NBAPA Lawyer: Double standard exists regarding age limit for black basketball players and white athletes in other sports

[wigglestrue]

So if a white mugger robs 4 black people and 3 white people in a month that means that it's a race issue?

Come on man, those numbers aren't even an accurate representation of the number of white players in the league.

Don't fudge numbers to make your point.

Tell the whole truth.

You are right, the league is not 95% black. The potential players that are trying to come right out of highschool are 95% black. If you want to sit here and start rifling off some non black players who jumped directly from highschool to the NBA then I'm all ears, but I will not hold my breath.

Are white people dropping the tribal ball by not raising a stink about the disparate impact baseball's exploitative minor league system has on poor white athletes drafted out of high school? Or are all of us being racist by not giving a fraction of a **** about their fates? But then is it not racist for us to sort other human beings by race into priority lists in the first place? If the racist age limit were abolished and the NBA developed a minor league system mirroring the size and structure of MLB's, with the same degree of rampant exploitation, except instead of scores of pimply-faced white rubes drafted every year and guaranteed to flame out without other career prospects it's scores and scores of pimply-faced black dudes, would the resulting institution not then also be decried as racist, i.e., a no-win double bind to match the supposed double standard?

[Neutral 123]

I'm a Black dude, and I agree with much of what you're saying.

Black people should stop marching , stop protesting, and stop uttering the word racism.

We need to completely focus on ourselves.

I agree with you, but the difference between you and me is that I, at least, understand that unfair practices are are real and do, in fact, exist in a tangible way.

In my spirit, I can accept the truth of the existence of many unfair practices, yet, at the same time, I can agree with the general pragmatism of your post, however unempathetic it may come across.

Its racist garbage. The intent isn't to help, but to attack and demean. That sort of propaganda is incredibly destructive as it only enforces perceived inferiority. Groups that are oppressed and excluded generally have worse outcomes that those that aren't. An epidemic of single mothers? Sure, but check what those rates were for whites back in 1960 or 1970 and see what they are now.

You may be right about his intent, but if you just look at the words, he has a point.

Even with the reality of an unfair playing field, Black people, as a whole, do a lot to hurt ourselves.

His post, whatever his real intent may be, speaks to personal responsibility and accountabllity, and I for one would love for Black folks to march for that for a change.

As a result of 500 years of oppression, Black people suffer from a genuine post traumatic stress disease, but even though this may be true, there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for the many consistently ignorant acts that we do to hurt ourselves, and this is undeniable if you are truly looking at the situation objectively and without bias.

And I really don't care if a member of the Klan says it directly from his own mouth, to me, truth is truth.

If you could argue that, generally speaking, white people are "sick", you have to concede that Black people are equally as "sick", if not more.

Let's call a spade a spade.

Change to what? The problem is society is sick, and blacks will be more negatively affected by these same sicknesses. This is a violent, sexist, materialistic society, so it is no surprise we see some of the things we do. Whites did not pull themselves up by the bootstraps. The wealth of the white middle class was created through a massive, historic, welfare program. As long as this remains a blacks just need to be better people narrative, nothing will change. It is the very excuse being used to deny any real change.

Sorry an abuser will always be sicker than the abused, and while they both need help, the narrative is a dishonest one that shouldn't be embraced and conceded.

[Neutral 123]

It's just dumb. I don't even know why people are comparing other jobs to basketball, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Hello? Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James, Moses Malone, Dwight Howard. These kids could play ball with the big boys, let them play. Does anyone know what the official reasoning for the 19 year old rule really is? Is it to "keep the quality of play"? If that is the case what's up with what the 76ers and the Knicks been rolling out for a few years now. Is it to protect the stupid owners who can't keep their hands off any 7 foot athlete no matter what the warning signs are and end up with huge busts? Is it to force these ultra talented kids to partake in the NCAA Multi Million Dollar industry? Does NCAA need their cut before the cow goes to the NBA? What is the official reasoning for the arbitrary 19 year old cut off?

How about talented 16 year olds then or 13? You complain about strawman tactics but don't seem to notice that there is an obvious and legitimate reason for an age limit.

You are an adult at 18. We aren't talking about arbitrary numbers here.

