2021-22 Rookie Thread

NRSV · Post #761 » by **NRSV** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 5:50 am

Re: Mobley vs Barnes.

The sample sizes are small. The numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. The eye test is still more important at this juncture. Though both players are producing early.

Barnes is being asked to ball handle more than Mobley. Mobley is being asked to defensively anchor. Barnes is creating most of his shots (only assisted on 28% of his field goals). Mobley is a roll man (assisted on like 66% of his shots) and mostly roll man'd his way to 23 points tonight.

I personally think being asked to anchor a defense to be more impressive than a comparable age player being asked to create shots but we aren't talking about what is impressive, we are talking value.

Some analytics say they're comparable. Some say Mobley is better. Again, it's early. It should be noted that Barnes is on the team that was projected to be 8-10 games better than the Cavs coming into the season. Not sure if these projections included Siakam missing time though.

Based only on demonstrated traits, I think Mobley is gonna be pretty insane when he reaches his final form. Nice shooting form with range. Toughness. High positional IQ. Great shot altering instincts. But that's not what ROTY is about. It's about what you are right now as a player. That tends to favor scoring and Barnes's green light will stay green all season.

QPR · Post #762 » by **QPR** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:07 am

DCasey91 wrote:
QPR wrote:I remember Durant came into the league in a similar situation as a skinny rookie expected to be a first or second option on a poor team - he averaged 20ppg in his first season but he shot 43% and under 30% from 3, and there were some big games in amongst a bunch of poor shooting nights.

Next season he grew up, put on size and figured out NBA defenses. I expect it will be similar for Green.

Difference is KD is long as heck and over 50% of games in his rookie season (44/80) he scored 20 or more and averaged 5.6 FTA’s a game. He was a natural ATG scorer from day dot.

Of course, I'm not saying Green is KD or will even be in that stratosphere (he most likely won't). More that Green is going to have the same up and downs as a skinny natural scorer playing against the best and strongest defenses.

Tha Cynic · Post #763 » by **Tha Cynic** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:18 am

djsunyc wrote:all draft folks said barnes can't shoot.

Watch on YouTube

it's either all of them take one stance and trumpet it or barnes and the raptors development system are just awesome.

To be fair he couldn't shoot. The issue was they also underrated Barnes' ability to improve and the Raptors' ability to develop.

How quickly his shot had been fixed is pretty crazy. Barnes looks like he can live off the midrange.

yoyoboy · Post #764 » by **yoyoboy** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:28 am

Scottie has been my 2nd favorite from this class since long before the draft. I think he has the best chance of winning ROY. Mobley is definitely more raw offensively right now.

Tha Cynic · Post #765 » by **Tha Cynic** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 6:30 am

NRSV wrote:Re: Mobley vs Barnes.

The sample sizes are small. The numbers should be taken with a grain of salt. The eye test is still more important at this juncture. Though both players are producing early.

Barnes is being asked to ball handle more than Mobley. Mobley is being asked to defensively anchor. Barnes is creating most of his shots (only assisted on 28% of his field goals). Mobley is a roll man (assisted on like 66% of his shots) and mostly roll man'd his way to 23 points tonight.

I personally think being asked to anchor a defense to be more impressive than a comparable age player being asked to create shots but we aren't talking about what is impressive, we are talking value.

Some analytics say they're comparable. Some say Mobley is better. Again, it's early. It should be noted that Barnes is on the team that was projected to be 8-10 games better than the Cavs coming into the season. Not sure if these projections included Siakam missing time though.

Based only on demonstrated traits, I think Mobley is gonna be pretty insane when he reaches his final form. Nice shooting form with range. Toughness. High positional IQ. Great shot altering instincts. But that's not what ROTY is about. It's about what you are right now as a player. That tends to favor scoring and Barnes's green light will stay green all season.

They both look like they will be great players. Masai wanted Mobley over all other players, and you can see why. Players like him don't grow on trees. When Mobley couldn't be had, he went for the next "don't grow in trees" player in Barnes.

Mobley definitely has way more potential, but both look like they could be great two way players. It will come down to what each team values more. What we have seen in the past is that each type of player will need to team up with the other type of player to win a championship.

If we're talking strictly rookie of the year - Mobley will definitely be ahead if it's close, because he was hyped more going into the draft and plays for a US based team.

djsunyc · Post #766 » by **djsunyc** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:32 am

masai heavily scouted these 3 players - mobley, barnes, giddey. i think that was his draft board in that order.

mobley is FANTASTIC.

but i still go with the wing that can initiate from the perimeter over a big man if they project to both be similar players.

PlatinumState · Post #767 » by **PlatinumState** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:41 am

Finally a decent game by Suggs

Post #768 » by **SOUL** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:47 am

PlatinumState wrote:Finally a decent game by Suggs

He's been decent in other games defensively and had a nice game vs the Knicks but this was the first one he put in a good offensive and defensive performance which is good to see.

fteru6uhre54ew · Post #769 » by **fteru6uhre54ew** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:30 am

Free my man Usman. That he don't play in that team when he is probably the best defender and with more winning mentality in that team is to kill someone in that franchise.

UcanUwill · Post #770 » by **UcanUwill** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 8:56 am

deadfeather wrote:All of you talking ROY, did you see Austin Reaves tonight?

