NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (pt 2)

[CharityStripe34]

I don’t see an all-nba thread but I just heard Bill Simmons put Jaylen Brown 2nd team all-nba and Pascal Siakam 3rd. This Celtics homer must be a stopped, no reasonable human could think that.

[jokeboy86]

I don’t see an all-nba thread but I just heard Bill Simmons put Jaylen Brown 2nd team all-nba and Pascal Siakam 3rd. This Celtics homer must be a stopped, no reasonable human could think that.

I’m telling you Tatum is getting the Celtics push-

Not saying Tatum is undeserving but if he is on the best team, his stats only need to be within spitting distance and he will win the MVP

This. I think the media would prefer Tatum win it especially coming off of last year's Finals run and want to steer the award back towards best player on team with top 2 record its just Jokic's team record and stats and Luka's stats are going to make it very hard to dismiss if this continues. Then there's Giannis who has the stats/team record but I still think the Bucks will shut him down towards the end to get him healthy and ready for the playoffs especially if the top seed becomes clearly out of reach. Oh and now Durant has to enter the conversation since he's having his best season in some time and his team is on a 12 game winning streak.

[_NoMas]

I don’t see an all-nba thread but I just heard Bill Simmons put Jaylen Brown 2nd team all-nba and Pascal Siakam 3rd. This Celtics homer must be a stopped, no reasonable human could think that.

Don’t think either of them are making second team all nba tbh. Raptors and lakers have identical records, so right now Lebron will join one of KD Giannis Tatum in the second team surely…

[CobraCommander]

Firstly, if you use stats to compare Jokic and Doncic, you should use the same stats to compare Tatum and Doncic. Doncic is better in vast majority of counting and advanced stats. Some with very big margin. But somehow that doesn't matter to you.

If we compare Jokic and Doncic, their stats are very close. In some is better Jokic, especially in TS%, btw bigs are having better TS% because of shots they're taking, and in some Doncic. Scoring 9 points more is a lot. Luka the best scorer in the league, Jokic only on 20th position. The same goes with advanced stats. Some shows Luka as better, some Jokic. Looking at advanced stats, you can't say either is better, everything very close. Luka better offensive player easily.

When you start using a tool for comparison and make a case of it, you can't just stop using it, when it doesn't work out for you anymore. You can't say someone is better because of advanced stats and then forget about stats, when Tatum has a lot worse stats than Luka.

About standings, Jokic has won only 1 game more than Luka, when they play for their teams. I don't believe that cheerleading counts in MVP race. If anything, Mavs with 0 wins without Luka should make his case even stronger.

It might be a close race, but if you look at advanced stats, Luka and Jokic are few levels better than others. Nobody even close. Others are in it just because they're playing for far superior teams.

Bob- i misunderstood your point- I thought you were comparing Luka to Jokic and I still think Jokic is playing better than Luka overall. The TS% isn’t just where they are shooting from. Jokic equal to Luka or better than Luka from everywhere including the FT line. Luka just takes a ton more shots. Also Luka is amazing in the post and midrange - we are splitting hairs tho. Again if Luka wins MVP he will have earned it. I think you think I am anti-Luka or anti anyone else.

But if Giannis, Embiid, Tatum or KD win it I wouldn’t be surprised or upset either - if curry or Zion got healthy and put on a a show in the second half and won it I wouldn’t be overly surprised as well because it’s writers voting -

Tatums strongest argument was being best player on best team - winning matters and being in Boston and being a very good two way player helps… and again playing in BOSTON helps. I also agree with you that Tatums pure stats are not as good as LUKAs right now-

Apart from jokic- I don’t think anyone can definitively say they should be mvp-

I also don’t think Luka has set himself apart by having amazing games- everyone going crazy-

This is the best race we have had - and I don’t think it would be bad if Luka won… I just don’t think he will

You're sounding like averaging 34+ points is the easiest thing on earth. How many players in last 20 years have done that?

I'm sure that you know that TS% is not the only advanced stats out there. And btw. Luka has better 3pts % with 3x bigger volume, taking much more difficult shots than Jokic.

You're acting like Mavs are on 10th position. I have already told you, Jokic has won only 1 game more than Luka. If a single win more means he is undisputed MVP then I can only agree.