[Shot Clock]

It's just dumb. I don't even know why people are comparing other jobs to basketball, it's like comparing apples to oranges. Hello? Kobe Bryant, Kevin Garnett, LeBron James, Moses Malone, Dwight Howard. These kids could play ball with the big boys, let them play. Does anyone know what the official reasoning for the 19 year old rule really is? Is it to "keep the quality of play"? If that is the case what's up with what the 76ers and the Knicks been rolling out for a few years now. Is it to protect the stupid owners who can't keep their hands off any 7 foot athlete no matter what the warning signs are and end up with huge busts? Is it to force these ultra talented kids to partake in the NCAA Multi Million Dollar industry? Does NCAA need their cut before the cow goes to the NBA? What is the official reasoning for the arbitrary 19 year old cut off?

How about talented 16 year olds then or 13? You complain about strawman tactics but don't seem to notice that there is an obvious and legitimate reason for an age limit.

You are an adult at 18. We aren't talking about arbitrary numbers here.

But not all adults can even drink legally in the USA.

[Neutral 123]

How come people are not this out raged about the NFLs age rule? Same principal in my opnion. I think the league has the age limit to create a better product and a lot of people (blacks and whites) agree with that point of view. Racism does exist but not everything has to be about race.

Because this isn't the thread for that. That's one messed up sport, that's for sure.

[Neutral 123]

How about talented 16 year olds then or 13? You complain about strawman tactics but don't seem to notice that there is an obvious and legitimate reason for an age limit.

You are an adult at 18. We aren't talking about arbitrary numbers here.

But not all adults can even drink legally in the USA.

And that might be worth fighting, but certainly unrelated to someone's right to earn a living. The NBA is supposed to be merit based. If a guys good enough to play, let him play. Don't push him into the exploitative NCAA system. Actually that's the more egregious situation.

[wigglestrue]

Its racist garbage. The intent isn't to help, but to attack and demean. That sort of propaganda is incredibly destructive as it only enforces perceived inferiority. Groups that are oppressed and excluded generally have worse outcomes that those that aren't. An epidemic of single mothers? Sure, but check what those rates were for whites back in 1960 or 1970 and see what they are now.

You may be right about his intent, but if you just look at the words, he has a point.

Even with the reality of an unfair playing field, Black people, as a whole, do a lot to hurt ourselves.

His post, whatever his real intent may be, speaks to personal responsibility and accountabllity, and I for one would love for Black folks to march for that for a change.

As a result of 500 years of oppression, Black people suffer from a genuine post traumatic stress disease, but even though this may be true, there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for the many consistently ignorant acts that we do to hurt ourselves, and this is undeniable if you are truly looking at the situation objectively and without bias.

And I really don't care if a member of the Klan says it directly from his own mouth, to me, truth is truth.

If you could argue that, generally speaking, white people are "sick", you have to concede that Black people are equally as "sick", if not more.

Let's call a spade a spade.

Change to what? The problem is society is sick, and blacks will be more negatively affected by these same sicknesses. This is a violent, sexist, materialistic society, so it is no surprise we see some of the things we do. Whites did not pull themselves up by the bootstraps. The wealth of the white middle class was created through a massive, historic, welfare program. As long as this remains a blacks just need to be better people narrative, nothing will change. It is the very excuse being used to deny any real change.

Sorry an abuser will always be sicker than the abused, and while they both need help, the narrative is a dishonest one that shouldn't be embraced and conceded.

How was the wealth of the black middle class created? Who created it for whom? Those black people, for themselves? Or was it granted to them out of charity? Has there not been a massive, historic welfare program called "welfare" which, contrary to common perceptions -- perceptions fueled by that "ratesism" phenomenon I mentioned above -- has been used the most by white people...most of whom nevertheless continue to be stuck in a cycle of poverty both economic and cultural? How was the poverty of poor white people created, who created it, and when?

When you say "abuser", do you mean white people as a whole? White people are disproportionately more abusive and therefore sicker? Like, collectively?

[DemoleDemolezan]

Who knows if they are all racist. The common attack against Al is that his is a 'race baiter', not that he mishandled a funeral, or called someone a 'homo'. Yes, that stuff might be in poor taste if true, but the issue here is that he is a voice for racial oppression, and a lot of people don't like that.

