powell.

With the package the Magic gave up, they should've gotten Devin Booker or someone with some cache.

But no, it's like the team is ran by RealGM purists, "Everyone has to be able to play defense", no, not really, everyone has to be able to shoot. If you are going to go without an official point guard, that can make plays, you are gonna have to have a great wing player or a big man to make up for that.

The Magic are a disappointing team. So disappointing. Their entire team philosophy is so stupid.

1. There is nothing wrong with distributed playmaking. The Celtics won a championship with this approach.

2. Every build needs a transcendant star!

3. Bane is one of the elite three point specialist in league history. He'll be fine.

4. Simmons??? LOL

[pipfan]

I thought Orl should have gone for Coby W-he would have been cheaper and is a better creator than Bane. Of course, he's worse on D but better on offense (which the Magic need). Plus he's under $13 million this year and will almost assuredly be cheaper on his next deal

I would have done it for the #16 and the #25 pick, plus the matching salary.

Bulls could have done the Port deal and sent their pick back to them with the #16 to get to #11 and take Coward (like Memphis did). OR-do the obvious thing, take Noa then deal the #12 to NO for that precious 2026 1st

Anyway-I like the Magic's core but I think they top out as a 2nd round team, MAYBE sneaking into a Conference Finals some down year

[threethehardway]

The Magic suffer because they gathered a bunch of secondary playmakers and have them trying to run an offense.

The Magic legitimately play like a team from the early 2000s.

Magic fans are in denial, thinking that wasting 4 picks on Desmond freaking Bane, when your team can't even run a proper offense for the last however long is insane.

Aren't Magic fans tired of having subpar lead guard play?

Only way this roster works if is if Franz or Paolo becomes a transcendent offensive player where they can offset the complete lack of offensive creativity and structure with league leading individual offense.

Trading for 4 picks for Desmond Bane was organizational mal-practice. Could've gotten Anfernee Simons and a shotblocking starting center. Move Wendell Carter to a backup.

All the Magic really needed was an average starting NBA guard that can run some sets and create shots, so Jalen Suggs can slide down to the 2.

But no, Magic are going all in with this "defense-first, 6'5 and up" thing and not understanding that you have to be able to score consistently and effectively, this is 2025, not 2003.

The entire team still can't shoot because nobody in the Magic organization wants to get with the times. With Paolo and Franz, they should be modelling themselves after the Tatum and Brown Celtics, and get cheap shooting and playmaking around them. Not selling out your draft picks for a guy that isn't even better than Collin Sexton or Normal Powell.

With the package the Magic gave up, they should've gotten Devin Booker or someone with some cache.

But no, it's like the team is ran by RealGM purists, "Everyone has to be able to play defense", no, not really, everyone has to be able to shoot. If you are going to go without an official point guard, that can make plays, you are gonna have to have a great wing player or a big man to make up for that.

The Magic are a disappointing team. So disappointing. Their entire team philosophy is so stupid.

1. There is nothing wrong with distributed playmaking. The Celtics won a championship with this approach.

2. Every build needs a transcendant star!

3. Bane is one of the elite three point specialist in league history. He'll be fine.

4. Simmons??? LOL

1. The Celtics won with elite shooting and defense. The Celtics won because their entire team was able to shoot at volume. Your team haven't been able to shoot since Dwight Howard.

2. No, not every team needs a transcendent star. Tatum and Brown are not transcendent stars. Tatum and Brown benefitted for elite organizational management that weren't delusional about what they have. They had All-NBA level players, not transcendent players, thus they went out and built the most talented roster they could afford, on the cheap, so their two stars wouldn't be burdened by having to do a lot. Tatum and Brown don't have to be transcendent with their roster.

With the roster the Magic have, Paolo and Franz has to be transcendent, because that roster is simply not good. It lacks shooting and playmaking. Paolo and Franz has to do everything or you guys wouldn't win a 7 game series.

3. Bane is a non-descript starting level shooting guard that cost the Magic 4 1st rounders, so he can provide elite shooting. Elite shooting doesn't cost that much. Look at Norman Powell or Malik Beasley - this isn't 2003. Desmond Bane isn't even better than Austin Reaves and Austin Reaves out here making McDonald's wages comparatively. Your team is going to be in cap hell and without draft picks, hoping and praying, Paolo or Franz hit Lebron level to justify this trade.

Austin Reaves on the Magic could be your best offensive player, that's how bad it is.

4. Simons can actually dribble and shoot. Beggars can't be choosers, your team needs a guard that dribble and shoot. You guys haven't had that since you got Franz. You guys were stuck with Markelle Fultz. I don't know why you guys are laughing, when you haven't developed a guard that can consistently hit a step back three. Have you guys even drafted a guard that can like, run a pick and roll?