Yes some others have some very impressive games too, difference is that Luka had 25+ impressive games. That's why no one except Jokic is nowhere near in advanced stats.

Luka hasn’t separated himself - he is playing great and like I said, if he wins he will have earned if….

But he is taking the most shots in the league and scoring the most point… sounds about right -

Luka hasn’t separated himself- I don’t think there is anything he is doing that 5 other guys are not also doing-

There are 5 guys avg 30+ a game- and that doesn’t include jokic who is avg 26, 11 and 9.5 assist -

Don’t focus only on Luka man- This is crazy right now

For example:
Giannis Antetokounmpo has averaged 40.4 points, 14.0 rebounds and 4.9 assists in 7 games in his last 7 games

This is worthy of the MVP over anyone else in league…. Normally

But Joel Embiid has averaged 34.9 points, 9.6 rebounds and 4.4 assists in 7 games in his last 7 games

And Luka Doncic has averaged 41.7 points, 11.0 rebounds and 9.9 assists in 7 games in his last 7 games

And Nikola Jokic has averaged 29.0 points, 10.9 assists and 10.0 rebounds in 7 games

And this doesn’t include SGA and a ton of other people that are balling out and could make long shot argument for MVP

I’m saying Luka ain’t separated himself because no one really has… and jokic being best player on best team in west with better stats makes him my favorite - but it’s a long way to go Bob… Luka hasn’t done anything special compared to the other guys - he is ONE of the best not the best - he hasn’t even had the best performance of the year and he went for 60 and 20… cause Mitchell went for the second most point generated ever and the 8th most point individually -

It’s crazy right now - nba is must see tv -

Would I be surprised if Luka dropped 80? No

Would I be surprised if Giannis dropped 80? No

Would I be surprised if Embiid dropped 80? No

These guys are going after stats now… and with their usage it possible any night

[CobraCommander]

I don’t see an all-nba thread but I just heard Bill Simmons put Jaylen Brown 2nd team all-nba and Pascal Siakam 3rd. This Celtics homer must be a stopped, no reasonable human could think that.

I’m telling you Tatum is getting the Celtics push-

Not saying Tatum is undeserving but if he is on the best team, his stats only need to be within spitting distance and he will win the MVP

This. I think the media would prefer Tatum win it especially coming off of last year's Finals run and want to steer the award back towards best player on team with top 2 record its just Jokic's team record and stats and Luka's stats are going to make it very hard to dismiss if this continues. Then there's Giannis who has the stats/team record but I still think the Bucks will shut him down towards the end to get him healthy and ready for the playoffs especially if the top seed becomes clearly out of reach. Oh and now Durant has to enter the conversation since he's having his best season in some time and his team is on a 12 game winning streak.

The Boston push is real -

But a 12 game winning streak - keeping Krazy kyrie out of trouble and doing it in Brooklyn…. Kinda strong argument for mvp lol

[FluLikeSymptoms]

I don’t see an all-nba thread but I just heard Bill Simmons put Jaylen Brown 2nd team all-nba and Pascal Siakam 3rd. This Celtics homer must be a stopped, no reasonable human could think that.

Don’t think either of them are making second team all nba tbh. Raptors and lakers have identical records, so right now Lebron will join one of KD Giannis Tatum in the second team surely…

Maybe Zion.

[cupcakesnake]

I don’t see an all-nba thread but I just heard Bill Simmons put Jaylen Brown 2nd team all-nba and Pascal Siakam 3rd. This Celtics homer must be a stopped, no reasonable human could think that.

Don’t think either of them are making second team all nba tbh. Raptors and lakers have identical records, so right now Lebron will join one of KD Giannis Tatum in the second team surely…

Maybe Zion.

Assuming a healthy enough season, I think it's clearly Zion if the Pelicans are head and shoulders above the Raps and Lakers (which looks likely as of today). I think the other guy in this tier of forwards is Paul George.