Using someone's funeral as a venue to promote yourself and calling gay people homos "might" be in poor taste? No, idiot, they are most definitely in "poor taste". And they are absolutely true. And guess what, the funeral accusation was made by black people. But, remember according to you and that other guy black people can't be racist lol.
Yes, a common complaint against Sharpton is race baiting but an equally common complaint is that he uses these situations to shamelessly promote himself and profit. The latter point is why many black people don't like him nor take him seriously. Yet, you speak about him with absolute reverence. You are a very strange person.

What's funny is, is that you believe yourself to be an authority on anything regarding this issue. I'm just humouring myself. None of what you've posted is relevant, makes sense, and frankly, its a good thing you aren't aware enough to even recognize that. I'm genuinely embarrassed for you.

You are a creepy dude who calls Al Sharpton a freedom fighter who does "God's Work". You need your head checked. I would love to know how stating verifiable facts about Sharpton while debating his impact and credibility is not relevant... Seriously, how the hell is that not relevant? If anything you are acting like some self-appointed point of authority/creepy spokesperson for Sharpton. I am simply pointing out well-known facts about him.

[DemoleDemolezan]

I see more racism in your posts than I do most any others on here. You have generalized half of whites as sociopaths, stated that whites are incapable of understanding the issues, stated that white supremacy runs deep in the USA and in this last post unless I am misreading you called blacks who disagree with you by the racially derogatory term "uncle Tom".
If a person looks for slights everywhere they will find slights everywhere. My guess is such a person who if entering a store is immediately greeted by the employees will claim the reason is that the employees want to keep an eye on them in case they try and steal but that same person will also be offended if no employee greets them will claim that is also a slight because they are being ignored. A can't win situation for the employees. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't

Oh and one of your links was Cracked.com. Don't expect it to be taken seriously

I do think around half of whites in the US are pretty much sociopaths incapable of empathy. We can go kill a million plus people in a country like Vietnam or Iraq and they whine about a few thousand of our troops dying and how bad that is. Let's face it America is a cold ass place. Look at all the cops, judges, prosecutors, and city officials in Ferguson - siccing dogs on black people, falsely arresting them, sending racist emails, congratulating each other for ruining poor peoples' lives. This happens all over America, every day.

The white supremacy embedded in America's psyche is very real. I understand that you and others like you don't see it - fine but that's a pretty absurd position. Do I have to give a history lesson here?

I do call blacks who support white supremacy Uncle Toms. I don't think that's racist - it's a brilliant analysis by Malcolm X about how a group that is powerless has a few members who decide to "switch sides". The Uncle Ruckus syndrome is real - I'm not angry at people who have it but yes black self hatred is a "thing".

Go ahead and google the racism studies. Read the mother jones article. The science is pretty much accepted now by neurologists.

I agree about not looking for sleights all the time. I don't.

50% of white Americans are sociopaths? Really? I hope you are being hyperbolic or speaking figuratively.....

[prophet_of_rage]

Anybody who doesn't see this as a ploy to gain headline attention is not paying attention to the NBA. You had the NBA scrambling to get rid of Sterling and then Danny Ferry dropped the African bomb. This is just a reminder that the NBA isn't racially neutral and an effort to use that to frame the argument.

[wigglestrue]

I wouldn't be all that surprised if a study capable of determining such a thing found that half of all white people were sociopaths. Thing is, we should then expect more or less the same percentage of black people to be sociopaths, too. I do kind of get the sense that Black Jack would estimate a much, much lower percentage of black sociopathy, in which case Black Jack would be a racist, not quite unmitigated, but close.

[cl2117]

You may be right about his intent, but if you just look at the words, he has a point.

Even with the reality of an unfair playing field, Black people, as a whole, do a lot to hurt ourselves.

His post, whatever his real intent may be, speaks to personal responsibility and accountabllity, and I for one would love for Black folks to march for that for a change.

As a result of 500 years of oppression, Black people suffer from a genuine post traumatic stress disease, but even though this may be true, there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for the many consistently ignorant acts that we do to hurt ourselves, and this is undeniable if you are truly looking at the situation objectively and without bias.

