MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint.

Moderators: Clav, Domejandro, ken6199, bisme37, Dirk, KingDavid, cupcakesnake, bwgood77, zimpy27, infinite11285

wowski
Pro Prospect
Posts: 985
And1: 592
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
 

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#81 » by wowski » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:03 pm

TheAdmiral wrote:
Stretch82 wrote:this is how it is. imagine him not handling the ball all the time, waiting for a pg to pass it to him. he might not even be in mvp consideration.


Same could be said about the best players in the game: LeBron and D-Wade. Take the ball out of their hands and they might not even be in MVP consideration.


They have been producing very well despite sharing the ball so that's a pretty bad example.

^^
Ice Man
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 26,970
And1: 16,009
Joined: Apr 19, 2011

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#82 » by Ice Man » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:04 pm

D-31 wrote:Why is Boozer playing the worst of his career against a middling defensive team? He doesn't have Deron obviously.


You must not be watching the series.
wowski
Pro Prospect
Posts: 985
And1: 592
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
 

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#83 » by wowski » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:05 pm

DunkedOn wrote:If this is the reaction Rose is getting for a couple of bad games, I fear the site might have to shut down if/when LeBron has a bad game in these playoffs.


Nah. Rose has overtaken him on the-most-hated-player category due to the homers who think he is the next jordan.

^^
D-31
Banned User
Posts: 1,436
And1: 1
Joined: Mar 22, 2006

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#84 » by D-31 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:09 pm

Ice Man wrote:
D-31 wrote:Why is Boozer playing the worst of his career against a middling defensive team? He doesn't have Deron obviously.


You must not be watching the series.


Some foul trouble has also limited Boozer, but overall it's on Rose.

DunkedOn wrote:If this is the reaction Rose is getting for a couple of bad games, I fear the site might have to shut down if/when LeBron has a bad game in these playoffs.


Rose has had 4 bad games. 2 of them were really bad. The other two were bailed out by the refs.
User avatar
spacemonkey
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,551
And1: 8,661
Joined: Nov 24, 2004

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#85 » by spacemonkey » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:20 pm

Rose already won the MVP?
jax98
RealGM
Posts: 36,697
And1: 3,015
Joined: Aug 31, 2003

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#86 » by jax98 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:22 pm

D-31 wrote:Hyperbole of the century? Good Lord.


Bulls need a true PG. They should try to use Watson/Rose in the backcourt to put Rose in his natural position.


Why is Boozer playing the worst of his career against a middling defensive team? He doesn't have Deron obviously. Rose is simply incapable of making other guys better.


One day, I wish you'd offer something of substance.
User avatar
Froob
Forum Mod - Celtics
Forum Mod - Celtics
Posts: 43,326
And1: 61,643
Joined: Nov 04, 2010
Location: ▼VII▲VIII
         

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#87 » by Froob » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:41 pm

Man pacers could of just finished the sweep if they didn't choke every time.
Image

Tommy Heinsohn wrote:The game is not over until they look you in the face and start crying.


RIP The_Hater
Leto
RealGM
Posts: 13,748
And1: 468
Joined: Jun 11, 2008

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#88 » by Leto » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:46 pm

orangeparka wrote:Never thought I'd create a Rose thread, but just had to say.

With his game tonight, for the playoffs, he's at 22 shots per game, shooting 35% on FGs and 17% on 3's (on 29 attempts), and only 6 assists per game/4 turnovers per game.

I really liked him (although it was affected by the Rose homers) in the regular season and looked forward to how he'd step it up in the playoffs, but I am just disgusted with his playoff performance and numbers. He's playing hella selfish out there and might actually be hurting his team a little bit. He could be playing a TON better.

They're the 1st seed FFS and yet their point differential with Indiana in 4 games is a measly +2.5, all very close games.

It's not even his 1st playoffs or anything, it's his 3rd.

All the talk about Rose leading the Bulls to wins and ****, I just don't see it. Bulls would be hella better off right now if he concentrated more on making plays instead of getting shots off. He seems way to concerned with making the shot himself and jacking threes right now.



1) Give Indy some credit for playing great defense.
2) The playoffs are not considered as part of the MVP voting. Its a regular season award--not a playoff award.
3) You're a Heat fan. Its not surprising you're Rose bashing.
Leto
RealGM
Posts: 13,748
And1: 468
Joined: Jun 11, 2008

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#89 » by Leto » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:48 pm

FisherSucks wrote:
Philly KDub wrote:
FisherSucks wrote:This is what more intelligent people have been saying all season long. Tom Thibodeu and team defense had much more to do with their wins than Rose.

Rose is a second tier star in this league.


That is very true. I totally agree with what you said but Rose played a huge part in the Bulls' victories in the first three games. He was clutch near the end of the game

Rose is shooting 35% in this series. You can plug Allen Iverson in there and he'd will them 3 wins against an 8th seed.


