NBA MVP Discussion 20/21 (Fresh poll ➥ Vote)

[LesGrossman]

I had KD as my pick before the season started but the harden trade has basically taken him out of the equation.
My top 5 would be Embiid, Lebron, Curry, Jokic, Kawhi

How has the Harden trade taken KD out of the equation? Please elaborate how Harden nullifies KD but AD doesnt nullify LeBron. Cant see the consistency there. AD, LeBron both 1st Team all NBA. Harden, KD probably too. Exactly the same scenario.

[mademan]

Philly's advanced metrics paint them as a team thats decently worse than their record. Bucks only have 1 loss more right now; no doubt in my mind they take back the 1st seed. The rest of the East is awful tho, so Sixers have a great shot of holding onto that 2nd seed keeping Embiid in a strong position for the MVP. He's still gonna need to be in reach of the Lakers in terms of wins

[Homer38]

I had KD as my pick before the season started but the harden trade has basically taken him out of the equation.
My top 5 would be Embiid, Lebron, Curry, Jokic, Kawhi

How has the Harden trade taken KD out of the equation? Please elaborate how Harden nullifies KD but AD doesnt nullify LeBron. Cant see the consistency there. AD, LeBron both 1st Team all NBA. Harden, KD probably too. Exactly the same scenario.

AD will not be in the first team all-nba this year....And the Nets are only 15-12 right now vs 20-6 for the Lakers.LeBron is way ahead of KD right now for the MVP.

[LesGrossman]

I had KD as my pick before the season started but the harden trade has basically taken him out of the equation.
My top 5 would be Embiid, Lebron, Curry, Jokic, Kawhi

How has the Harden trade taken KD out of the equation? Please elaborate how Harden nullifies KD but AD doesnt nullify LeBron. Cant see the consistency there. AD, LeBron both 1st Team all NBA. Harden, KD probably too. Exactly the same scenario.

AD will not be in the first team all-nba this year....And the Nets are only 15-12 right now vs 20-6 for the Lakers.LeBron is way ahead of KD right now for the MVP.

He said KD is out of contention because of Harden. That is what i was wondering about, not their record. If Harden keeps KD from running how doesnt AD? Be consistent in your criteria. If we exclude everyone who has a premium teammate, we will have to count Kawhi out too ebcause PG13 is actually good this season.

I'm fine with it. Stick with the guys who really carry mediocre teams. Jokic, Steph, Embiid.

[mademan]

How has the Harden trade taken KD out of the equation? Please elaborate how Harden nullifies KD but AD doesnt nullify LeBron. Cant see the consistency there. AD, LeBron both 1st Team all NBA. Harden, KD probably too. Exactly the same scenario.

AD will not be in the first team all-nba this year....And the Nets are only 15-12 right now vs 20-6 for the Lakers.LeBron is way ahead of KD right now for the MVP.

He said KD is out of contention because of Harden. That is what i was wondering about, not their record. If Harden keeps KD from running how doesnt AD? Be consistent in your criteria.

Youre never out cause of a teammates name. AD has been underwhelming this year, out of shape and has missed a decent amount of games thus far. There is no doubt that the Lakers dominance and record is primarily because of Lebron. At this point, KD has missed a third of the games played so there's a very reasonable argument to make that he hasnt been the most valuable player for his own team. Availability is a thing.

By the criteria set out in the past, Lebron/Embiid/Kawhi are the only contenders atm.

[Jadoogar]

How has the Harden trade taken KD out of the equation? Please elaborate how Harden nullifies KD but AD doesnt nullify LeBron. Cant see the consistency there. AD, LeBron both 1st Team all NBA. Harden, KD probably too. Exactly the same scenario.

AD will not be in the first team all-nba this year....And the Nets are only 15-12 right now vs 20-6 for the Lakers.LeBron is way ahead of KD right now for the MVP.