And I really don't care if a member of the Klan says it directly from his own mouth, to me, truth is truth.

If you could argue that, generally speaking, white people are "sick", you have to concede that Black people are equally as "sick", if not more.

Let's call a spade a spade.

I've been meaning to ask, I don't know if you mentioned it before, but why do you always capitalize Black and not other races?

Not trying to start anything, just curious as I haven't seen it before. I know you referenced it before, but I didn't catch an explanation.

[Neutral 123]

Using someone's funeral as a venue to promote yourself and calling gay people homos "might" be in poor taste? No, idiot, they are most definitely in "poor taste". And they are absolutely true. And guess what, the funeral accusation was made by black people. But, remember according to you and that other guy black people can't be racist lol.
Yes, a common complaint against Sharpton is race baiting but an equally common complaint is that he uses these situations to shamelessly promote himself and profit. The latter point is why many black people don't like him nor take him seriously. Yet, you speak about him with absolute reverence. You are a very strange person.

What's funny is, is that you believe yourself to be an authority on anything regarding this issue. I'm just humouring myself. None of what you've posted is relevant, makes sense, and frankly, its a good thing you aren't aware enough to even recognize that. I'm genuinely embarrassed for you.

You are a creepy dude who calls Al Sharpton a freedom fighter who does "God's Work". You need your head checked. I would love to know how stating verifiable facts about Sharpton while debating his impact and credibility is not relevant... Seriously, how the hell is that not relevant? If anything you are acting like some self-appointed point of authority/creepy spokesperson for Sharpton. I am simply pointing out well-known facts about him.

Yeah, this is off topic.

[Neutral 123]

I wouldn't be all that surprised if a study capable of determining such a thing found that half of all white people were sociopaths. Thing is, we should then expect more or less the same percentage of black people to be sociopaths, too. I do kind of get the sense that Black Jack would estimate a much, much lower percentage of black sociopathy, in which case Black Jack would be a racist, not quite unmitigated, but close.

Determined to be racist by whom? Sociopaths see their condition as a strength. I'd expect whites to wear their sociopathy as a badge of honour and proof of superiority.

[Neutral 123]

You may be right about his intent, but if you just look at the words, he has a point.

Even with the reality of an unfair playing field, Black people, as a whole, do a lot to hurt ourselves.

His post, whatever his real intent may be, speaks to personal responsibility and accountabllity, and I for one would love for Black folks to march for that for a change.

As a result of 500 years of oppression, Black people suffer from a genuine post traumatic stress disease, but even though this may be true, there is absolutely NO EXCUSE for the many consistently ignorant acts that we do to hurt ourselves, and this is undeniable if you are truly looking at the situation objectively and without bias.

And I really don't care if a member of the Klan says it directly from his own mouth, to me, truth is truth.

If you could argue that, generally speaking, white people are "sick", you have to concede that Black people are equally as "sick", if not more.

Let's call a spade a spade.

Change to what? The problem is society is sick, and blacks will be more negatively affected by these same sicknesses. This is a violent, sexist, materialistic society, so it is no surprise we see some of the things we do. Whites did not pull themselves up by the bootstraps. The wealth of the white middle class was created through a massive, historic, welfare program. As long as this remains a blacks just need to be better people narrative, nothing will change. It is the very excuse being used to deny any real change.

Sorry an abuser will always be sicker than the abused, and while they both need help, the narrative is a dishonest one that shouldn't be embraced and conceded.

How was the wealth of the black middle class created? Who created it for whom? Those black people, for themselves? Or was it granted to them out of charity? Has there not been a massive, historic welfare program called "welfare" which, contrary to common perceptions -- perceptions fueled by that "ratesism" phenomenon I mentioned above -- has been used the most by white people...most of whom nevertheless continue to be stuck in a cycle of poverty both economic and cultural? How was the poverty of poor white people created, who created it, and when?

When you say "abuser", do you mean white people as a whole? White people are disproportionately more abusive and therefore sicker? Like, collectively?

The level of economic mobility in the U.S is embarrassingly low. So no, it isn't impossible for an individual to move up the economic ladder, it is just very difficult, and right now, that's by design. There is likely no set of programs that will lift everyone out of poverty, however, the type of welfare that created the white middle class was purposefully withheld from blacks. Its time for America to start correcting her wrongs. Right now she continues to deprive and steal from blacks like what we see in Ferguson. Ferguson is America, America is Ferguson.

