NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread)

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Who is leading the race for MVP? (players listed in alphabetical order)

Giannis Antetokounmpo
35
12%
Luka Doncic
24
8%
Anthony Edwards
2
1%
Joel Embiid
45
16%
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
50
18%
Tyrese Haliburton
0
No votes
Nikola Jokic
98
35%
Kawhi Leonard
6
2%
Jayson Tatum
13
5%
Other (Durant, Booker, Curry, Brunson, Sabonis, Fox, LeBron, Etc.)
10
4%
 
Total votes: 283

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#781 » by eyeatoma » Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:23 am

iggymcfrack wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
No, obviously no one wants that. What people want is for Embiid to play in the big games against tough opponents if he wants to win the MVP. So far, the Sixers have had 9 road games against playoff teams. Embiid’s played 3 of them. 3 out of 9 doesn’t give you full credit. Especially when Jokic, SGA, and Giannis have played in 123 out of 127 possible games over the course of the season.

Embiid stans wanna act like there’s some huge gap when healthy that makes up for him missing the majority of the Sixers’ tough games, but it’s just not true. Jokic leads in BPM by a decent margin. WS/48 is a virtual 3-way tie. If you look at cumulative stats, Embiid is 3rd in VORP and ranks closer to 17th than 1st. He’s 4th in WS and ranks closer to 18th than 1st. He’s 4th in EPM EW. He’s much closer to being tied with Jokic and SGA on a per minute basis than he is to being tied with them once you account for him missing 26% of the season.


What are you talking about? 1st off Embiid has played through multiple serious injuries in the playoffs which are the most meaningful games. Also he’s beaten the Nuggets, the Celtics, The Thunder and dropped a 50 bomb on the timberwolves all this season. These are big games that he suited up and showed out for, not to mention the Sixers are 25-6 when he plays which would be the #1 winning percentage in the league.

Embiid has been SIGNIFICANTLY better than Jokic and SGA or any NBA player this season. He has a PER of 34.4 HALF WAY THROUGH THE SEASON. Not to mention he’s 1st in scoring and ws/48.

In the 31 games he’s played this season he’s been by far the best NBA player this season despite what you say.


Embiid's record just looks impressive because he's missed so many of the difficult contests. Like I said he's sat out 6 of 9 road games against playoff teams. If we eliminate all road games against playoff teams, here are the records for each MVP candidate:

Jokic: 25-4
Embiid: 23-5
SGA: 22-5
Giannis: 25-6

And PER's the only stat he dominates. As mentioned further up, Jokic actually has the best combination of advanced stats even on a rate basis:
https://craftednba.com/player-traits/king

On a per game basis, SGA, Jokic, and Embiid are roughly equal with Giannis a little bit behind. When you account for Embiid missing more than twice as many games as the other 3 guys combined, it's more like SGA and Jokic in Tier 1 and Embiid and Giannis in Tier 2.



You really still doing this conspiracy bs?

Embiid has beaten the Nuggets, Wolves, Celtics, Magic, and Thunder. Literally the top 5 defenses of the NBA. Just stop at this point, you trying to make up a story here is embarrassing.

Also, EPM which is widely considered one of the best stats, is where Embiid actually dominates. Hmm, where is Jokic on that?

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Not to mention this is the type of defense he's playing essentially matching Gobert who is widely considered the front runner for DPOY, even though Embiid is basically the same.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#782 » by Lakers In 5 » Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:39 am

mkot wrote:
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Woah. Bow down to the soon to be 4x MVP.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#783 » by eyeatoma » Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:40 am

Demagoog wrote:
mkot wrote:
Read on Twitter
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Woah. Bow down to the soon to be 4x MVP.



What is Jokic's PER compared to Embiid's this season? :lol:
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#784 » by Lakers In 5 » Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:41 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Demagoog wrote:
mkot wrote:
Read on Twitter
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Woah. Bow down to the soon to be 4x MVP.



What is Jokic's PER compared to Embiid's this season? :lol:

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#785 » by eyeatoma » Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:51 am

Demagoog wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Demagoog wrote:Woah. Bow down to the soon to be 4x MVP.