When the last time you guys have seen a pick and roll ran properly by one of your guards? When the last time one of your guards, rejected a screen and cut back over and hit a step back 3? When the last time you seen one of your guards, consistently throw a skip pass to the corner?

Those are the type of actions that unlock your secondary playmakers to playmake. It's not just give Franz and Paolo the ball and watch them struggle to get the rim and then kick it out, "Look, I told you we don't need a point guard."

Bob Cousy could be resurrected and with the same game and style of play and he would legit be the best PG you guys had in about 10 years.

I don't know how you guys watch NBA professional basketball played without competent starting professional guard play for years. I am talking about Dennis Schroder level. Your team has given up on guard play for no discernible reason.

The Magic don't even have a sparkplug 6 man guard that can do stuff.

The Magic suffer from Point Guard Nihilism.

[WillyJakkz]

Said it when we did it. Stupid trade.

The idea of Bane in Orlando was fine but you don't trade 4 1sts for him. That's a package we should've sent for a Ja Morant for example.

NY goofed up the trade game with the Mikal Bridges package following what was at the time the Rudy Gobert overpay but that kinda worked for MIN.

We just don't have a PG.... again.

Our team doesn't fit now so time to get rid of a main guy like Franz or someone unfortunately to right the ship. Jrue Holiday is older but he'd fit. Maybe we can get a cheap deal and take a flyer on Scoot maybe.

But we're cooked without a PG to play off Paolo and Franz.

We always do some stupid crap.

[badpotato]

Same with De'Aaron Fox and the Spurs. The Spurs got fleeced too, but at least they have Wemby to make up for it and they got a position of need.

Huh? We sent out CHA 2025 (which was guaranteed to become two 2nds at that point), gave back the Bulls’ 2025 pick (which was protected), our own 2027 (we plan to be good and have good reasons to believe we will be), and 2031 MIN — far away, and it’s reasonable to believe MIN picks won’t be a hot commodity in Ant’s prime. The only pick with real upside we gave up was 31 Minesota one.

We also sent out a nothingburger in Sissoko and managed to dump Collins, which would’ve cost a first-rounder to get rid of anyway.

I don’t think we got fleeced.

Sorry for the sidetrack, but I felt compelled to respond.

[KokoKaizer]

Same with De'Aaron Fox and the Spurs. The Spurs got fleeced too, but at least they have Wemby to make up for it and they got a position of need.

Huh? We sent out CHA 2025 (which was guaranteed to become two 2nds at that point), gave back the Bulls’ 2025 pick (which was protected), our own 2027 (we plan to be good and have good reasons to believe we will be), and 2031 MIN — far away, and it’s reasonable to believe MIN picks won’t be a hot commodity in Ant’s prime. The only pick with real upside we gave up was 31 Minesota one.

We also sent out a nothingburger in Sissoko and managed to dump Collins, which would’ve cost a first-rounder to get rid of anyway.

I don’t think we got fleeced.

Sorry for the sidetrack, but I felt compelled to respond.

No need to be sorry, I like your argument

[threethehardway]

Same with De'Aaron Fox and the Spurs. The Spurs got fleeced too, but at least they have Wemby to make up for it and they got a position of need.

Huh? We sent out CHA 2025 (which was guaranteed to become two 2nds at that point), gave back the Bulls’ 2025 pick (which was protected), our own 2027 (we plan to be good and have good reasons to believe we will be), and 2031 MIN — far away, and it’s reasonable to believe MIN picks won’t be a hot commodity in Ant’s prime. The only pick with real upside we gave up was 31 Minesota one.

We also sent out a nothingburger in Sissoko and managed to dump Collins, which would’ve cost a first-rounder to get rid of anyway.

I don’t think we got fleeced.

Sorry for the sidetrack, but I felt compelled to respond.

It's about De'Aaron Fox contract. I would do anything to get off of his contract.

He isn't worth that much and he isn't that good.

However, like I said, the Spurs got Wemby and unlike the Magic, who are delusional about the needs of a PG for their young stars, the Spurs got a PG so Wemby wouldn't be frustrated with passes from Sochan.

If it was the Magic, they would've went and gotten a center or a shooting guard and still have Sochan running point because, you know, having a PG isn't necessary if your best player can dribble a little bit.

[badpotato]

It's about De'Aaron Fox contract. I would do anything to get off of his contract.

He isn't worth that much and he isn't that good.

However, like I said, the Spurs got Wemby and unlike the Magic, who are delusional about the needs of a PG for their young stars, the Spurs got a PG so Wemby wouldn't be frustrated with passes from Sochan.

If it was the Magic, they would've went and gotten a center or a shooting guard and still have Sochan running point because, you know, having a PG isn't necessary if your best player can dribble a little bit.

We'll see once Fox comes back from surgery - if he looks like the 2023 version of himself, he's easily worth it for the Spurs.

