Is this a travel?

[TheOUTLAW]

I grew up watching Kevin McHale and the guy made a living with a move called the up and under. That is what Kobe is doing except he is adding a 360 spin. He pivots with his left and jumps off of his right to shoot. As long as he releases the ball before either foot lands, it is not a travel.

Up and Under, one of my favorite moves.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81Hgma08Mo0&feature=related[/youtube]

He is clearly jumping off of both feet here and is not therefore traveling.

What some of you seem to be saying that he could have stopped and just left his original pivot in the air and that therefore wouldn't have been traveling. That's patently ridiculous.

[andyo]

I was the first in this thread to say it wasn't a travel but I stand corrected. The NBA clarified the travel rule last season:

c. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player’s hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.

He comes to a legal stop after his pivot foot is established. His pivot foot leaves the ground and the ball is still in his hands.

[andyo]

Not a travel.

If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.

It sounds like a travel based on that rule, explain?

[deepblueday]

That's actually referring to dribbling only. Coming to a legal stop with an active dribble.

[TheOUTLAW]

He shoots before his pivot foot comes back in to the ground, so legal play in every major rule set.

lol... So if you establish your right foot as pivot foot, you can hop along on your one, left leg all the way down the court and it isn't a travel?

As others have said, the rule as quoted above takes for granted that once a pivot foot has been established, it cannot be changed, and the only way to "leave it" is to jump to shoot or pass. Switching your pivot to then jump to shoot or pass is a travel.

What are you talking about? He NEVER established his right foot as his pivot foot. Here is another example of Kobe doing what he did in the gif, it's perfectly legal. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vqvg9NgP5uw[/youtube]

Kobe actually traveled here as well because he dragged his pivot. However, that was clearly different from the original gif. Kobe jumped off of both feet in this video.

[venky]

Not a travel.

If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.

It sounds like a travel based on that rule, explain?

He raised his left foot, which was his pivot foot, and then shot the ball before his left foot hit the ground.

[deepblueday]

Although actually it is somewhat telling, because clearly a player is not allowed to step into a dribble off their pivot foot.

[driver]

Jumping off 2 or 1 foot is totally up to the player at that point. In that vid above, I'm sure the person feels much more comfortable jumping off 2 feet (and he should, you get better shooting balance). The most important fact is, when you are in the air, two rules of traveling will come into play.
Rule D: Cannot land on that pivot foot coming down. That's a travel.
Rule H: Cannot land on the opposite foot. You are then hopping. That's a travel.
If you land on both, heck you're committing both at once.

I didn't even know Kevin Mchale used this move. I sure as hell know it ain't Kobe's move. After watching a nice vid of McHale's plays, I also saw he too does both with either jumping off 1 or 2 feet. Just depends on how sturdy he is and where is defender was.

Players SHOULD use this move. The fact that we're listing names of people are all-stars and hall of famers, it tells me such great footwork are only possessed by truly good players. I know this move is done Kobe, Hakeem, Jordan, McHale (now that I saw it) and probably other great players. Joe Schmo doesn't learn this move and that's what sets a great player from a nobody.

andyo: That rule is a good one but that pertains to when a player receives it on the move while dribbling. You "can't jump" is what you're saying. That doesn't even make sense if you say it that way.

[TheOUTLAW]

Jumping off 2 or 1 foot is totally up to the player at that point. In that vid above, I'm sure the person feels much more comfortable jumping off 2 feet (and he should, you get better shooting balance). The most important fact is, when you are in the air, two rules of traveling will come into play.
Rule D: Cannot land on that pivot foot coming down. That's a travel.
Rule H: Cannot land on the opposite foot. You are then hopping. That's a travel.
If you land on both, heck you're committing both at once.

I didn't even know Kevin Mchale used this move. I sure as hell know it ain't Kobe's move. After watching a nice vid of McHale's plays, I also saw he too does both with either jumping off 1 or 2 feet. Just depends on how sturdy he is and where is defender was.

Players SHOULD use this move. The fact that we're listing names of people are all-stars and hall of famers, it tells me such great footwork are only possessed by truly good players. I know this move is done Kobe, Hakeem, Jordan, McHale (now that I saw it) and probably other great players. Joe Schmo doesn't learn this move and that's what sets a great player from a nobody.

andyo: That rule is a good one but that pertains to when a player receives it on the move while dribbling. You "can't jump" is what you're saying. That doesn't even make sense if you say it that way.

Sure you can jump off of 1 or 2 feet provided that the one foot that you jump off of is your pivot foot.

[Debaser]

I was the first in this thread to say it wasn't a travel but I stand corrected. The NBA clarified the travel rule last season:

c. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player’s hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.

