Derrick Rose should've never gotten a 3 point shot

[Mahoney_jr]

Interestingly Rose increased the number of attempted 3s per game each month last season and topped it in the playoffs. The only reason Rose became MVP was his great efficiency near the basket, not the 3-pointer. His great stretch in January was without lots of 3s. You could get the impression, that Rose started to shoot the 3 more because of that great stretch. I'm with the OP. Rose would be better off with 3.5 3FGA per game.

[alucryts]

Interestingly Rose increased the number of attempted 3s per game each month last season and topped it in the playoffs. The only reason Rose became MVP was his great efficiency near the basket, not the 3-pointer. His great stretch in January was without lots of 3s. You could get the impression, that Rose started to shoot the 3 more because of that great stretch. I'm with the OP. Rose would be better off with 3.5 3FGA per game.

3.5 would be a good number I agree. It is clearly Rose's epiphany when it came to drawing FTA that was the cause of his MVP season and not his 3 point shot.

[DreDay]

What surprised me was Rose's 2 Free Throw Attempts were when they had to foul him when Curry was injured so he could go off.

[Sebastian]

What surprised me was Rose's 2 Free Throw Attempts were when they had to foul him when Curry was injured so he could go off.

This is part of a larger problem, not just Rose, and that's the Bulls offense playing lackadaisically, unfocused, and not executing in the half-court (aside from Deng). Rose is playing differently, trying to be more of a quarterback, and it isn't working thus far. It doesn't help that none of our bigs can score.

[Don Draper]

The Bulls need a 2 guard that can allow Rose to play off the ball more.

[BH8]

Falling in love with the 3 is one of the worst things that could happen to Rose. It literally destroys players. Jordan never fell in love with it, but guys like Rasheed, Rip and many others became far less effective once they "discovered" the 3pt shot.

Rose should work on his post and mid-range game, not the 3pt shot.

[fishnc]

Thread title immediately made me think of this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fb6n_nT8eLY&sns=em[/youtube]

[coldgrip1]

People are ridiculous. I'm not a Bulls fan but his 3 pt shot has improved greatly and he will need it in his arsenal.

This is not 2010 anymore. People are tripple teaming and packing the lane on him. He needed to develop a long range shot to keep defenses honest. It will prolong his career.

[Big Dee Chi-Born]

The one problem I've always had with TS% when it comes to explaining away 3-point shooting is that a guy shooting 10/30 from 3 is technically just as efficient as 10/20 from 2.

But there are negatives from 3's that you don't always get from 2's, such as long rebounds which lead to opponent fastbreaks, and a less reliable offensive player.

It's all about taking the right kinds of 3's. Even a midrange jumper that one normally shoots at around 40% can be better than a 3-point shot, so long as the midrange jumper is open and in the flow of the offense.

Rose should never have a possession where he dribbles around the 3-point line, doesn't pass, and then shoots a 3. That happened a few times last night, and that's something a guy like Baron Davis does. Its just not a good habit.

People can post all those advanced stats to prove that he's more efficient but it will never tell the true story like you said! The leak outs off long rebounds, the horrible shot selection, the change in mentality, less fouls drawn and most important to me is the change in muscle memory!

I heard people saying that D-Wade would be a more dynamic scorer with a three point shot too! It's all B.S.... I'll never forget MJ's words after that game 1 performance in the 92 Finals. He said that shooting threes makes you tend to go looking for that line, it changes the way you approach the game. And it took away from his natural attacking game and creating for others.

Starting around the 1:30 mark
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QnJ1Z5pGKQ[/youtube]

I hate for D-Rose just like I hated it for D-Wade. The three point shot should be saved for specialist who cant do what they do!!!

[Tim_Hardawayy]

The three point shot should be saved for specialist who cant do what they do!!!

That's the biggest point here imo that people neglect I think at times. Even if a 3-pointer is more efficient than a midrange jumper, you have guys that shoot it better, like a Korver, or a Deng, or even Rip. If the possession is going nowhere, create a 3 for one of those guys instead of taking it yourself.

[HINrichPolice]

The reason why he don't get to the line because he doesn't take contact. He twists and contorts his body. He doesn't flop.

Although not relevant to the thread, I just wanted to "edit" this comment to make it more accurate.

Having said that, Rose has now learned to flop a little more to draw fouls. It's something he always wanted to avoid doing, but I'm pretty sure he just got fed up and now does it like any other all-star. In fact, there's a precise point in last season where Rose said he "figured it out". After that game, you see his FTA steadily climb for the rest of the season.

[Big Dee Chi-Born]

No disrespect to you or your shot chart but I've watched every game of Rose's career (probably just like you) and I don't care what that thing shows. Call me a caveman or whatever for not welcoming those advanced metrics, but watching Rose play is becoming more and more puzzling with each passing game. Yeah, he might of been more efficient last year, but I liked his second year better. I know his FT's were down, but he didn't chuck three's and his midrange shot was deadly and he stayed with it. There was a point last season where he was averaging 7's three's a game! I hate watching him play like this and don't care if it did raise his efficiency. He needs to go back to the midrange game, attack the lane and STOP launching three's

In his 2nd year Rose barely got to the line and shot lots of long 2 point jumpers, the most inefficient shot in the game. I liked his shot selection more than last year, but his play as a whole was better last year.