What is Jokic's PER compared to Embiid's this season? :lol:

Image



Bro, you're obsessed lmao.

You think I'm supposed to feel bad about this. The GB is basically the Nuggets board. The level of love for him here on this board is beyond ridiculous. Genuinely creepy that you have that saved lol.

BTW, you said 4 time MVP, guessing, you're trying to say that Jokic should have won last year. And you have the audacity to screenshot that, when you're essentially creating fiction?

Also, let me enlighten you on that PER thing, because you refuse to actually look it up. Embiid is at 34.89 PER while Jokic is at 31.86.

By your logic guess we'll be crowning the next b2b MVP...
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#786 » by Lakers In 5 » Mon Jan 22, 2024 9:56 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Demagoog wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:

What is Jokic's PER compared to Embiid's this season? :lol:

Image



Bro, you're obsessed lmao.

You think I'm supposed to feel bad about this. The GB is basically the Nuggets board. The level of love for him here on this board is beyond ridiculous. Genuinely creepy that you have that saved lol.

BTW, you said 4 time MVP, guessing, you're trying to say that Jokic should have won last year. And you have the audacity to screenshot that, when you're essentially creating fiction?

Also, let me enlighten you on that PER thing, because you refuse to actually look it up. Embiid is at 34.89 PER while Jokic is at 31.86.

By your logic guess we'll be crowning the next b2b MVP...

That's not my screenshot. Carry on writing them epistles though, my amusement is peaking.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#787 » by Wolfgang630 » Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:06 am

It is great to see Centers dominating the league again. We haven’t seen this in forever where arguably the 2 best players have been Centers and dominate on the offensive end.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#788 » by eyeatoma » Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:13 am

Demagoog wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Demagoog wrote:Image



Bro, you're obsessed lmao.

You think I'm supposed to feel bad about this. The GB is basically the Nuggets board. The level of love for him here on this board is beyond ridiculous. Genuinely creepy that you have that saved lol.

BTW, you said 4 time MVP, guessing, you're trying to say that Jokic should have won last year. And you have the audacity to screenshot that, when you're essentially creating fiction?

Also, let me enlighten you on that PER thing, because you refuse to actually look it up. Embiid is at 34.89 PER while Jokic is at 31.86.

By your logic guess we'll be crowning the next b2b MVP...

That's not my screenshot. Carry on writing them epistles though, my amusement is peaking.
Doesn't matter if it's yours or not. You're digging it up which is the point.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#789 » by eyeatoma » Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:14 am

Wolfgang630 wrote:It is great to see Centers dominating the league again. We haven’t seen this in forever where arguably the 2 best players have been Centers and dominate on the offensive end.
Embiid does it on defense too. See my post above, he's on Gobert's level.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#790 » by Wolfgang630 » Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:15 am

The effect you see from Jokic.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#791 » by losmi » Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:36 am

eyeatoma wrote:
iggymcfrack wrote:
Hussien Fatal wrote:
What are you talking about? 1st off Embiid has played through multiple serious injuries in the playoffs which are the most meaningful games. Also he’s beaten the Nuggets, the Celtics, The Thunder and dropped a 50 bomb on the timberwolves all this season. These are big games that he suited up and showed out for, not to mention the Sixers are 25-6 when he plays which would be the #1 winning percentage in the league.

Embiid has been SIGNIFICANTLY better than Jokic and SGA or any NBA player this season. He has a PER of 34.4 HALF WAY THROUGH THE SEASON. Not to mention he’s 1st in scoring and ws/48.

In the 31 games he’s played this season he’s been by far the best NBA player this season despite what you say.


Embiid's record just looks impressive because he's missed so many of the difficult contests. Like I said he's sat out 6 of 9 road games against playoff teams. If we eliminate all road games against playoff teams, here are the records for each MVP candidate:

Jokic: 25-4
Embiid: 23-5
SGA: 22-5
Giannis: 25-6

And PER's the only stat he dominates. As mentioned further up, Jokic actually has the best combination of advanced stats even on a rate basis:
https://craftednba.com/player-traits/king

On a per game basis, SGA, Jokic, and Embiid are roughly equal with Giannis a little bit behind. When you account for Embiid missing more than twice as many games as the other 3 guys combined, it's more like SGA and Jokic in Tier 1 and Embiid and Giannis in Tier 2.



