ESPN's 'The Last Dance' -- ongoing discussion

[Klayforspicy]

You cant dominate that much AND be happy go lucky on court. Its one or the other.

[Sprewell4Three]

My biggest takeaway from the series so far is Pippen was a huge diva and not very likable.

agreed - over the years Pippen's legacy has grown to the point that he's now a little overrated. While he was a great player in many ways and absolutely integral to the Bulls' championship teams, he was also kind of a mentally soft guy who was never cut out to be the leader of a successful team and who benefitted a lot more from playing with MJ than really gets talked about today.

But tell that to the Jordan haters who claim if it wasn't for Pippen, MJ would have never won a championship lol!
People seem to forget that Pippen was kinda of this shy kid when he first came into the league. But Jordan haters say that MJ didn't start winning until Pippen got there!

Remember this?

Watch on YouTube

[trickshot]

SMH at Karl. How do you wait till you're 3 games down before you even think of trying your DPOY on the other team's best player? The thought that you dont want to tire him should have at least gone out the window after 2 games. Was questionable even without hindsight

[Sedale Threatt]

You cant dominate that much AND be happy go lucky on court. Its one or the other.

I don't buy this at all. That's how Jordan did it, because that was his personality. As we saw in that scene where he's trying to see who can roll a quarter closest to a wall with his security guys, this was a person who took sincere delight in winning literal change in a kid's game despite being worth hundreds of millions. His will to dominate permeated every aspect of his life.

But somebody like Tim Duncan had one of the most successful individual and team careers in NBA history while being, by all accounts, shockingly down to earth and well-adjusted. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson and Bill Russell were also supreme competitors and could certainly be testy, but I haven't read anything about them even remotely resembling Jordan's sheer maliciousness. Getting into college basketball, mild-mannered, gentlemanly Dean Smith didn't need to abuse people like Bobby Knight to win championships.

Jordan has one saving grace in this area: The results were spectacular, across the board. But it's not a requirement.

[The Rodzilla]

bill wennington has Stockholm syndrome

[Slava]

People keep talking about the players going soft but the NBA media these days has nothing on those dudes. Jerry Krause walks in for pre-playoffs press conference, the first reporter calls him a backstabber to his face. Bam! Presser over.

Imagine anyone doing that to Daryl Morey out of fear he won't stop by their podcast ever again.

[nas27]

My biggest takeaway from the series so far is Pippen was a huge diva and not very likable.

Agree and disagree. Yes, he seems like a diva but no, he was actually beloved by his teammates. They all say how much they loved playing with him and he actually offset Jordan's intensity.

[Sedale Threatt]

My biggest takeaway from the series so far is Pippen was a huge diva and not very likable.

Agree and disagree. Yes, he seems like a diva but no, he was actually beloved by his teammates. They all say how much they loved playing with him and he actually offset Jordan's intensity.

I don't get that sense at all, even with the diva thing. In one particular game, he had a momentary lapse of reason that is completely out of character over a long, distinguished career in which he was almost universally well-liked and respected. Most everything else stemmed from his resentment over being drastically underpaid by management. Which, hey, if I was a starter on the Dream Team and only the 120-something paid player in the NBA, I'd be a little irritated too.

[Sedale Threatt]

But tell that to the Jordan haters who claim if it wasn't for Pippen, MJ would have never won a championship lol! People seem to forget that Pippen was kinda of this shy kid when he first came into the league. But Jordan haters say that MJ didn't start winning until Pippen got there!

Jordan says it, too.

"Whenever they speak Michael Jordan, they should speak Scottie Pippen. Everybody says I won all these championships. But I didn't win without Scottie Pippen. That's why I consider him my greatest teammate of all-time.”

[Lakers In 5]

Read on Twitter

This has been the best clip of the entire documentary thus far. I don't know how they'll top this in the final two episodes. This is what set Mike apart, even from the likes of Magic and Larry, and it's why he's idolized by millions to this day. Very powerful.

[The Rodzilla]

My biggest takeaway from the series so far is Pippen was a huge diva and not very likable.

