NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

[Amish Mafioso]

''If they were white and hockey players they would be out there playing. If they were white and baseball players they would be out there playing,'' Kohlman said. ''Because most of them are actually African-American and are in a sport and precluded from doing it, they have to go into this absurd world of playing for one year.

This kind of jackassery really pisses me off. His entire argument seems to ignore the fact that the NBA also has white players, who are all subject to the same rules as everyone else in the NBA. The differences are between different sports, NOT between races, FFS. Stop trying to make every single damn issue a racial one. You embarrass yourself and everyone else.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the age limit, as it helps teams limit drafting blind. However, I'm fine with people not liking it, but pulling the race card is kinda pathetic, tbh.

[ALL HAIL]

The total absence of personal responsibility is truly amazing. Is it any wonder so much of black culture continues to be so badly plagued by self-destruction? When you refuse to take responsibility for the consequences of your own actions, you do not change your actions. When you do not change your actions, you get the same results, over and over again. Those results? Black-on-black crime, blacks killing blacks, an epidemic of single parents, high incarceration rates, etc.

Is that what you want? No? Then change your ways.

Quit blaming everyone but yourselves. Jesus...

I'm a Black dude, and I agree with much of what you're saying.

Black people should stop marching , stop protesting, and stop uttering the word racism.

We need to completely focus on ourselves.

I agree with you, but the difference between you and me is that I, at least, understand that unfair practices are are real and do, in fact, exist in a tangible way.

In my spirit, I can accept the truth of the existence of many unfair practices, yet, at the same time, I can agree with the general pragmatism of your post, however unempathetic it may come across.

Its racist garbage. The intent isn't to help, but to attack and demean. That sort of propaganda is incredibly destructive as it only enforces perceived inferiority. Groups that are oppressed and excluded generally have worse outcomes that those that aren't. An epidemic of single mothers? Sure, but check what those rates were for whites back in 1960 or 1970 and see what they are now.

You may be right about his intent, but if you just look at the words, he has a point.

Even with the reality of an unfair playing field, Black people, as a whole, do a lot to hurt ourselves.

His post, whatever his real intent may be, speaks to personal responsibility and accountabllity, and I for one would love for Black folks to march for that for a change.

As a result of 500 years of oppression, Black people suffer from a genuine post traumatic stress disease, but even though this may be true, there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for the many consistently ignorant acts that we do to hurt ourselves, and this is undeniable if you are truly looking at the situation objectively and without bias.

And I really don't care if a member of the Klan says it directly from his own mouth, to me, truth is truth.

If you could argue that, generally speaking, white people are "sick", you have to concede that Black people are equally as "sick", if not more.

Let's call a spade a spade.

[Roy The Natural]

How about talented 16 year olds then or 13? You complain about strawman tactics but don't seem to notice that there is an obvious and legitimate reason for an age limit.

Well, I think the natural thought would be, when you're an adult... you can make your own decisions and do what you want, so why can't you join the NBA at 18. Here's the bigger concern though, why are professional sports somehow worthy of quarantine from other highly specialized fields. What give athletes a pedestal to not meet basic and fairly minimal organizational standards, yet other specialized fields should have to jump through legislative and administrative hoops for their fields.

The legal system only acknowledges 18 year olds as a adults where they can legally be made accountable in the eyes of the law, it doesn't teach or prepare them for anything in life that most adults take a lifetime to learn and get right.

My point is that if the age limit is really the factor that holds back everyone's potentials, lower it to 16 or 13. The youngest Olympic record holder was 13 years old, if this was the norm why set an age limit?

The issue is maturity, most kids can't deal with real world problems in such an accelerated period of time and no amount of "tutoring" around them is going to help them deal with that. That's why most teenage prodigies burn themselves out. They hit a wall, they get stressed, they get tired, they can't deal with the media, they do stupid things etc. Mind you, this is only about prodigies who excel in individual events like swimming, gymnastics, piano etc. Imagine the chaos of working in a team environment and compound the problems by 10-20 times over. Or imagine Justin Bierber in the NBA

I am a believer in education and those who pursue it, it shows their commitment and maturity to plan their life, and is good insurance in case the NBA career gets cut short from injuries or doesn't pan out.