[Rip It]

The total absence of personal responsibility is truly amazing. Is it any wonder so much of black culture continues to be so badly plagued by self-destruction? When you refuse to take responsibility for the consequences of your own actions, you do not change your actions. When you do not change your actions, you get the same results, over and over again. Those results? Black-on-black crime, blacks killing blacks, an epidemic of single parents, high incarceration rates, etc.

Is that what you want? No? Then change your ways.

Quit blaming everyone but yourselves. Jesus...

I'm a Black dude, and I agree with much of what you're saying.

Black people should stop marching , stop protesting, and stop uttering the word racism.

We need to completely focus on ourselves.

I agree with you, but the difference between you and me is that I, at least, understand that unfair practices are are real and do, in fact, exist in a tangible way.

In my spirit, I can accept the truth of the existence of many unfair practices, yet, at the same time, I can agree with the general pragmatism of your post, however unempathetic it may come across.

Its racist garbage. The intent isn't to help, but to attack and demean. That sort of propaganda is incredibly destructive as it only enforces perceived inferiority. Groups that are oppressed and excluded generally have worse outcomes that those that aren't. An epidemic of single mothers? Sure, but check what those rates were for whites back in 1960 or 1970 and see what they are now.

Your argument essentially boils down to: "It's not our fault we can't take personal responsibility. It's the white man's fault." You refuse to take personal responsibility for your refusal to take personal responsibility.

That, my friend, is utterly pathetic.

I'm not denying there's still a degree of racism in America.

Clearly, there are some blatant, unabashed racists in America. However, these people are a small minority, a much smaller minority than African Americans I suspect, and are generally viewed with disgust by non-unabashed racists. These people hold little-to-no power in society, and are not holding African Americans back.

There is a second level of racism in America, subconscious racism. Those people who aren't outright hateful of blacks, yet, in the back of their minds, view black people differently.

Here's the cold, hard truth about subconscious racism: Much of it is justified. The subconscious mind is the part of the mind not filtered by P.C. nonsense; it's that part of our minds that knows black culture is a culture of high crime rates and violence.

What I'm telling you, is that you need to quit pretending all of white America are card-carrying members of the KKK, going out of their way to hold you down. That has no basis in reality, and is only giving you a cop-out excuse to not look at the real problem.

What I'm telling you, is the real problem is that black cultures promotes subconscious racism in otherwise fair-minded people. That will only change when black culture changes. We've come full circle, right back to the original point: That black people need to take responsibility for their own self-destructive actions.

It's that simple. Quit over-complicating things with delusional nonsense. Accept personal responsibility. Make positive changes. Stop doing stupid ****. See black culture rise up.

[DemoleDemolezan]

What's funny is, is that you believe yourself to be an authority on anything regarding this issue. I'm just humouring myself. None of what you've posted is relevant, makes sense, and frankly, its a good thing you aren't aware enough to even recognize that. I'm genuinely embarrassed for you.

You are a creepy dude who calls Al Sharpton a freedom fighter who does "God's Work". You need your head checked. I would love to know how stating verifiable facts about Sharpton while debating his impact and credibility is not relevant... Seriously, how the hell is that not relevant? If anything you are acting like some self-appointed point of authority/creepy spokesperson for Sharpton. I am simply pointing out well-known facts about him.

Yeah, this is off topic.

This is what we have been talking about. This thread has evolved (devolved) into a general discussion on race. This is not off-topic. I am sorry you are unable to create any more wild assumptions, ideas about Sharpton. Facts and evidence do have a tendency to shut people up.
I am done with this topic though. I proved my point.

[DemoleDemolezan]

What's funny is, is that you believe yourself to be an authority on anything regarding this issue. I'm just humouring myself. None of what you've posted is relevant, makes sense, and frankly, its a good thing you aren't aware enough to even recognize that. I'm genuinely embarrassed for you.

