James Harden traded to the Rockets

[Guy986]

I'd think Martin starts, and OKC sacrifices some defence for offence, but it may be worth it, because they could quite possibly have one of the best outside shooting attacks in the game, adding a career 38% 3pt shooter alongside Durant, who shot 39% last season from beyond the arc. They could even go small & move Durant to the 4 for stretches, and bring Lamb or Sefolosha (who shot a career-high 43% from 3 last season) into the mix as well.

Westbrook
Martin
Durant
Ibaka
Perkins

Enough offence from the first 3 to offset the lack of scoring punch from ibaka and Perkins.

Martin must be salivating at the thought of the open looks he's going to get as the beneficiary of all the double teams Westbrook and Durant will garner. Must be an awesome feeling for a shooter.

Who scores off the bench for the thunder?

[luckynumber17]

I don't get how people think this is such a good deal for the Thunder. They got a worse version of Harden in Kevin Martin and the guy is always injured. Lamb has yet to prove that he can play in this league. I don't know what's going on, but ESPN and Yahoo! are reporting different draft picks that the Thunder got in the deal.

The Thunder lost in this deal because they lost their bench scoring. Harden is the clear cut third best SG in the league and the third best player on that team.

[smith2373]

Notice the transition...Harden becomes a starter & Martin becomes a bench player.

Will be surprised if Martin doesn't start.

[Krodis]

Notice the transition...Harden becomes a starter & Martin becomes a bench player.

Will be surprised if Martin doesn't start.

If they started Sefolosha over Harden, what would make you think they wouldn't start Sefolosha over Martin?

[Don Draper]

Harden is just as bad (if not worse) defensively so stop bringing that up. KMart is a great shooter from anywhere on the floor and he can be to the line (he even got to the line at a decent rate last year). What your saying is the equivalent of me saying all Harden can do is flop, hit spot up 3s off of Westbrook and KDs creation, and pass. Maybe the lockout effected him and not the rule changes (like it did for 80% of the league).

You are full of **** if you think Kevin Martin might be a better defender than Harden. Completely full of ****.

Secondly, what I am saying about Martin is based on what I watched last season. Ask any Rockets fan of this board or go to Clutchfans. His game clearly suffered b/c of the rule changes and this is a plain fact. The difference between you and I is actually watch Rockets games and you obviously (and understandably) don't. If you honestly think that rule changes affected Martin like it did 80% of the league you have no idea about his game. BTW your Harden comparison is silly.

You don't have to pretend to be an expert. It's okay not to know and this instance you obviously don't know.

[Rerisen]

Who scores off the bench for the thunder?

Even if Martin starts, it won't be that difficult to keep one of their top three scorers on the floor with the bench nearly at all times, with smart rotations.

[therealbig3]

According to defensive RAPM (negative is bad):

2011 Harden: -0.6
2011 Martin: -3.6

2012 Harden: -1.6
2012 Martin: -2.3

Martin measures out to be a clearly worse defensive player, with some of the biggest negative values I've ever seen from any player. That's Amare-level (or worse? ) bad. Yes, Harden is bad, but there are different degrees of bad, and Martin is clearly a lot worse.

And Harden destroys him as an offensive player.

[Kupchak9]

The question is who starts at PF for the Rockets.

[SCourGe OF GoD]

I'd think Martin starts, and OKC sacrifices some defence for offence, but it may be worth it, because they could quite possibly have one of the best outside shooting attacks in the game, adding a career 38% 3pt shooter alongside Durant, who shot 39% last season from beyond the arc. They could even go small & move Durant to the 4 for stretches, and bring Lamb or Sefolosha (who shot a career-high 43% from 3 last season) into the mix as well.

Westbrook
Martin
Durant
Ibaka
Perkins

Enough offence from the first 3 to offset the lack of scoring punch from ibaka and Perkins.

Martin must be salivating at the thought of the open looks he's going to get as the beneficiary of all the double teams Westbrook and Durant will garner. Must be an awesome feeling for a shooter.