Oh I completely agree; college, Europe, d-league, these are all ways to get a young person out of their comfort zone and away from friends to see how they react and if they can handle it. A lot of people look at a young man with all sorts of physical attributes and just assume that's all it takes to function at an NBA level. As opposed to thizznation, I do care (somewhat) that the NBA has a commitment to making sure it's prospective employees have the maturity and mental capacity to not only function in the NBA, but not be complete public relations nightmares.

The late 90's and early 2000's were an absolutely awful time for NBA public relations, attempting to make strides in putting a product on the floor that doesn't alienate its fanbase is probably a sound and prudent notion, and the NBA should be applauded for it. I'm with you baki, I think that the NBA has made a good stand with its age implementation., and I see nothing wrong with it.

[ALL HAIL]

''If they were white and hockey players they would be out there playing. If they were white and baseball players they would be out there playing,'' Kohlman said. ''Because most of them are actually African-American and are in a sport and precluded from doing it, they have to go into this absurd world of playing for one year.

This kind of jackassery really pisses me off. His entire argument seems to ignore the fact that the NBA also has white players, who are all subject to the same rules as everyone else in the NBA. The differences are between different sports, NOT between races, FFS. Stop trying to make every single damn issue a racial one. You embarrass yourself and everyone else.

Yeah but aren't the number of white players so insignificant that you could see them as collateral damage?

Like a previous poster already shared, if a police department gives a disproportionate and severely unfair amount of tickets to Black people, it's still discriminatory, regardless of whether or not an insignificant amount of white people are given unfair tickets as well.

I hope you understand that, because the angle you are taking in this argument to dismiss unfair practices is severely overused, and, more importantly, very, very weak and poorly analyzed.

It's within your type of argument that people on the other side see yet another example of a "white guy" wrecklessly dismissing the "juggling elephant in the room" as if "amazing things" aren't happening before our very eyes.

[ALL HAIL]

NBA age limit is asinine and arbitrary.

You can serve and die for your country but you can't play professional basketball?

It would be nice to say that race isn't an issue here but truth be told the group of people this is affecting is probably at least 95% Black. This is what makes it a race issue.

So if a white mugger robs 4 black people and 3 white people in a month that means that it's a race issue?

Come on man, those numbers aren't even an accurate representation of the number of white players in the league.

Don't fudge numbers to make your point.

Tell the whole truth.

[Roy The Natural]

I'm a Black dude, and I agree with much of what you're saying.

Black people should stop marching , stop protesting, and stop uttering the word racism.

We need to completely focus on ourselves.

I agree with you, but the difference between you and me is that I, at least, understand that unfair practices are are real and do, in fact, exist in a tangible way.

In my spirit, I can accept the truth of the existence of many unfair practices, yet, at the same time, I can agree with the general pragmatism of your post, however unempathetic it may come across.

Its racist garbage. The intent isn't to help, but to attack and demean. That sort of propaganda is incredibly destructive as it only enforces perceived inferiority. Groups that are oppressed and excluded generally have worse outcomes that those that aren't. An epidemic of single mothers? Sure, but check what those rates were for whites back in 1960 or 1970 and see what they are now.

You my be right about his intent, but if you just look at the words, he has a point.

Even with the reality of an unfair playing field, Black people, as a whole, do a lot to hurt ourselves.

His post, whatever his real intent may be, speaks to personal responsibility and accountabllity, and I for one would love for Black folks to march for that for a change.

As a result of 500 years of oppression, Black people suffer from a genuine post traumatic stress disease, but even though this may be true, there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for the many consistently ignorant acts that we do to hurt ourselves, and this is undeniable if you are truly looking at the situation objectively and without bias.

And I really don't care if a member of the Klan says it directly from his mouth, to me, truth is truth.

If you could argue that, generally speaking, white people are "sick", you have to concede that Black people are equally as "sick", if not more.

Let's call a spade a spade.

I think it's safe to say that humanity as a whole is pretty sick. 100 years ago at this moment, the continent of Europe was ripping itself apart, and washing itself in the blood of 37 million young men. Only 20 years later that toll would double with an estimated 80 million casualties. All of this over what... this world is insane. Africa, and the middle-east can't stop murdering each other to this day.... yea....