He comes to a legal stop after his pivot foot is established. His pivot foot leaves the ground and the ball is still in his hands.

That rule doesn't make sense in this situation. Let's say Kobe decides to shoot off of both feet at the same time, which many of us agree is legal. According to rule (c), it's a travel since he didn't release the ball before lifting his pivot foot.

[blacktopking319]

I was the first in this thread to say it wasn't a travel but I stand corrected. The NBA clarified the travel rule last season:

c. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player’s hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.

He comes to a legal stop after his pivot foot is established. His pivot foot leaves the ground and the ball is still in his hands.

kobe is not starting a dribble

[Pimpwerx]

It's legal. Pivots on the left, jumps off on the right. What's the difference between jumping off one foot and two feet? A jumpstop establishes both feet as the second step, so I don't see the difference in making that second step with a single foot. It's not like pivoting around count as steps until the pivot foot lifts. It's legit. PEACE.

[edquantum]

Yes it is.

[andyo]

I was the first in this thread to say it wasn't a travel but I stand corrected. The NBA clarified the travel rule last season:

c. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player’s hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.

He comes to a legal stop after his pivot foot is established. His pivot foot leaves the ground and the ball is still in his hands.

kobe is not starting a dribble

He did start a dribble, he dribbled the ball once and than came to a complete stop- established his pivot foot, and lifted it before he released the ball. Look at the gif again

[nba4you]

i'm pretty sure Kobe learned that move from Olajuwon during last summer.

Most of Hakeem's moves are travels...they just look so smooth.

Kobe's move was just as smooth which is probably why he got away with a travel.

[Mikistan]

This discussion again?

How many times does the GB have to do this. You are looking at the wrong part of the rulebook. That rule is about "starting a dribble" as another poster said.

If you look farther there is a part about leaving the pivot foot. The ball must be passed or shot BEFORE the pivot foot comes BACK DOWN to the ground.

Think about it this way. Kobe establishes his pivot foot with the first spin move (his back to the basket) going baseline. If he jumped and shot at that point it is no different than if he spins again and shoots the way he did.

It is not a travel until his pivot foot comes down again. It is two steps until that foot comes down to make a third.

Legal move.

[andyo]

I was the first in this thread to say it wasn't a travel but I stand corrected. The NBA clarified the travel rule last season:

c. In starting a dribble after (1) receiving the ball while standing still, or (2) coming to a legal stop, the ball must be out of the player’s hand before the pivot foot is raised off the floor.

He comes to a legal stop after his pivot foot is established. His pivot foot leaves the ground and the ball is still in his hands.

That rule doesn't make sense in this situation. Let's say Kobe decides to shoot off of both feet at the same time, which many of us agree is legal. According to rule (c), it's a travel since he didn't release the ball before lifting his pivot foot.

No, I think your interpretting the rule wrong. If Kobe "decided to shoot off both feet at the same time", it would be legal because

d. If a player, with the ball in his possession, raises his pivot foot off the floor, he must pass or shoot before his pivot foot returns to the floor. If he drops the ball while in the air, he may not be the first to touch the ball.

Rule d) says he must shoot or past once his pivot foot is raised off the floor. Look in the .gif, he takes an extra step after his pivot foot leaves and THEN shoots.

[7-Day Dray]

No more a travel than half of Hakeem's moves lol. Flashy enough to get away with.

This

[grimballer]

however he SWITCHED his pviot.

if what ur saying is true than a palyer could:

receive the ball in the post

establish his left foot as pivot

do couple of jab steps with his right foot

then take a big step or hop with his right foot without dribbling

n as long as his left foot is in the air its not a travel?

come on

From what I gather, you're allowed to step (i.e. lift your pivot foot as the rule book says), not hop (which would be an up and down).

It's not called switching your pivot feet. That would be like calling a 2 step lay-up establishing two pivot feet.

its different

2 step layup allows u to take 2 steps in continuation. ur not allowed to take onr step, stop then take another.

what kobe did is pick up his dribble, established his left foot as pivot, snips, plant his right foot, then lift his left (pivot) foot.

thats a travel.

[droponov]

A nation of illiterates. People can't interpret a simple sports rule. Some of the stuff said is so bizarre I can't even comprehend what people are trying to say. Changing pivot foot? travel because he didn't jump off two feet? "sure you can lift your pivot foot. to jump, not to switch your pivot foot"? "the question that needs to be asked is if the jump counts as a step"? What the heck these things are supposed to mean? Every time a thread like this appears here I know I'm going to get depressed. I mean, "changing pivot foot"?

This is why nobody in his right mind should take the complains about the lack of quality of NBA officiating seriously. The people complaining are the ones who don't understand the most basic rules of the game.