Tier 1 forwards: Giannis, Durant, Tatum
Tier 2 forwards: Zion, George, Siakam, Lebron
Tier 3 forwards: Jimmy Butler, Jaylen Brown

I'm not sure if he's a guard or a forward, but either way I don't quite have Jaylen Brown in this group. He's on their level as a scorer (They're all between 34-37 points per 100), but I don't see the rest of the game there. This tier 2 group are all above 6.5 assists per 100, and Jaylen is down at 4.5 while turning the ball over as much as any of them. He's a better defender than Lebron and Zion, but not on a level with Siakam and George. A quick browse of the catch-all metrics do not have him in this tier (I checked RAPTOR, EPM, BPM). The main things Jaylen Brown has going for him is being on a wins juggernaut, (which definitely counts for something, especially if the Raps and Lakers stay in the basement) and being the healthiest. He's currently played a lot more games than the other guys.

Right now I have Zion on second team, with Siakam and George on 3rd. I don't see the case for Lebron over these guys either. He's a way worse defender, Siakam is the superior playmaker this year (more assists, way less turnovers). Jimmy Butler is the other guy who belongs in this discussion. In some ways he's been the best player of all of this group of forwards, but he's starting to fall behind in games played already.

[Bob8]

Ok so Giannis dropping 55 today letting us know

that 50 is the new 40

and 60 is the new 50


and 71 is still ****Ing outrageous...

Jokic gonna have to win the MVP by being consistently better without a single outlier game lol

Right now the field is crowded!

Jokic at 1.

Tatum at 2.


Luka, KD, Giannis and Embiid tied at 3

Mitchell at 4 and climbing

Curry, Zion and Ja at 5...

Is The NBA currently more stacked than ever before or are guys just showing off..or both...

https://stathead.com/tiny/4sTcu

https://stathead.com/tiny/pK0kD

Just a week ago you used this comparison to show how Jokic is in front of Luka. I guess it doesn't suit your narrative anymore?

It does even more today than last week...Lukas TS% has gone down while Jokic has gone up slightly. So if Jokic took 8 more shots a game Jokic would theoretically avg more points. Jokic is better or equal to Luka shooting from everywhere - one is a point and the other is Jokic. Jokic still ahead in every stat per 36 minutes except shots taken...including assist lol

What are you reading Bob? You send me stats to reinforce my opinion lol


Btw...at this point- IMO it’s Jokic vs like 5 guys that haven’t differentiated themselves...

Denver is number1 in the west and Boston in the east which helps Tatum and Jokic but

Giannis, Luka, Mitchell, Embiid and KD are coming ....

Embiid, Luka and Giannis had equally monstrous games over the last 2 weeks- and are on 7 game historic stretches... So no separation there between any of these guys -

KD having great stats and quietly the nets on 12 game winning streak- best in league - which pulled him equally with Giannis, Luka and Embiid.


If the stats that you read don’t show you Jokic is ahead of Luka - fine...but none of the sports writers have openly said they think Luka is the mvp...the narrative has been Tatum, initially then Giannis, and recently Jokic... Luka 60 point game just got trumped by Mitchell and Embiid and Giannis saying “ what about me”....

And Zion and Curry were getting votes before injury and Dame and Booker and ja getting considerations


in other words...right now there isn’t a MVP.... we are watching the craziest parity at the top of the league in a long time with really NO ONE guy playing that much better than any of the other top guys....

I’d be happy regardless (if Luka wins...bravo and well earned)- no one could feel cheated if they lost and the winner will have beat a worthy field!

If you really believe that Luka is in the same group as Michell, Embiid...you should put big money on them, your return will be huge.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/mvp/

[_NoMas]

Don’t think either of them are making second team all nba tbh. Raptors and lakers have identical records, so right now Lebron will join one of KD Giannis Tatum in the second team surely…

Maybe Zion.

Assuming a healthy enough season, I think it's clearly Zion if the Pelicans are head and shoulders above the Raps and Lakers (which looks likely as of today). I think the other guy in this tier of forwards is Paul George.

Tier 1 forwards: Giannis, Durant, Tatum
Tier 2 forwards: Zion, George, Siakam, Lebron
Tier 3 forwards: Jimmy Butler, Jaylen Brown

I'm not sure if he's a guard or a forward, but either way I don't quite have Jaylen Brown in this group. He's on their level as a scorer (They're all between 34-37 points per 100), but I don't see the rest of the game there. This tier 2 group are all above 6.5 assists per 100, and Jaylen is down at 4.5 while turning the ball over as much as any of them. He's a better defender than Lebron and Zion, but not on a level with Siakam and George. A quick browse of the catch-all metrics do not have him in this tier (I checked RAPTOR, EPM, BPM). The main things Jaylen Brown has going for him is being on a wins juggernaut, (which definitely counts for something, especially if the Raps and Lakers stay in the basement) and being the healthiest. He's currently played a lot more games than the other guys.