[thizznation]

NBA age limit is asinine and arbitrary.

You can serve and die for your country but you can't play professional basketball?

It would be nice to say that race isn't an issue here but truth be told the group of people this is affecting is probably at least 95% Black. This is what makes it a race issue.

So if a white mugger robs 4 black people and 3 white people in a month that means that it's a race issue?

Come on man, those numbers aren't even an accurate representation of the number of white players in the league.

Don't fudge numbers to make your point.

Tell the whole truth.

You are right, the league is not 95% black. The potential players that are trying to come right out of highschool are 95% black. If you want to sit here and start rifling off some non black players who jumped directly from highschool to the NBA then I'm all ears, but I will not hold my breath.

[Roy The Natural]

NBA age limit is asinine and arbitrary.

You can serve and die for your country but you can't play professional basketball?

It would be nice to say that race isn't an issue here but truth be told the group of people this is affecting is probably at least 95% Black. This is what makes it a race issue.

So if a white mugger robs 4 black people and 3 white people in a month that means that it's a race issue?

Come on man, those numbers aren't even an accurate representation of the number of white players in the league.

Don't fudge numbers to make your point.

Tell the whole truth.

The number of white players in the NBA hovers around just under 20%... a far cry from the made up statistic of 5% that a poster threw out. To put that into perspective, their is a larger percentage of white players in the NBA, than there is of black people in America. At nearly a 5th of the NBA community, I would say you're far past the point of collateral damage.

[ALL HAIL]

So if a white mugger robs 4 black people and 3 white people in a month that means that it's a race issue?

Come on man, those numbers aren't even an accurate representation of the number of white players in the league.

Don't fudge numbers to make your point.

Tell the whole truth.

You are right, the league is not 95% black. The potential players that are trying to come right out of highschool are 95% black. If you want to sit here and start rifling off some non black players who jumped directly from highschool to the NBA then I'm all ears, but I will not hold my breath.

No sir. Your numbers are accurate.

Chosen's are not. His whole mugger argument is typical of your average political debate--spewing numbers to fit a narrative.

Three out of seven NBA players are not white--embellishing at it's finest.

[thizznation]

I'm gonna try to explain this one more time folks.

How many non-black players come directly out of highschool into the NBA at age 18? The percentage is probably 5% or very close to that figure.


The majority of 18 year olds coming directly out of highschool into the NBA are black

[ALL HAIL]

I would definitely call under twenty percent collateral damage.

Matter of fact though, as the poster above just outlined, if you look closer, when talking STRICTLY about the percentage of non-Black guys who come into the league under twenty years old, that 20% becomes increasingly and significantly less.

The reality, whether you choose to accept it or not, is that the number of non-Black people who are affected by the age limit rule is an insignificant amount.

Collateral damage is the perfect word.

[Roy The Natural]

I would definitely call under twenty percent collateral damage.

Matter of fact though, as the poster above just outlined, if you look closer, when talking STRICTLY about the percentage of non-Black guys who come into the league under twenty years old, that 20% becomes increasingly and significantly less.

The reality, whether you choose to accept it or not, is that the number of non-Black people who are affected by the age limit rule is an insignificant amount.

Collateral damage is the perfect word.

Either way... I highly doubt race was the motivator... go take a look at that list of highschool-to-nba players. It's filled with all sorts of trouble.

DeShawn Stevenson, Kobe, Jermaine, Rashard, Kwame, Eddy Curry, Darius Miles, Swift, Bynum, Telfair, Josh Smith, JR Smith...

There's a ridiculously high rate of players who either flamed out of the NBA, or have been in some form of major trouble. The list reads like a directory of players that make NBA fans cringe. I think reading that list, in and of itself pretty much justifies that the NBA has some credence in upping the age limit a year.

[thizznation]

A few bad apples shouldn't ruin it for the rest of them.

On the opposite end of the spectrum look what highschool to NBA has given us.

Darryl Dawkins, Kevin Garnett, Jermaine O'Neal, Tracy McGrady, Rashard Lewis, Tyson Chandler, Amare Stoudemire, LeBron James, Dwight Howard, Monta Ellis...