Regarding Desmond - it's early, and he's not looking too hot. This trade might be an overpay, however, it's not really fair to claim that they didn’t try to address team needs here. The guy is a career 40% three-point shooter and has steadily increased his assist totals every year - both of which Orlando needed.

Keep in mind that getting rid of KCP would’ve cost them anyway, so when you factor that in, for me it’s really 2–3 firsts after the KCP tax.

[threethehardway]

It's about De'Aaron Fox contract. I would do anything to get off of his contract.

He isn't worth that much and he isn't that good.

However, like I said, the Spurs got Wemby and unlike the Magic, who are delusional about the needs of a PG for their young stars, the Spurs got a PG so Wemby wouldn't be frustrated with passes from Sochan.

If it was the Magic, they would've went and gotten a center or a shooting guard and still have Sochan running point because, you know, having a PG isn't necessary if your best player can dribble a little bit.

We'll see once Fox comes back from surgery - if he looks like the 2023 version of himself, he's easily worth it for the Spurs.

Regarding Desmond - it's early, and he's not looking too hot. This trade might be an overpay, however, it's not really fair to claim that they didn’t try to address team needs here. The guy is a career 40% three-point shooter and has steadily increased his assist totals every year - both of which Orlando needed.

Keep in mind that getting rid of KCP would’ve cost them anyway, so when you factor that in, for me it’s really 2–3 firsts after the KCP tax.

Well that's my point.

The Magic are hard headed.

You try the whole, "No real point guard" thing and it didn't get you anywhere.

Then you say, "The real issue isn't a PG, but not having a good enough SG..."

And got a guy that can't make plays that Paolo and Franz can't make.

The benefit of a having a PG is the fact they see plays other positions don't and they make plays other positions don't by the nature of their skill-set.

I don't care how many assist Desmond Bane get, he doesn't make the same reads as a Ja or a Trae Young or a Darius Garland or a De'Aaron Fox.

It's not about generating assists, it's about manipulating defenses so you don't end up with 3 eyes on your best player every time you come down the court.

The Magic have a silly vision for their team. No different than Masai and his whole 6'9 wings thing that wasted everyone's time. Positions still matter. It don't matter if you got a LeBron or a Luka or a Jokic or a Magic, but if you don't have that, then you should follow it.

They keep thinking Paolo and Franz are point forwards and they are not. They are secondary ball handlers that would be best served playing off starting level PG play, making plays when a defense is broken down instead of 2 to 3 guys staring at them when they have the ball.

The Magic aren't trying to solve the issue. They doubled down on the issue because they truly believe that they can run a good offense with Franz and Paolo as primary playmakers with that horrendous shooting they have.

People keep talking about Desmond Bane like he Devin Booker or something. Nobody is going to rate Desmond Bane like that.

[badpotato]

This vision was working out quite nicely for the Magic last season before Paolo, Franz, and Suggs got hurt. I’ll give them a bit of time to turn the ship around, given they’re most likely a bit rusty and Desmond needs some time to adapt.

The only thing that really worries me is Banchero’s play - his shot selection and overall efficiency aren’t exactly inspiring.

For the record, I also don’t think they’ll be able to play effective playoffs basketball using this formula, but I’m not 100% sure - they’ve never really had the opportunity to give that an honest try. Right now, they’re playing below what they’re capable of, even with the roster deficiencies you mentioned.

[VFX]

Hmm do you think they really need a table-setting PG to get into their sets? Not many teams have that anymore and it seems like guys like paolo and franz can get going in their spots okay. It seems like they more so need something to make their offense fluid and faster, but that's maybe the fault of having two big sort of iso-y creators.

Yes.

Paolo and Franz can be iso-y, but they need to take the next step in their development and learn how to be effective on offense off-ball. They are both guys that need the ball. While they are good in that aspect, this iteration of the Magic would have been better off with a point guard that can get them into better scoring opportunities, rather than upgrading one position with volume shooting without the system that lends itself to that player.

Jalen Suggs was a fine option as a SG 3-D guy that sets the tone defensively for others. He isn't a playmaking point that gets guys better looks on the floor.

I may be misunderstanding you but this doesn't seem to make sense. You have two guys who need the ball and your solution is to add yet another who needs the ball (a traditional floor general)?

So then you have Banchero and Wagner decline since as you say they are best with the ball in their hands.

Doesn't it seem like you're thinking about development while the team is thinking about winning now? They just traded 4 picks for Bane. Sacrificing something in-season for the sake of "I feel like Banchero should be better off ball" doesn't seem like it's reasonable advice. Maybe you just don't agree with this teams strategy in the big picture?

It only doesn’t make sense if you are unfamiliar with how Orlando’s offense is run.