Right now I have Zion on second team, with Siakam and George on 3rd. I don't see the case for Lebron over these guys either. He's a way worse defender, Siakam is the superior playmaker this year (more assists, way less turnovers). Jimmy Butler is the other guy who belongs in this discussion. In some ways he's been the best player of all of this group of forwards, but he's starting to fall behind in games played already.

Yep agreed, I’d definitely have Siakam over Lebron but he’s going to be the popular vote. If they have similar records he is going to be second team I think. I’d probably suggest Bam as an alternative to jimmy, I think I’m higher on him then most, but he’s been very good this year, and is more available then jimmy

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Don’t think either of them are making second team all nba tbh. Raptors and lakers have identical records, so right now Lebron will join one of KD Giannis Tatum in the second team surely…

Maybe Zion.

Assuming a healthy enough season, I think it's clearly Zion if the Pelicans are head and shoulders above the Raps and Lakers (which looks likely as of today). I think the other guy in this tier of forwards is Paul George.

Tier 1 forwards: Giannis, Durant, Tatum
Tier 2 forwards: Zion, George, Siakam, Lebron
Tier 3 forwards: Jimmy Butler, Jaylen Brown

I'm not sure if he's a guard or a forward, but either way I don't quite have Jaylen Brown in this group. He's on their level as a scorer (They're all between 34-37 points per 100), but I don't see the rest of the game there. This tier 2 group are all above 6.5 assists per 100, and Jaylen is down at 4.5 while turning the ball over as much as any of them. He's a better defender than Lebron and Zion, but not on a level with Siakam and George. A quick browse of the catch-all metrics do not have him in this tier (I checked RAPTOR, EPM, BPM). The main things Jaylen Brown has going for him is being on a wins juggernaut, (which definitely counts for something, especially if the Raps and Lakers stay in the basement) and being the healthiest. He's currently played a lot more games than the other guys.

Right now I have Zion on second team, with Siakam and George on 3rd. I don't see the case for Lebron over these guys either. He's a way worse defender, Siakam is the superior playmaker this year (more assists, way less turnovers). Jimmy Butler is the other guy who belongs in this discussion. In some ways he's been the best player of all of this group of forwards, but he's starting to fall behind in games played already.

Probably right. In any case for me it’s got to be someone who’s an actual #1 on a team, not just a guy with a high USG% because he pretty much only does the 3 things involved in the equation for USG%. A lot of possessions end with him, cool.

[CobraCommander]

https://stathead.com/tiny/4sTcu

https://stathead.com/tiny/pK0kD

Just a week ago you used this comparison to show how Jokic is in front of Luka. I guess it doesn't suit your narrative anymore?

It does even more today than last week...Lukas TS% has gone down while Jokic has gone up slightly. So if Jokic took 8 more shots a game Jokic would theoretically avg more points. Jokic is better or equal to Luka shooting from everywhere - one is a point and the other is Jokic. Jokic still ahead in every stat per 36 minutes except shots taken...including assist lol

What are you reading Bob? You send me stats to reinforce my opinion lol


Btw...at this point- IMO it’s Jokic vs like 5 guys that haven’t differentiated themselves...

Denver is number1 in the west and Boston in the east which helps Tatum and Jokic but

Giannis, Luka, Mitchell, Embiid and KD are coming ....

Embiid, Luka and Giannis had equally monstrous games over the last 2 weeks- and are on 7 game historic stretches... So no separation there between any of these guys -

KD having great stats and quietly the nets on 12 game winning streak- best in league - which pulled him equally with Giannis, Luka and Embiid.


If the stats that you read don’t show you Jokic is ahead of Luka - fine...but none of the sports writers have openly said they think Luka is the mvp...the narrative has been Tatum, initially then Giannis, and recently Jokic... Luka 60 point game just got trumped by Mitchell and Embiid and Giannis saying “ what about me”....