He said KD is out of contention because of Harden. That is what i was wondering about, not their record. If Harden keeps KD from running how doesnt AD? Be consistent in your criteria. If we exclude everyone who has a premium teammate, we will have to count Kawhi out too ebcause PG13 is actually good this season.

I'm fine with it. Stick with the guys who really carry mediocre teams. Jokic, Steph, Embiid.

LOL its not just harden. Are you forgetting the other all nba team mater? Did KD get a lot of mvp votes on the warriors?

[Alonzo_Morning]

Curry is 7th in the latest NBA.com rankings

fricking LOL

[ThePersianFreak]

I had KD as my pick before the season started but the harden trade has basically taken him out of the equation.
My top 5 would be Embiid, Lebron, Curry, Jokic, Kawhi

How has the Harden trade taken KD out of the equation? Please elaborate how Harden nullifies KD but AD doesnt nullify LeBron. Cant see the consistency there. AD, LeBron both 1st Team all NBA. Harden, KD probably too. Exactly the same scenario.

KD's missed too many games. Doesn't matter if he's playing with or without Harden.
On the other hand, It's been AD who's been missing games and LeBron's played in all the games.

Wether you think LeBron's a worthy MVP condidate or not, doesn't matter. What matters is that those who are gonna vote have LeBron as the favourite at the moment. I know as someone who hates LeBron, it's gonna hurt. but you have to deal with it.

[clyde21]

Curry is 7th in the latest NBA.com rankings

fricking LOL

32/6/6 per 36 on 49/44/93 with a 26 PER, 66 TS% and 7.6 BPM and #2 overall in RPM to only LeBron.

i get the whole 8 seed argument, and that's why he shouldn't win it, but Steph is taking a team that won 15 games last year and giving them a playoff shot in the West on absolutely obscene numbers.

and if you are gonna count weigh wins that much, why is Jokic who has the same record as Steph essentially top 3? doesn't make sense.

[LesGrossman]

I had KD as my pick before the season started but the harden trade has basically taken him out of the equation.
My top 5 would be Embiid, Lebron, Curry, Jokic, Kawhi

How has the Harden trade taken KD out of the equation? Please elaborate how Harden nullifies KD but AD doesnt nullify LeBron. Cant see the consistency there. AD, LeBron both 1st Team all NBA. Harden, KD probably too. Exactly the same scenario.

KD's missed too many games. Doesn't matter if he's playing with or without Harden.
On the other hand, It's been AD who's been missing games and LeBron's played in all the games.

Wether you think LeBron's a worthy MVP condidate or not, doesn't matter. What matters is that those who are gonna vote have LeBron as the favourite at the moment. I know as someone who hates LeBron, it's gonna hurt. but you have to deal with it.

Its fine i dont care much at this point, but the spinning and bending out of shape to create a narrative that allows a weak move here but not there is just hilarious.

I understand that AD seems to be less of a factor, however how did the lakers fare since he went out? To me it seems like they went from a clear cut back-to-back candidate to a team that consistently needs to go to overtime to beat bottom dwellers, or am i mistaken? Should go back and look at the record and opponents since AD went out

[ThePersianFreak]

How has the Harden trade taken KD out of the equation? Please elaborate how Harden nullifies KD but AD doesnt nullify LeBron. Cant see the consistency there. AD, LeBron both 1st Team all NBA. Harden, KD probably too. Exactly the same scenario.

KD's missed too many games. Doesn't matter if he's playing with or without Harden.
On the other hand, It's been AD who's been missing games and LeBron's played in all the games.

Wether you think LeBron's a worthy MVP condidate or not, doesn't matter. What matters is that those who are gonna vote have LeBron as the favourite at the moment. I know as someone who hates LeBron, it's gonna hurt. but you have to deal with it.

Its fine i dont care much at this point, but the spinning and bending out of shape to create a narrative that allows a weak move here but not there is just hilarious.