You really still doing this conspiracy bs?

Embiid has beaten the Nuggets, Wolves, Celtics, Magic, and Thunder. Literally the top 5 defenses of the NBA. Just stop at this point, you trying to make up a story here is embarrassing.

Also, EPM which is widely considered one of the best stats, is where Embiid actually dominates. Hmm, where is Jokic on that?

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Not to mention this is the type of defense he's playing essentially matching Gobert who is widely considered the front runner for DPOY, even though Embiid is basically the same.

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His stats are inflated due to his extremely easy personal schedule. The same goes for his career stats.

Also, it's amazing that Embiid's fans are now using advanced stats, after years and years of trying to discredit them.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#792 » by WestGOAT » Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:38 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:It is great to see Centers dominating the league again. We haven’t seen this in forever where arguably the 2 best players have been Centers and dominate on the offensive end.
Embiid does it on defense too. See my post above, he's on Gobert's level.

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It's ironic to have the nerve to complain GB is a Nuggets board, while you yourself are pushing false agendas to make Embiid look better than he is :lol:

Embiid is not on Gobert's level during the RS.

This season only:

Rudy Gobert https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/stat?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612750&Stat=PtsPer100PossOpponent
1347 minutes played
113.624 MIN DRtg when OFF
107.518 MIN DRtg when ON
-6.11 MIN Net DRtg ON/OFF

Joel Embiid https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/stat?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612755&Stat=PtsPer100PossOpponent
1059 minutes played
114.739 PHI DRtg when OFF
110.464 PHI DRtg when ON
-4.28 PHI Net DRtg ON/OFF

So not only is Gobert at least a tier higher than Embiid, but he plays substantially more minutes, so no way is Embiid on a similar level to Gobert when it comes to impacting the game defensively this season.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#793 » by eyeatoma » Mon Jan 22, 2024 10:54 am

WestGOAT wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Wolfgang630 wrote:It is great to see Centers dominating the league again. We haven’t seen this in forever where arguably the 2 best players have been Centers and dominate on the offensive end.
Embiid does it on defense too. See my post above, he's on Gobert's level.

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It's ironic to have the nerve to complain GB is a Nuggets board, while you yourself are pushing false agendas to make Embiid look better than he is

Embiid is not on Gobert's level during the RS.

This season only:

Rudy Gobert https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/stat?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612750&Stat=PtsPer100PossOpponent
1347 minutes played
113.624 MIN DRtg when OFF
107.518 MIN DRtg when ON
-6.11 MIN Net DRtg ON/OFF

Joel Embiid https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/stat?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612755&Stat=PtsPer100PossOpponent
1059 minutes played
114.739 PHI DRtg when OFF
110.464 PHI DRtg when ON
-4.28 PHI Net DRtg ON/OFF

So not only is Gobert at least a tier higher than Embiid, but he plays substantially more minutes, so no way is Embiid on a similar level to Gobert when it comes to impacting the game defensively this season.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#794 » by WestGOAT » Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:17 am

eyeatoma wrote:
WestGOAT wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:Embiid does it on defense too. See my post above, he's on Gobert's level.

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It's ironic to have the nerve to complain GB is a Nuggets board, while you yourself are pushing false agendas to make Embiid look better than he is

Embiid is not on Gobert's level during the RS.