And Zion and Curry were getting votes before injury and Dame and Booker and ja getting considerations


in other words...right now there isn’t a MVP.... we are watching the craziest parity at the top of the league in a long time with really NO ONE guy playing that much better than any of the other top guys....

I’d be happy regardless (if Luka wins...bravo and well earned)- no one could feel cheated if they lost and the winner will have beat a worthy field!

If you really believe that Luka is in the same group as Michell, Embiid...you should put big money on them, your return will be huge.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/mvp/

Luka is in the same group as Embiid, Giannis, Tatum and KD...Mitchell is gaining steam but is with the Ja’s of the world.

But I’m not betting on an opinion contest when MJ doesn’t have 10 MVPs and Shaq doesn’t have 3 and Nash has 2 and Lebron only has 4...

[LessEyeTest]

Read on Twitter

Embiid is not a legitimate MVP candidate…

[Bob8]

It does even more today than last week...Lukas TS% has gone down while Jokic has gone up slightly. So if Jokic took 8 more shots a game Jokic would theoretically avg more points. Jokic is better or equal to Luka shooting from everywhere - one is a point and the other is Jokic. Jokic still ahead in every stat per 36 minutes except shots taken...including assist lol

What are you reading Bob? You send me stats to reinforce my opinion lol


Btw...at this point- IMO it’s Jokic vs like 5 guys that haven’t differentiated themselves...

Denver is number1 in the west and Boston in the east which helps Tatum and Jokic but

Giannis, Luka, Mitchell, Embiid and KD are coming ....

Embiid, Luka and Giannis had equally monstrous games over the last 2 weeks- and are on 7 game historic stretches... So no separation there between any of these guys -

KD having great stats and quietly the nets on 12 game winning streak- best in league - which pulled him equally with Giannis, Luka and Embiid.


If the stats that you read don’t show you Jokic is ahead of Luka - fine...but none of the sports writers have openly said they think Luka is the mvp...the narrative has been Tatum, initially then Giannis, and recently Jokic... Luka 60 point game just got trumped by Mitchell and Embiid and Giannis saying “ what about me”....

And Zion and Curry were getting votes before injury and Dame and Booker and ja getting considerations


in other words...right now there isn’t a MVP.... we are watching the craziest parity at the top of the league in a long time with really NO ONE guy playing that much better than any of the other top guys....

I’d be happy regardless (if Luka wins...bravo and well earned)- no one could feel cheated if they lost and the winner will have beat a worthy field!

If you really believe that Luka is in the same group as Michell, Embiid...you should put big money on them, your return will be huge.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/mvp/

Luka is in the same group as Embiid, Giannis, Tatum and KD...Mitchell is gaining steam but is with the Ja’s of the world.

But I’m not betting on an opinion contest when MJ doesn’t have 10 MVPs and Shaq doesn’t have 3 and Nash has 2 and Lebron only has 4...

And why is he in the same group, if his counting and advaced stats are few levels better? And why is Jokic in front? Because he has 1 win more?

Why do you think Vegas and other bookies have him in the first place? Because gamblers like overweighted Slovenians?

[CobraCommander]

If you really believe that Luka is in the same group as Michell, Embiid...you should put big money on them, your return will be huge.

https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/mvp/

Luka is in the same group as Embiid, Giannis, Tatum and KD...Mitchell is gaining steam but is with the Ja’s of the world.

But I’m not betting on an opinion contest when MJ doesn’t have 10 MVPs and Shaq doesn’t have 3 and Nash has 2 and Lebron only has 4...

And why is he in the same group, if his counting and advaced stats are few levels better? And why is Jokic in front? Because he has 1 win more?

Why do you think Vegas and other bookies have him in the first place? Because gamblers like overweighted Slovenians?

No...that’s not the way “Vegas” works...they build those big buildings setting odds based on how people will bet...not based on what will happen. Vegas doesn’t care or know who is going to win...the odds are set by voting trends.

100 sports writers are going to vote for the winner and I don’t think Luka would win today if the vote was today.