I understand that AD seems to be less of a factor, however how did the lakers fare since he went out? To me it seems like they went from a clear cut back-to-back candidate to a team that consistently needs to go to overtime to beat bottom dwellers, or am i mistaken? Should go back and look at the record and opponents since AD went out

AD is a top 10 player in the league, ofcourse they look worse when he's out. Doesn't change the fact that LeBron is playing at MVP level.

[LesGrossman]

KD's missed too many games. Doesn't matter if he's playing with or without Harden.
On the other hand, It's been AD who's been missing games and LeBron's played in all the games.

Wether you think LeBron's a worthy MVP condidate or not, doesn't matter. What matters is that those who are gonna vote have LeBron as the favourite at the moment. I know as someone who hates LeBron, it's gonna hurt. but you have to deal with it.

Its fine i dont care much at this point, but the spinning and bending out of shape to create a narrative that allows a weak move here but not there is just hilarious.

I understand that AD seems to be less of a factor, however how did the lakers fare since he went out? To me it seems like they went from a clear cut back-to-back candidate to a team that consistently needs to go to overtime to beat bottom dwellers, or am i mistaken? Should go back and look at the record and opponents since AD went out

AD is a top 10 player in the league, ofcourse they look worse when he's out. Doesn't change the fact that LeBron is playing at MVP level.

You miss my point. I was replying to a comment that stated a guy had KD at #1 but since Harden joined him, he is basically out of the race - which is inconsistent with him listing LeBron (and Kawhi, for that matter). Thats all i'm saying. If we make it part of the criteria that the candidate has to play on a team without elite help then LeBron must be excluded. We saw in the playoffs what AD can do. He is a bigger piece than Harden if he returns to his form. And LOL at the guys who try to prop Kyrie up to relevance to hurt KD.

[psimanic1]

If you dont exclude Kawhi, Durant, LeBron because of all stars/superstars playing with them, and exclude those players also then you cant really take team record into account, as it's not only them who brought them to that record.. Neither it should be looked because this season is kinda weird because of all covid issues and stuff, almost every team had players out due to Covid for some time, and probably will again.. Best thing to do, IMO, take that player out of the team and see how those lineups would play, how much VALUE, as in most VALUABLE player, does that player bring to their team.. Its neither BEST player, nor player thats exceeding expectations because any reason(age, injuries before this season...).

[LesGrossman]

All in all we have to admire the long-sightedness of the managers to invent a trophy that allows so much ambiguity to allow handing it to, basically, anyone because of no clear-cut criteria. Look at ROY, DPOY, MIP - much easier to rationalize. Kudos.

[yoyoboy]

I'd put it something like:

1. Embiid
2. Kawhi
3. LeBron
4. Jokic
5. Giannis
6. Curry
7. Gobert
8. Durant
9. Doncic
10. Lillard
HM: Davis, George, Conley, Middleton

[mademan]

If you dont exclude Kawhi, Durant, LeBron because of all stars/superstars playing with them, and exclude those players also then you cant really take team record into account, as it's not only them who brought them to that record.. Neither it should be looked because this season is kinda weird because of all covid issues and stuff, almost every team had players out due to Covid for some time, and probably will again.. Best thing to do, IMO, take that player out of the team and see how those lineups would play, how much VALUE, as in most VALUABLE player, does that player bring to their team.. Its neither BEST player, nor player thats exceeding expectations because any reason(age, injuries before this season...).

There is a level of precedence here that means more than the name of the award. Most valuable has never meant the actual most valuable. MVP has always been a combination of individual play, team record and narrative.

[Dupp]

A week ago legrossman said lebron should be disqualified because of AD. Then in the same post went on to say KD should be considered for the mvp.


Now he’s crying about someone saying the exact same thing but in reverse. Lol.