You are a creepy dude who calls Al Sharpton a freedom fighter who does "God's Work". You need your head checked. I would love to know how stating verifiable facts about Sharpton while debating his impact and credibility is not relevant... Seriously, how the hell is that not relevant? If anything you are acting like some self-appointed point of authority/creepy spokesperson for Sharpton. I am simply pointing out well-known facts about him.

Yeah, this is off topic.

This is what we have been talking about. This thread has evolved (devolved) into a general discussion on race. This is not off-topic. I am sorry you are unable to create any more wild assumptions, ideas about Sharpton. Facts and evidence do have a tendency to shut people up.
I am done with this topic though. I proved my point.

[wigglestrue]

I wouldn't be all that surprised if a study capable of determining such a thing found that half of all white people were sociopaths. Thing is, we should then expect more or less the same percentage of black people to be sociopaths, too. I do kind of get the sense that Black Jack would estimate a much, much lower percentage of black sociopathy, in which case Black Jack would be a racist, not quite unmitigated, but close.

Determined to be racist by whom? Sociopaths see their condition as a strength. I'd expect whites to wear their sociopathy as a badge of honour and proof of superiority.

Some certain white subcultures do. Cultural tropes, like jingoistic gun nuts, upper class hedonists, goths and other assorted nihilists, mafias and mobs, Jackasses and pickup-artists. Even a meme like the recent run on Running Out of ****s to Give carries a whiff of celebrating sociopathy. But, oops, white people don't have a monopoly on that. There are sociopathic habits and trends in some black subcultures, too. Perhaps this question has already become its own type of "standard white guy" cliche, lol, but have you read Questlove's series on hip hop in Vulture?

[Neutral 123]

I'm a Black dude, and I agree with much of what you're saying.

Black people should stop marching , stop protesting, and stop uttering the word racism.

We need to completely focus on ourselves.

I agree with you, but the difference between you and me is that I, at least, understand that unfair practices are are real and do, in fact, exist in a tangible way.

In my spirit, I can accept the truth of the existence of many unfair practices, yet, at the same time, I can agree with the general pragmatism of your post, however unempathetic it may come across.

Its racist garbage. The intent isn't to help, but to attack and demean. That sort of propaganda is incredibly destructive as it only enforces perceived inferiority. Groups that are oppressed and excluded generally have worse outcomes that those that aren't. An epidemic of single mothers? Sure, but check what those rates were for whites back in 1960 or 1970 and see what they are now.

Your argument essentially boils down to: "It's not our fault we can't take personal responsibility. It's the white man's fault." You refuse to take personal responsibility for your refusal to take personal responsibility.

That, my friend, is utterly pathetic.

I'm not denying there's still a degree of racism in America.

Clearly, there are some blatant, unabashed racists in America. However, these people are a small minority, a much smaller minority than African Americans I suspect, and are generally viewed with disgust by non-unabashed racists. These people hold little-to-no power in society, and are not holding African Americans back.

There is a second level of racism in America, subconscious racism. Those people who aren't outright hateful of blacks, yet, in the back of their minds, view black people differently.

Here's the cold, hard truth about subconscious racism: Much of it is justified. The subconscious mind is the part of the mind not filtered by P.C. nonsense; it's that part of our minds that knows black culture is a culture of high crime rates and violence.

What I'm telling you, is that you need to quit pretending all of white America are card-carrying members of the KKK, going out of their way to hold you down. That has no basis in reality, and is only giving you a cop-out excuse to not look at the real problem.

What I'm telling you, is the real problem is that black cultures promotes subconscious racism in otherwise fair-minded people. That will only change when black culture changes. We've come full circle, right back to the original point: That black people need to take responsibility for their own self-destructive actions.

It's that simple. Quit over-complicating things with delusional nonsense. Accept personal responsibility. Make positive changes. Stop doing stupid ****. See black culture rise up.

And I'm sure you'll miss the irony of saying that blacks won't take personal responsibility, and the following it up with a refusal to do the same. The reality is irrespective of levels of black crime, single parenthood, blacks have always suffered from outcomes far worse than whites. Your culture, your racism, has created this environment. You are not even separate from blacks people. Blacks are apart of America. You are getting mad at your teeth for being rotten when you refuse to brush them. If you want a healthy America, its time to do what's right, take personal responsibility and allow the healing to start.