Just today on ESPN and Fox people said multiple times Giannis is the best player on earth and that Jokic has been the most consistent...while some still touting Tatum as the guy and talking about KDs winning streak....I know that at least a few writers for certain don’t have luka...Broussard doesn’t, wilborn doesnt, Doris doesn’t, Issy doesn’t, Hayes doesn’t, Hubbart doesn’t, Isola might!, Lowe has Jokic, Mccmullon got Tatum I bet -

And of course I’m just going off what these people are saying and I think they all got a vote

Stephen a smith and Skip probably good judges

[Bob8]

Luka is in the same group as Embiid, Giannis, Tatum and KD...Mitchell is gaining steam but is with the Ja’s of the world.

But I’m not betting on an opinion contest when MJ doesn’t have 10 MVPs and Shaq doesn’t have 3 and Nash has 2 and Lebron only has 4...

And why is he in the same group, if his counting and advaced stats are few levels better? And why is Jokic in front? Because he has 1 win more?

Why do you think Vegas and other bookies have him in the first place? Because gamblers like overweighted Slovenians?

No...that’s not the way “Vegas” works...they build those big buildings setting odds based on how people will bet...not based on what will happen. Vegas doesn’t care or know who is going to win...the odds are set by voting trends.

100 sports writers are going to vote for the winner and I don’t think Luka would win today if the vote was today.

Just today on ESPN and Fox people said multiple times Giannis is the best player on earth and that Jokic has been the most consistent...while some still touting Tatum as the guy and talking about KDs winning streak....I know that at least a few writers for certain don’t have luka...Broussard doesn’t, wilborn doesnt, Doris doesn’t, Issy doesn’t, Hayes doesn’t, Hubbart doesn’t, Isola might!, Lowe has Jokic, Mccmullon

And people bet based on what? Love for Slovenia?

If I'm not mistaken we're discussing, who's the best player at the moment, not how will certain writers vote in 4 months time.

You have brought comparisons between Luka's and Jokic's stats few weeks back. Your conclusion was, and you were right, that Jokic is better. But now you don't care much about that anymore, now everybody except Jokic are in the same tier, because some writers say so. If your criteria back then were advanced stats, the same criteria should be used now.

[eyeatoma]

Read on Twitter

Embiid is not a legitimate MVP candidate…

Lol!

[Cubbies2120]

And why is he in the same group, if his counting and advaced stats are few levels better? And why is Jokic in front? Because he has 1 win more?

Why do you think Vegas and other bookies have him in the first place? Because gamblers like overweighted Slovenians?

No...that’s not the way “Vegas” works...they build those big buildings setting odds based on how people will bet...not based on what will happen. Vegas doesn’t care or know who is going to win...the odds are set by voting trends.

100 sports writers are going to vote for the winner and I don’t think Luka would win today if the vote was today.

Just today on ESPN and Fox people said multiple times Giannis is the best player on earth and that Jokic has been the most consistent...while some still touting Tatum as the guy and talking about KDs winning streak....I know that at least a few writers for certain don’t have luka...Broussard doesn’t, wilborn doesnt, Doris doesn’t, Issy doesn’t, Hayes doesn’t, Hubbart doesn’t, Isola might!, Lowe has Jokic, Mccmullon

And people bet based on what? Love for Slovenia?

If I'm not mistaken we're discussing, who's the best player at the moment, not how will certain writers vote in 4 months time.

You have brought comparisons between Luka's and Jokic's stats few weeks back. Your conclusion was, and you were right, that Jokic is better. But now you don't care much about that anymore, now everybody except Jokic are in the same tier, because some writers say so. If your criteria back then were advanced stats, the same criteria should be used now.

Aww here we go with the MVP odds thing again...

Luka has been the favorite or top 2 (at worst +400 odds) the entire season.

Jokic was +2800 at one point this season and is now at +400.

Luka's move from +400 to +300 or Jokic's move from +2800 to +400...what tells us more?

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nba/mvp-award-odds/

Here you can see Jokic at +2800 in November, +2420 about a month ago (Dec 5). That means heavy money came in on Jokic and forced bookmakers to adjust...but maybe people love betting on overweight Serbians

[Bob8]

No...that’s not the way “Vegas” works...they build those big buildings setting odds based on how people will bet...not based on what will happen. Vegas doesn’t care or know who is going to win...the odds are set by voting trends.

100 sports writers are going to vote for the winner and I don’t think Luka would win today if the vote was today.