It has been consensual understanding that you cant get MVP with another MVP caliber player on your team. The numbers are shallow, everyone next to AD will get basically 7+ assists for free. LeBron plays literally no defense especially on help, he just stands around and allows guys to blow by without even stepping in - the reason the Lakers still have a huge defense is only AD. That is his self declared "coasting" so there really is no case for him to be MVP at this point. Cant do it all, use the coasting excuse when losing and then pretend you're going all out when talking MVP.

Jokic should be on top, but then KD has shown to be key for the Nets. If they end up on top of the east he is just as valid as a candidate. Embiid, Kawhi also above LeBron. Not sure about Giannis at this point, but we have to stick to the condition for MVP - its a regular season award, its not based on what guys did in the past, or in the post season. In the reg season Giannis is a monster, on both ends. So yeah probably above LeBron as well. If AD gets back to last seasons' shape even he should be above LeBron because he actually plays defense 48 min and not only for 1 or 2 marquee TV moments.

[LesGrossman]

A week ago legrossman said lebron should be disqualified because of AD. Then in the same post went on to say KD should be considered for the mvp.


Now he’s crying about someone saying the exact same thing but in reverse. Lol.

It has been consensual understanding that you cant get MVP with another MVP caliber player on your team. The numbers are shallow, everyone next to AD will get basically 7+ assists for free. LeBron plays literally no defense especially on help, he just stands around and allows guys to blow by without even stepping in - the reason the Lakers still have a huge defense is only AD. That is his self declared "coasting" so there really is no case for him to be MVP at this point. Cant do it all, use the coasting excuse when losing and then pretend you're going all out when talking MVP.

Jokic should be on top, but then KD has shown to be key for the Nets. If they end up on top of the east he is just as valid as a candidate. Embiid, Kawhi also above LeBron. Not sure about Giannis at this point, but we have to stick to the condition for MVP - its a regular season award, its not based on what guys did in the past, or in the post season. In the reg season Giannis is a monster, on both ends. So yeah probably above LeBron as well. If AD gets back to last seasons' shape even he should be above LeBron because he actually plays defense 48 min and not only for 1 or 2 marquee TV moments.

Absolutely not, you just didnt give the context. I say the exact same thing as back then. Either both are in, or both are out. Very simple. But nice try spinning that wheel...

[KyRo23]

A week ago legrossman said lebron should be disqualified because of AD. Then in the same post went on to say KD should be considered for the mvp.


Now he’s crying about someone saying the exact same thing but in reverse. Lol.

It has been consensual understanding that you cant get MVP with another MVP caliber player on your team. The numbers are shallow, everyone next to AD will get basically 7+ assists for free. LeBron plays literally no defense especially on help, he just stands around and allows guys to blow by without even stepping in - the reason the Lakers still have a huge defense is only AD. That is his self declared "coasting" so there really is no case for him to be MVP at this point. Cant do it all, use the coasting excuse when losing and then pretend you're going all out when talking MVP.

Jokic should be on top, but then KD has shown to be key for the Nets. If they end up on top of the east he is just as valid as a candidate. Embiid, Kawhi also above LeBron. Not sure about Giannis at this point, but we have to stick to the condition for MVP - its a regular season award, its not based on what guys did in the past, or in the post season. In the reg season Giannis is a monster, on both ends. So yeah probably above LeBron as well. If AD gets back to last seasons' shape even he should be above LeBron because he actually plays defense 48 min and not only for 1 or 2 marquee TV moments.

Absolutely not, you just didnt give the context. I say the exact same thing as back then. Either both are in, or both are out. Very simple. But nice try spinning that wheel...

Kinda looks like you said LeBron is out and KD is in... not both are in or both are out.

[Some smartguy]

I'd put it something like:

1. Embiid
2. Kawhi
3. LeBron
4. Jokic
5. Giannis
6. Curry
7. Gobert
8. Durant
9. Doncic
10. Lillard
HM: Davis, George, Conley, Middleton

Gobert? Conley? Unrealistic Jazz fan much? Middleton?