Watch on YouTube

For a second I thought I was looking at Tom Holland. They come over younger and younger these days, or maybe I am just old now. :lol:

anotherhomer · Post #771 » by **anotherhomer** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:31 am

don't understand why that pelican fans was defensive

Everyone, not only Rap fans, are praising scottie.
However, Rap Fans are also acknowledging that Mobley was the first choice.
Heck, did you know Rap Fans were already debating to trade Barnes for Mobley in the theoretical that Cavs need a 3 more than a 5.

Cavs wouldn't do it though lol....

stanch sabonis · Post #772 » by **stanch sabonis** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 9:33 am

anotherhomer wrote:don't understand why that pelican fans was defensive

Everyone, not only Rap fans, are praising scottie.
However, Rap Fans are also acknowledging that Mobley was the first choice.
Heck, did you know Rap Fans were already debating to trade Barnes for Mobley in the theoretical that Cavs need a 3 more than a 5.

Cavs wouldn't do it though lol....

I still don't understand what makes Mobley a better prospect. Superstar wings are more valuable than bigs especially playmaking wings. Someone break it down to me. If we're talking about their high end potential, I don't understand how Mobley is the choice. I really don't.

I wouldn't trade Scottie for Mobley. It wouldn't even be a question to me.

Ralof · Post #773 » by **Ralof** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:12 am

Scottie Barnes is incredibly good,not even a debate about that;him and mobley gonna be the #1 and #2 of this draft in next years.

is crazy how much people and even scouts could be so low on him,the guy has really everything

PD28 · Post #774 » by **PD28** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:45 am

Ralof wrote:Scottie Barnes is incredibly good,not even a debate about that;him and mobley gonna be the #1 and #2 of this draft in next years.

is crazy how much people and even scouts could be so low on him,the guy has really everything

Solid game yesterday for both Rooks. Your coach has some very questionable substitution patterns with Suggs, at least two times where he sat him after he made a solid play lol

Shy Gorgeous-Al · Post #775 » by **Shy Gorgeous-Al** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:52 am

Evan Mobley as a rookie is the best player on the Cavs. He is the Cavs. When he is on the bench they lose their defensive identity, and I believe despite his raw offensive game, they regress offensively as well. He is too smart on both ends and knows where to be and these coupled with his physical gifts makes him an easy target for easy baskets.

He outplayed AD last night, pretty easily.

Shy Gorgeous-Al · Post #776 » by **Shy Gorgeous-Al** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 10:55 am

stanch sabonis wrote:
anotherhomer wrote:don't understand why that pelican fans was defensive

Everyone, not only Rap fans, are praising scottie.
However, Rap Fans are also acknowledging that Mobley was the first choice.
Heck, did you know Rap Fans were already debating to trade Barnes for Mobley in the theoretical that Cavs need a 3 more than a 5.

Cavs wouldn't do it though lol....

I still don't understand what makes Mobley a better prospect. Superstar wings are more valuable than bigs especially playmaking wings. Someone break it down to me. If we're talking about their high end potential, I don't understand how Mobley is the choice. I really don't.

I wouldn't trade Scottie for Mobley. It wouldn't even be a question to me.

He is a better prospect. His impact on the floor is greater and will remain so if he stays healthy. He is not your typical center... so you don't compare him to the impact of your typical center. Mobley in a few years may be called a wing, and with his physical gifts he is nothing like we have ever seen. Barnes can't and will never be able to do what Mobley can do defensively...and Mobley is a puppy, a baby giraffe..he isn't even close to his physical prime obviously. Barnes body is super NBA ready.

djsunyc · Post #777 » by **djsunyc** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:02 am

it's a fun debate to have over what kind of player would excel in today's nba. both barnes and mobley project to be really good players.

let me ask this instead - which player would be more valuable in terms of playoff success in today's nba - a team led by someone like KG or a team led by someone like pippen?

Ralof · Post #778 » by **Ralof** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:20 am

PD28 wrote:
Ralof wrote:Scottie Barnes is incredibly good,not even a debate about that;him and mobley gonna be the #1 and #2 of this draft in next years.

is crazy how much people and even scouts could be so low on him,the guy has really everything

Solid game yesterday for both Rooks. Your coach has some very questionable substitution patterns with Suggs, at least two times where he sat him after he made a solid play lol

Mosely is a rookie coach,but more important has to"protect"suggs,who can not handle the ball at an nba level right now.

problem is that the other"point guard"is cole anthony lol,then we have gary harris,hampton,ross,not adequate ball handlers,so rotation could be a mess.

we'd need a rubio type guy in the backcourt,but we don't :noway:

PD28 · Post #779 » by **PD28** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:24 am

Ralof wrote:
PD28 wrote:
Ralof wrote:Scottie Barnes is incredibly good,not even a debate about that;him and mobley gonna be the #1 and #2 of this draft in next years.

is crazy how much people and even scouts could be so low on him,the guy has really everything

Solid game yesterday for both Rooks. Your coach has some very questionable substitution patterns with Suggs, at least two times where he sat him after he made a solid play lol

Mosely is a rookie coach,but more important has to"protect"suggs,who can not handle the ball at an nba level right now.

problem is that the other"point guard"is cole anthony lol,then we have gary harris,hampton,ross,not adequate ball handlers,so rotation could be a mess.

we'd need a rubio type guy in the backcourt,but we don't

Ya I can see how Cole could be hurting Suggs' development but damn didn't know he could score like this. He may be in the running for MIP or a future 6th man award.

gorz · Post #780 » by **gorz** » Sat Oct 30, 2021 11:27 am

Scottie Barnes is my pick for rookie of the year. The kid is damn good. Rockets should have picked Evan Mobley @ #2 over Green.

Who will be the three best rookies?