Just today on ESPN and Fox people said multiple times Giannis is the best player on earth and that Jokic has been the most consistent...while some still touting Tatum as the guy and talking about KDs winning streak....I know that at least a few writers for certain don’t have luka...Broussard doesn’t, wilborn doesnt, Doris doesn’t, Issy doesn’t, Hayes doesn’t, Hubbart doesn’t, Isola might!, Lowe has Jokic, Mccmullon

And people bet based on what? Love for Slovenia?

If I'm not mistaken we're discussing, who's the best player at the moment, not how will certain writers vote in 4 months time.

You have brought comparisons between Luka's and Jokic's stats few weeks back. Your conclusion was, and you were right, that Jokic is better. But now you don't care much about that anymore, now everybody except Jokic are in the same tier, because some writers say so. If your criteria back then were advanced stats, the same criteria should be used now.

Aww here we go with the MVP odds thing again...

Luka has been the favorite or top 2 (at worst +400 odds) the entire season.

Jokic was +2800 at one point this season and is now at +400.

Luka's move from +400 to +300 or Jokic's move from +2800 to +400...what tells us more?

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nba/mvp-award-odds/

Here you can see Jokic at +2800 in November, +2420 about a month ago (Dec 5). That means heavy money came in on Jokic and forced bookmakers to adjust...but maybe people love betting on overweight Serbians

Nothing tells us more. Money is at the moment on players they believe will win. Some bettors are more informed and some less, but in the end those bets are pretty accurate for what we have seen till now in Nba. If my friend Cobra was right that everyone deserves the same, we wouldn't have had those differences in odds between first and 7th place. Or maybe you believe that bettors like overweighted Slovenian more?

[Cubbies2120]

And people bet based on what? Love for Slovenia?

If I'm not mistaken we're discussing, who's the best player at the moment, not how will certain writers vote in 4 months time.

You have brought comparisons between Luka's and Jokic's stats few weeks back. Your conclusion was, and you were right, that Jokic is better. But now you don't care much about that anymore, now everybody except Jokic are in the same tier, because some writers say so. If your criteria back then were advanced stats, the same criteria should be used now.

Aww here we go with the MVP odds thing again...

Luka has been the favorite or top 2 (at worst +400 odds) the entire season.

Jokic was +2800 at one point this season and is now at +400.

Luka's move from +400 to +300 or Jokic's move from +2800 to +400...what tells us more?

https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nba/mvp-award-odds/

Here you can see Jokic at +2800 in November, +2420 about a month ago (Dec 5). That means heavy money came in on Jokic and forced bookmakers to adjust...but maybe people love betting on overweight Serbians

Nothing tells us more. Money is at the moment on players they believe will win. Some bettors are more informed and some less, but in the end those bets are pretty accurate for what we have seen till now in Nba. If my friend Cobra was right that everyone deserves the same, we wouldn't have had those differences in odds between first and 7th place. Or maybe you believe that bettors like overweighted Slovenian more?

Luka always hovers around +400 as seen in last couple seasons. Starts as a favorite quite often:

2021:
https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nba/2021-mvp-award-odds/

Mid-December:

[December 15] With a week to go before the season tips off, Doncic has surged ahead of Antetokounmpo, at average odds of +405 to win MVP in his third NBA season

2022:
https://www.sportsbettingdime.com/nba/2022-mvp-award-odds/

With odds opening up for the next NBA season, Giannis Antetokounmpo is the favorite to “threepeat” at odds of +600. Luka Doncic also has +600 odds headed into this third season, while LeBron James & Anthony Davis are +700

Luka has lost people a LOT of money, while Jokic storms in from longshot odds the last 2 seasons and wins people a lot of money...

Not sure that MVP odds tell us all that much...last season we kept having them posted in here for Embiid and we saw how that played out. I'd expect Luka to be distancing himself from the pack (going into - odds) rather than staying where he is, after a historic run of games. Instead, Jokic is closing the distance significantly (from +2800 to +400)...but again maybe people like chubby Serbs

[jokeboy86]

Its funny watching NBA countdown on ESPN, you would think Jokic’s name is Voldemort when it comes to MVP discussion. It literally was like they were afraid to say his name lol