[Edrees]

Just because the affected demographic is one race doesn't mean the rule was made with racist intent. You'd need proof for that. If best buy treated me with poor customer service and I said I hate best buy and I will never shop there again, would it make me sexist against men if it so happened that most their employees were men? Come on guys.

That being said, I'm against any sort of age limit for pro basketball. If someone wants to make millions doing what they are good at and nobody is getting hurt I'm not one to stop them.

[RealRapsFan]

How many white players were drafted without playing at least a year after high school?

So using the same argument, since we see in hockey and baseball white players are out there playing directly from high school, the previous system in the NBA must have been racist against whites!

[Yoshun]

Just because the affected demographic is one race doesn't mean the rule was made with racist intent. You'd need proof for that. If best buy treated me with poor customer service and I said I hate best buy and I will never shop there again, would it make me sexist against men if it so happened that most their employees were men? Come on guys.

That being said, I'm against any sort of age limit for pro basketball. If someone wants to make millions doing what they are good at and nobody is getting hurt I'm not one to stop them.

No, but that's a completely different issue. You're not a large coorporation making rules for it's entire company, mostly effecting 80 percent of your work force. You're some guy choosing not to shop at a store because you got bad customers service.

[Brandon-Clyde]

A lot of claims that the(mostly white) NHL has no age limit thus proving the NBA's age limit is racist but is that the truth?
Let us take a look at the official NHL rule on the matter

All players age 19 or older [(i) any player who will be age 18 on or before September 15 in the year in which such Entry Draft is held, or (ii) reaches his 19th birthday between September 16 and December 31, both dates included, next following

http://www.nhl.com/ice/page.htm?id=26377
Looks like an age limit to me

[Shot Clock]

I love how they compare the NBA to the NHL and Baseball like it's apples to apples. If the NBA had the same structure in place (farm teams and contract flexibility) as these other leagues then an 18 year old wouldn't be an issue.

Would the NBAPA every agree to 2-way contracts? Lets look at the NHL. You are 18 and not a 'sure thing', you need some work. You get signed to the standard NHL contract for new players "Entry Level 2 way contract for 3 years". The contract would look something like NBA max $925k plus bonuses/$70k Minors contract plus bonuses. So a Johnathan Bender comes into the league and a team takes a gamble on him. They realize he isn't ready and assigned him to the minors where they only pay him $70k instead of close to a million. (and that's assuming a maximum deal that even a Lebron James would sign)The team decides they want to see what he can do so they bring him up for 9 games and decide to send him back for the rest of the season. Since he didn't play the threshold limit of 10 games that season his contract 'slides' and it extends another year under the same terms.

Can you imagine any case where the players association agrees to this? Neither can I. So they can stop crying racism when 18 year old kids in a predominantly white sport are faced with considerably worse conditions.

I'd love to see this kind of system in the NBA. One where your team has a farm system under it that a fan could look to for hope. One that would open up even more possibilities for a team to build from. It would also increase the NBA exposure in these cities more then the development league does.

[Yoshun]

How many white players were drafted without playing at least a year after high school?

So using the same argument, since we see in hockey and baseball white players are out there playing directly from high school, the previous system in the NBA must have been racist against whites!

That's not the same argument.

[Neutral 123]

Sounds like a healthcare issue to me, not much to do with the NBA. His mom should have affordable and practical healthcare to take care of her, and when the time comes DeMar can pay off all her bills with that money. Extrapolating a complete failure of this countries healthcare system unto the NBA draft rules seems like quite a reach to me.

18 years old, die for your country, but no professional basketball, please.

I was in the military man... you don't have to tell me that. As a previous poster stated, I was required to do quite a bit before actually doing anything in the field. Most people will have to go through 6-9 months of training overall before they are eligible for deployment... so going through a year of college before the NBA really isn't that far off.

Having to actually go to college before going to the NBA is a far less egregious issue than having to wait for 3 years to drink alcohol after joining.

This argument still makes no sense. College basketball is a huge revenue maker. Players are legally robbed of their fair share of that revenue. Their skills are good enough to earn them some sort of income already. They've been in 'training' for years already.