Id think Kmart would be the scoring punch off the bench....doesnt make much sense to start him when you have Durant and Westbrook carrying the scoring load. Id have it like this ..

Westbrook|Maynor
Sefolosha|KMart
Durant|J.Lamb
Ibaka|PJIII
Perkins|Collinson

[smith2373]

Notice the transition...Harden becomes a starter & Martin becomes a bench player.

Will be surprised if Martin doesn't start.

If they started Sefolosha over Harden, what would make you think they wouldn't start Sefolosha over Martin?

Because Harden played better off the bench in OKC than he did as a starter? Also other than Harden they didn't have any bench scoring.

Lamb is at least a good scorer.

[TwentyOne920]

Whoever McHale thinks is the best. He's got at least five options.

Lin/Harden/Parsons is a nice offensive perimeter though

[Klomp]

50 page thread in 3 hours. Impressive!

EDIT: Make that 51!

[Guy986]

Harden is just as bad (if not worse) defensively so stop bringing that up. KMart is a great shooter from anywhere on the floor and he can be to the line (he even got to the line at a decent rate last year). What your saying is the equivalent of me saying all Harden can do is flop, hit spot up 3s off of Westbrook and KDs creation, and pass. Maybe the lockout effected him and not the rule changes (like it did for 80% of the league).

You are full of **** if you think Kevin Martin might be a better defender than Harden. Completely full of ****.

Secondly, what I am saying about Martin is based on what I watched last season. Ask any Rockets fan of this board or go to Clutchfans. His game clearly suffered b/c of the rule changes and this is a plain fact. The difference between you and I is actually watch Rockets games and you obviously (and understandably) don't. If you honestly think that rule changes affected Martin like it did 80% of the league you have no idea about his game. BTW your Harden comparison is silly.

You don't have to pretend to be an expert. It's okay not to know and this instance you obviously don't know.

At risk of looking like a douche, here's what i posted before the 2011 season when the rule change was announced. viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1141059

Kevin Martin went from a FT line champ and a shooter to just a shooter overnight.

[Don Draper]

I still can't believe people are co-signing Kevin Martin, a player who Rockets' fans have wanted traded for the last 2 seasons. I skeptical about how good Harden can be as the #1 but he's clearly an upgrade over Martin. Clearly.

[Klomp]

Because Harden played better off the bench in OKC than he did as a starter? Also other than Harden they didn't have any bench scoring.

Lamb is at least a good scorer.

Lamb is a rookie. He won't be counted on for major minutes.

Sefolosha starts, no question.

[Illogicality]

Houston is screwing up bad right now. Stocking up on unproven players.

OKC just added Jeremy Lamb and some protected picks?

[jrmaxino]

good. since Lin was struggling.
Lin needs to share the media attention to a much better player.


go go Rockets.

[Illogicality]

Martin has looked better than Harden in preseason

[Rerisen]

Finally, Harden is way better than Kevin Martin. I don't understand how people can debate this.

I want to see Harden perform as a #1 option without 2 All-NBA scorers on either side of him completely spacing the floor and stringing defenses out.

As much as I love fear-the-beard, he had an ideal situation in OKC. It's much tougher being the guy defenses focus on.

He was better with Westbrook and Durant on the bench.

Yes, but don't forget that time was against second units almost entirely.

Precisely because Harden was so suited for coming off the bench, where his playmaking could be utilized so much more, is a big reason whey they were never going to get their moneys worth out of him as a max player.

Paying him max would mean he would have to go into the starting lineup, but that would compromise the role he did so well for the bench unit, as well as reduce the time he would spend with the ball, which would be part of the reason he was earning a max deal in the first place.

Martin by comparsion, isn't paid to playmake because he can't to that level. But he can start and actually probably play more minutes next to KD and Westbrook, and still maximize what he is good at, simply shooting and scoring.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Lin/Harden is a solid young backcourt