1) The playoffs have exactly zero to do with the regular season MVP award.
2) Allen Iverson was an MVP. Your point is refuted by your own comment.
Leto
RealGM
Posts: 13,748
And1: 468
Joined: Jun 11, 2008

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#90 » by Leto » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:51 pm

orangeparka wrote:
nitric0 wrote:Talk about overreacting to a few games. Continue on though


This is the PLAYOFFS. By the same logic a couple of playoff games shouldn't matter right? :roll:


They have zero to do with the reglar season MVP race. If you want to crown Lebron as the best playoff performer, go ahead. But he wasn't the MVP of the regular season, IMO, and in most people's opinion.
User avatar
Conclusion
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,555
And1: 8
Joined: Jun 28, 2010

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#91 » by Conclusion » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:52 pm

dezsays wrote:Stop using /b/ lingo outside of /b/

it doesnt make you cool
Image


Rose 4 MVP

I am extremely disturbed by this post.
Tay
Senior
Posts: 604
And1: 74
Joined: Jun 25, 2001
Location: New Jersey
   

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#92 » by Tay » Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:54 pm

I am excite!
User avatar
WD
RealGM
Posts: 16,937
And1: 3,249
Joined: Oct 04, 2003
Location: Here
     

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#93 » by WD » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:03 pm

Why would anyone be disappointed in a guy that has a bad game? Just don't understand the "what have you done for me in the last play/game" mentality. I am not a bulls fan, but I appreciate talent and rose is not a disappointment, he had a bad game, they lost..
#HEATLifer
UGA Hayes
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 31,645
And1: 20,441
Joined: Jan 05, 2004
Location: real gm

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#94 » by UGA Hayes » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:05 pm

For me the issue is also context. I dont see how anyone could watch both the Orlando and and Chicago series and not realize, Bulls supporting players are much better than Orlando's and Howard is way better than people were giving him credit for, especially on offense where he has finally developed a very good post game, to the extent that if voters were just forced to watch Orlando and chicago during the regular season, I really doubt many would have given the MVP to Rose. I mean if you are going to acknwoldege that Dwight is the best defensive player in the game, second best rebounder, and that Rose is neither, and then realize That Dwight is arguably the most improved offensive player as well, then what else is there. I think the voters just don't want to admit that they didn't watch Orlando b/c they are boring.
Tave
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,356
And1: 1,356
Joined: Feb 09, 2011
 

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#95 » by Tave » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:17 pm

WD wrote:Why would anyone be disappointed in a guy that has a bad game? Just don't understand the "what have you done for me in the last play/game" mentality. I am not a bulls fan, but I appreciate talent and rose is not a disappointment, he had a bad game, they lost..


Exactly. Plus he was hobbling around on a gimpy ankle for half the game, and playing his heart out the whole time. The shots just didn't fall.
Tave
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,356
And1: 1,356
Joined: Feb 09, 2011
 

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#96 » by Tave » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:25 pm

UGA Hayes wrote:For me the issue is also context. I dont see how anyone could watch both the Orlando and and Chicago series and not realize, Bulls supporting players are much better than Orlando's and Howard is way better than people were giving him credit for, especially on offense where he has finally developed a very good post game, to the extent that if voters were just forced to watch Orlando and chicago during the regular season, I really doubt many would have given the MVP to Rose. I mean if you are going to acknwoldege that Dwight is the best defensive player in the game, second best rebounder, and that Rose is neither, and then realize That Dwight is arguably the most improved offensive player as well, then what else is there. I think the voters just don't want to admit that they didn't watch Orlando b/c they are boring.


Dwight isn't the most improved offensive player. He added a few moves that he doesn't use that often, he goes to his left more, and he averaged all of 2 ppg more than he did 07-09 and 4 ppg more than last year.
Bucksfans1and2
Banned User
Posts: 16,041
And1: 189
Joined: Jun 28, 2008

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#97 » by Bucksfans1and2 » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:26 pm

I've been dubbed President of the, "I Hate Derrick Rose Fan Club", and as such I would like to make 6 points.

1) The point about Thibs offensive system not being the greatest are very on point. That Orating is very inflated by the number of offensive rebounds that the Bulls get. If the Bulls rebounded at average levels their Orating would be a lot lower. If you take the higher rebounding numbers into account, they really aren't all that efficent of an offense. I think it's a case of Orlando Magic syndrome. Van Gundy expects his star to bail him out and make the offense look competent, so he doesn't spend much time worrying about offense and works almost exclusively on defense (not that it does any good). Thibs probably does something very similar.

2) Rose is a PG. He got 8 assists this year and ran a very watered down offense very well. Boozer is a very talented but very flawed offensive player. Boozer needs the ball moving towards the basket, look at the percentage of baskets he's assisted on if you don't believe me. In my personal opinion, the biggest flaw in Rose's game is that he isn't a great PnR point guard yet. If he could punish teams for leaving Boozer to double him, he would be the clear cut best point guard in the game. Even with that (large) flaw in his game, Rose is still an excellent distributor. When Rose isn't on the floor, the Bulls average .91 points per possession. When Rose is on the floor that number shoots up to 1.13. Stop saying that Rose doesn't make the offense better because he absolutely does, and anybody that's saying differently is either incompetent or working towards an agenda.