Pippen was correct, this was a straight up disrespect move to have him inbound the ball

the Jordon industrial complex cant allow pippen to win the game for the bulls or win the series, that would impact sales

[The Rodzilla]

they tried to make it look like scott burrells big game was because of Jordon

they have no shame

[Lakers In 5]

My biggest takeaway from the series so far is Pippen was a huge diva and not very likable.

Pippen was correct, this was a straight up disrespect move to have him inbound the ball

the Jordon industrial complex cant allow pippen to win the game for the bulls or win the series, that would impact sales

[Collymore]

Will Gary Payton ever recover from episode 8?

[carrrnuttt]

You cant dominate that much AND be happy go lucky on court. Its one or the other.

I don't buy this at all. That's how Jordan did it, because that was his personality. As we saw in that scene where he's trying to see who can roll a quarter closest to a wall with his security guys, this was a person who took sincere delight in winning literal change in a kid's game despite being worth hundreds of millions. His will to dominate permeated every aspect of his life.

But somebody like Tim Duncan had one of the most successful individual and team careers in NBA history while being, by all accounts, shockingly down to earth and well-adjusted. Larry Bird and Magic Johnson and Bill Russell were also supreme competitors and could certainly be testy, but I haven't read anything about them even remotely resembling Jordan's sheer maliciousness. Getting into college basketball, mild-mannered, gentlemanly Dean Smith didn't need to abuse people like Bobby Knight to win championships.

Jordan has one saving grace in this area: The results were spectacular, across the board. But it's not a requirement.

I don't think the two are directly related. MJ may be the GOAT but there's other legends that are better leaders but winners as well. Not a one thing or the other situation.

TD almost won almost as many titles as MJ and was the polar opposite. Was he not competitive? Seems to me like people want to make that as an excuse yet it doesn't hold up since by a lot of accounts he was a dick after his playing days as well. Does he not tip in restaurants because he's so competitive?

Seems like the majority of people who laud MJ's personality are for the most part people that never met him ( and Ahmad Rashad).

It's all about balance.

MJ's style worked because Phil's Zen-style helped contrast against it.

TD's style worked because Pop is a killer.

I would argue that Krause had slightly less to do with the Bull's success, because no matter what teammate they gave Jordan, he'd either make them into at least serviceable basketball players, or make them quit.

TD had an excellent front office that pulled in players that suited well with him, and Pop gave them the right roles in the right positions to succeed. So all Duncan had to do was be himself.

[Sedale Threatt]

It's all about balance.

MJ's style worked because Phil's Zen-style helped contrast against it.

TD's style worked because Pop is a killer.

I would argue that Krause had slightly less to do with the Bull's success, because no matter what teammate they gave Jordan, he'd either make them into at least serviceable basketball players, or make them quit.

TD had an excellent front office that pulled in players that suited well with him, and Pop gave them the right roles in the right positions to succeed. So all Duncan had to do was be himself.

TD's style worked because he's one of the best players in the history of this game and his organization did a good job surrounding him with the right pieces. He would have been every bit as successful under Phil Jackson as he was Popovich.

The bottom line is, you don't have to be an ass hole to win.

[Air Apparent]

lol at rodzilla's posts

man is on a serious mission

[Sedale Threatt]

lol at rodzilla's posts

man is on a serious mission

[TheFinishSniper]

Man. The thing I almost forgot is that Jordan was already considered as the GOAT after his first three-peat.

Then he went on and repeated it again.That's just unparalleled.

He was considered GOAT before he even won a first ring! But then you still had haters of this world how he can't lead team to winning title despite his scoring and defensive accolades. Passing Detroit and winning against Magic and Lakers just sealed those mouths. Now he was there. Now it wasnt anymore about can MJ win a ring and lead team to title, it was more can Bulls be dynasty (three-peat) like Celtics and Lakers of the past. And then he go did it basically twice.

[Run DLC]

I’ll take MJ’s no nonsense approach every day over LeBron’s happy-go-lucky approach.