Neither Paolo or Franz are efficient at making plays for anyone but themselves a majority of the time. This is why you see Bane struggling now with less touches.

It’s not like they are Cade averaging 9-10 assists per game while averaging 20+ points. They are individual playmakers that operate in isolation and aren’t terrific shooters.

[Sane]

Yes.

Paolo and Franz can be iso-y, but they need to take the next step in their development and learn how to be effective on offense off-ball. They are both guys that need the ball. While they are good in that aspect, this iteration of the Magic would have been better off with a point guard that can get them into better scoring opportunities, rather than upgrading one position with volume shooting without the system that lends itself to that player.

Jalen Suggs was a fine option as a SG 3-D guy that sets the tone defensively for others. He isn't a playmaking point that gets guys better looks on the floor.

I may be misunderstanding you but this doesn't seem to make sense. You have two guys who need the ball and your solution is to add yet another who needs the ball (a traditional floor general)?

So then you have Banchero and Wagner decline since as you say they are best with the ball in their hands.

Doesn't it seem like you're thinking about development while the team is thinking about winning now? They just traded 4 picks for Bane. Sacrificing something in-season for the sake of "I feel like Banchero should be better off ball" doesn't seem like it's reasonable advice. Maybe you just don't agree with this teams strategy in the big picture?

It only doesn’t make sense if you are unfamiliar with how Orlando’s offense is run.

Neither Paolo or Franz are efficient at making plays for anyone but themselves a majority of the time. This is why you see Bane struggling now with less touches.

It’s not like they are Cade averaging 9-10 assists per game while averaging 20+ points. They are individual playmakers that operate in isolation and aren’t terrific shooters.

I think I'm probably far too familiar with Orlando's offense for a non-fan.

You're measuring the playmaking ability of Banchero and Wagner within a warped experiment. Your team has had the most clogged paint in the NBA for a couple of years now - IIRC it was the worst offense (by shooting) for a playoff team in the past ten years. Surely you've heard this being discussed on your boards. You've notice teams ALWAYS pack the paint against you guys specifically (which murders drive and kick opportunities). That's not normal. It's not a slight inconvenience. Your players are exerting way more effort to achieve a way less efficient shot than they would get in any average treadmill offense.

So you can't be jumping to conclusions right now on a team that's just building chemistry. You can't be making statements like "they can't make plays for anyone". It's WAAAAY too early. You've never seen this guys in average spacing (nevermind the excellent spacing you will ultimately require to win a title).

Also frankly they are a clunky fit with each other even if you put the greatest PG of all time on the floor with them. They both can't shoot and nothing you acquire will make up for that. Franz's defender will always harass Paolo and vice versa. They can't run PnR together I'm sure without even looking at stats. If you bring in a PG both their defenders will sag and just worsen your spacing issue.

I think you should be a little more open minded and realistic about their current situation. They can just click next week and not a single person outside of a minority of magic fans would be surprised.

[VFX]

I may be misunderstanding you but this doesn't seem to make sense. You have two guys who need the ball and your solution is to add yet another who needs the ball (a traditional floor general)?

So then you have Banchero and Wagner decline since as you say they are best with the ball in their hands.

Doesn't it seem like you're thinking about development while the team is thinking about winning now? They just traded 4 picks for Bane. Sacrificing something in-season for the sake of "I feel like Banchero should be better off ball" doesn't seem like it's reasonable advice. Maybe you just don't agree with this teams strategy in the big picture?

It only doesn’t make sense if you are unfamiliar with how Orlando’s offense is run.

Neither Paolo or Franz are efficient at making plays for anyone but themselves a majority of the time. This is why you see Bane struggling now with less touches.

It’s not like they are Cade averaging 9-10 assists per game while averaging 20+ points. They are individual playmakers that operate in isolation and aren’t terrific shooters.

You're measuring the playmaking ability of Banchero and Wagner within a warped experiment. Your team has had the most clogged paint in the NBA for a couple of years now - IIRC it was the worst offense (by shooting) for a playoff team in the past ten years.

Uh huh.

And why do you think that is? I see you are slowly putting the pieces together. You almost have it.

Suggs is a good shooter. Gary Harris, KCP, and Desmond Bane are good shooters. Wendell Carter isn’t abysmal for a Center.

So you either think Mosely isn’t capable of getting shooters into more open looks, or we are agreeing that they aren’t utilizing those two guys properly within a better system.

Surely you aren’t looking at their per game totals for the last 4 seasons and saying that they are going to turn a corner and become playmaking maestros and that a high volume shooter like Bane, in the fastest paced team offensively last season, is going to replicate similar numbers because “it just needs more time”. No, he’s getting the same amount of looks as those other guys because it’s the system.. obviously.

[meekrab]

If Bane forgets how to shoot in Orlando, I’ll be beside myself…