3) Rose's defense while still not All NBA level has made a significant jump. He used to be a below average defender, now he's in the upper echlon of point guards defensively as well as offensively. His horizontal quickness has gotten better in a way that I've really never seen a player at any level make. The other thing that pushed Rose's defense is the coaching change. Thibs has the Bulls playing great defense and that includes calling out screens which is one of Rose's big flaws from last year. He couldn't get through a screen th save his skin. This year the team calls out the screen far enough in advance that Rose can go under it and then use his ridiculous explosiveness to get up and challenge a shooter. Normally I think using Blocks per game is the most ridiculous stat ever, but Rose's ability to get in the face of shooters after going under screens is one of the reasons that he has the most blocks for a PG. He still lacks some of the defensive anticipatory skills that great guard defenders have, but very few players in today's NBA do, so that's not that big of an issue.

4) The Keith Bogans conundrum is one of those things that really baffles to me. The guy is barely a role player and yet he starts for the Bulls. If the Bulls ever got a ball handler at, SG like Carlos Delfino for example, that could take pressure off of Rose, the NBA would be in trouble. As it is, Bogans is a guy who's got a decent 3pt-shoot. Is a great defender, and sucks everywhere else.

5) As impressive as Rose's season this year has been, he still has a chance to get even better. Assuming the lockout doesn't screw everything up, Rose has a chance to fix his small flaws. Another season working on the 3pt shoot would be awesome for him, and then more importantly, working with Boozer and to a lesser extent Noah on the PnR situations. Boozer's injury really limited the Bulls chance to build chemistry early in the year. An offseason in the film room with Thibs ala Rondo would really fix any flaws Rose has on defense.

6) Dwight Howard deserved MVP
Ice Man
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 26,970
And1: 16,009
Joined: Apr 19, 2011

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#98 » by Ice Man » Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:41 pm

As a side note, one conclusion of this thread is that Thibs needs to hire a strong offensive coach and give that guy the reins. Great head coaches are hands-on at what they are good at, and they hire quality for what they are not good at. Thibs knows how to prevent baskets, not make them.

Hell, Phil Jackson hired both a strong offensive coach (Tex Winter) and a strong defensive coach (Johnny Bach) when he was a new head coach. He didn't try to do it all himself on either end.
User avatar
orangeparka
Head Coach
Posts: 6,580
And1: 187
Joined: Apr 23, 2010

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#99 » by orangeparka » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:24 pm

Leto wrote:
orangeparka wrote:Never thought I'd create a Rose thread, but just had to say.

With his game tonight, for the playoffs, he's at 22 shots per game, shooting 35% on FGs and 17% on 3's (on 29 attempts), and only 6 assists per game/4 turnovers per game.

I really liked him (although it was affected by the Rose homers) in the regular season and looked forward to how he'd step it up in the playoffs, but I am just disgusted with his playoff performance and numbers. He's playing hella selfish out there and might actually be hurting his team a little bit. He could be playing a TON better.

They're the 1st seed FFS and yet their point differential with Indiana in 4 games is a measly +2.5, all very close games.

It's not even his 1st playoffs or anything, it's his 3rd.

All the talk about Rose leading the Bulls to wins and ****, I just don't see it. Bulls would be hella better off right now if he concentrated more on making plays instead of getting shots off. He seems way to concerned with making the shot himself and jacking threes right now.



1) Give Indy some credit for playing great defense.
2) The playoffs are not considered as part of the MVP voting. Its a regular season award--not a playoff award.
3) You're a Heat fan. Its not surprising you're Rose bashing.


1) They are playing some decent defense.
2) Never said he didn't deserve MVP. I actually like Dwight over him, but Rose is a very close second.
3) So what? Are all Heat fans supposed to hate Rose or something? Not like he plays for the Celtics.

Again, I actually like Derrick Rose and thought he had a great season. I'm just tired of all the BS about him being a top 5 player (being fully credited for wins) and the severe homerism of some Bulls fans on him. Seriously none of this would be an issue if Rose homerism wasn't so strong. (Both here and in the media)
Image
User avatar
orangeparka
Head Coach
Posts: 6,580
And1: 187
Joined: Apr 23, 2010

Re: MVP Derrick Rose, I am disappoint. 

Post#100 » by orangeparka » Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:25 pm

Leto wrote:
orangeparka wrote:
nitric0 wrote:Talk about overreacting to a few games. Continue on though


This is the PLAYOFFS. By the same logic a couple of playoff games shouldn't matter right? :roll:


They have zero to do with the reglar season MVP race. If you want to crown Lebron as the best playoff performer, go ahead. But he wasn't the MVP of the regular season, IMO, and in most people's opinion.


Again, when did I say Rose didn't deserve MVP? And goddamnit I didn't make one **** mention of LeBron. I can appreciate other players even if they don't play for the Heat.
Image

Return to The General Board