This season only:

Rudy Gobert https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/stat?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612750&Stat=PtsPer100PossOpponent
1347 minutes played
113.624 MIN DRtg when OFF
107.518 MIN DRtg when ON
-6.11 MIN Net DRtg ON/OFF

Joel Embiid https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/stat?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612755&Stat=PtsPer100PossOpponent
1059 minutes played
114.739 PHI DRtg when OFF
110.464 PHI DRtg when ON
-4.28 PHI Net DRtg ON/OFF

So not only is Gobert at least a tier higher than Embiid, but he plays substantially more minutes, so no way is Embiid on a similar level to Gobert when it comes to impacting the game defensively this season.
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Pretty sure you know very well that rim protection is not the only part of defense, so this is misleading at best, but then again I won't bother cause there is not point engaging with someone who's sole purpose on this forum is to act like they are part of Embiid's PR team.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#795 » by eyeatoma » Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:31 am

WestGOAT wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
WestGOAT wrote:
It's ironic to have the nerve to complain GB is a Nuggets board, while you yourself are pushing false agendas to make Embiid look better than he is

Embiid is not on Gobert's level during the RS.

This season only:

Rudy Gobert https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/stat?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612750&Stat=PtsPer100PossOpponent
1347 minutes played
113.624 MIN DRtg when OFF
107.518 MIN DRtg when ON
-6.11 MIN Net DRtg ON/OFF

Joel Embiid https://www.pbpstats.com/on-off/nba/stat?Season=2023-24&SeasonType=Regular%2BSeason&TeamId=1610612755&Stat=PtsPer100PossOpponent
1059 minutes played
114.739 PHI DRtg when OFF
110.464 PHI DRtg when ON
-4.28 PHI Net DRtg ON/OFF

So not only is Gobert at least a tier higher than Embiid, but he plays substantially more minutes, so no way is Embiid on a similar level to Gobert when it comes to impacting the game defensively this season.
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Pretty sure you know very well that rim protection is not the only part of defense, so this is misleading at best, but then again I won't bother cause there is not point engaging with someone who's sole purpose on this forum is to act like they are part of Embiid's PR team.



Many media members say Embiid is playing at an elite defensive level this season.

This metric from December shows that as well

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In December, basically right below Gobert.

Defensive box plus minus, Embiid ranked 4th. Way higher than Gobert.

https://dunksandthrees.com/epm

Also Drating is also dependent on your teammates. There are far better defenders on the Wolves (McDaniels/Edwards), than in the Sixers starting lineup.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#796 » by stoo » Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:36 am

eyeatoma wrote:
Demagoog wrote:
mkot wrote:
Read on Twitter
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Woah. Bow down to the soon to be 4x MVP.



What is Jokic's PER compared to Embiid's this season? :lol:


Jokic 31.5
Embiid 31.4
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#797 » by eyeatoma » Mon Jan 22, 2024 11:55 am

stoo wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
Demagoog wrote:Woah. Bow down to the soon to be 4x MVP.



What is Jokic's PER compared to Embiid's this season?


Jokic 31.5
Embiid 31.4
Ummm no

Embiid is at 34.89 PER while Jokic is at 31.86.

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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#798 » by Lakers In 5 » Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:02 pm

Here's a wild PER for you guys: 21.6. I'll let you figure out which player it is.
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#799 » by stoo » Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:03 pm

eyeatoma wrote:
stoo wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:

What is Jokic's PER compared to Embiid's this season?


Jokic 31.5
Embiid 31.4
Ummm no

Embiid is at 34.89 PER while Jokic is at 31.86.

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ummm no

per basketball-reference:
Jokic 31.5
Embiid 31.4

per espn/hollinger
embiid 34.51
jokic 32.13

also, jokic played in 12 more games. and we know how rest contributes to production
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Re: NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2023-24 (Part 3: Son of Daughter of MVP thread) 

Post#800 » by eyeatoma » Mon Jan 22, 2024 12:14 pm

stoo wrote:
eyeatoma wrote:
stoo wrote:
Jokic 31.5
Embiid 31.4
Ummm no

Embiid is at 34.89 PER while Jokic is at 31.86.

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ummm no

per basketball-reference:
Jokic 31.5
Embiid 31.4

per espn/hollinger
embiid 34.51
jokic 32.13

also, jokic played in 12 more games. and we know how rest contributes to production
Look at the bbref link.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/e/embiijo01.html

Scroll to advanced stats.

Embiid is 34.4

See how it's bold that means it leads the league.

Now do the same for Joker. 32. Notice how it's not bold. Not leading the league.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jokicni01.html

/end discussion

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