I believe his play was better because his mentality was different under Thibs than under Vinny! Thibbs basically told him to play to his strengths, which is to score the basketball! D-Rose is not a traditional pg no matter how hard he tries to be humble and inclusive. He's better when he's attacking! He was doing way too much passing his first two season with the Bulls. I believe that's the big difference in his game and not the three's being chucked. JMO

[BH8]

People are ridiculous. I'm not a Bulls fan but his 3 pt shot has improved greatly and he will need it in his arsenal.

This is not 2010 anymore. People are tripple teaming and packing the lane on him. He needed to develop a long range shot to keep defenses honest. It will prolong his career.

The problem is that his shot doesn't "keep defenses honest" - defenses are praying for Rose to take the 3 and he's playing into their hands. Jordan never fell into that trap.

[alucryts]

No disrespect to you or your shot chart but I've watched every game of Rose's career (probably just like you) and I don't care what that thing shows. Call me a caveman or whatever for not welcoming those advanced metrics, but watching Rose play is becoming more and more puzzling with each passing game. Yeah, he might of been more efficient last year, but I liked his second year better. I know his FT's were down, but he didn't chuck three's and his midrange shot was deadly and he stayed with it. There was a point last season where he was averaging 7's three's a game! I hate watching him play like this and don't care if it did raise his efficiency. He needs to go back to the midrange game, attack the lane and STOP launching three's

In his 2nd year Rose barely got to the line and shot lots of long 2 point jumpers, the most inefficient shot in the game. I liked his shot selection more than last year, but his play as a whole was better last year.

I believe his play was better because his mentality was different under Thibs than under Vinny! Thibbs basically told him to play to his strengths, which is to score the basketball! D-Rose is not a traditional pg no matter how hard he tries to be humble and inclusive. He's better when he's attacking! He was doing way too much passing his first two season with the Bulls. I believe that's the big difference in his game and not the three's being chucked. JMO

This is a good point. I also see the side of the argument that says taking more threes makes him fall in love with them. Clearly that has become the case. If he can't shoot them in moderation, I don't think he should shoot them.

[JimmyTD3]

I think all of these mathematical/statistical stuff is way, way, wayyyy over-complicating things.

D-Rose needs a 3 point shot for 2 reason:

1) Longevity. See = Bryant, Kobe (A career 33.8% 3pt shooter who'se only broken 36% three times, don't hear too many people talking about how his 3PT shooting hurts his game)

2) Defenders have to respect the shot. If you show that you are willing to take the 3, and especially if you show that you LIKE to take the 3, defender's can't just sag off on you and cut off your drives. With no 3-point shot, people will play him like they play Rondo = we know you're not going to shoot from long range, so we'll sag off 5 feet, and dare you to drive.

[CablexDeadpool]

As alucryts said, there is a massive hole in your math, so it's hard to continue trying to argue this.

Stop using TS for Drose it doesn't apply.

Someone really ought to sig this.

Sig it and there is no massive hole in my math, i just said, he would be better off taking his midrange jumpers than 3 point shots. Which was the argument. So therefore I said, if he never took 3 point shots, and shot the midrange jumper as efficient as 2010, then he would be more efficient if he upped his number of free throw attempts and maintained his 85 percentage while taking a high number of free throws.

TS is a flawed stat to say someone was more efficient from the field. Meaning no fts. TS include FTs. TS is about more efficient scoring the ball, that is why it includes FTs.

TS is overrated because I can show you Drose and DWade TS and they are exactly the same, but one player shoots more efficiently from the line and another shoots efficient from the field. One gets to the line more and the other takes 5 3s a game.

Both got 550 TS percentage last season. Tell me which player is more efficient from the field using TS shooting?

eFG is a better state to measure efficiency and effective from the field. Derrick Rose eFG was the same as his Rookie Season and higher his 2010 season.

eFG don't count FTs.


and TS does not equal offensive efficiency and effectiveness from the field meaning 2 point shots and 3 points. It means efficiency scoring the ball through 3 point shooting, FTs and 2 point shots.

Derrick rose was an efficient scorer last season because of FREE THROWS. That's my argument, my argument is that the 3 point shot hinders his game because he's a better MIDRANGE SHOOTER THAN 3 POINT SHOOTER.


STOP RELYING ON TS, IT DOESN'T APPLY IN THIS SITUATION.

[CablexDeadpool]

I think all of these mathematical/statistical stuff is way, way, wayyyy over-complicating things.

D-Rose needs a 3 point shot for 2 reason:

1) Longevity. See = Bryant, Kobe (A career 33.8% 3pt shooter who'se only broken 36% three times, don't hear too many people talking about how his 3PT shooting hurts his game)

2) Defenders have to respect the shot. If you show that you are willing to take the 3, and especially if you show that you LIKE to take the 3, defender's can't just sag off on you and cut off your drives. With no 3-point shot, people will play him like they play Rondo = we know you're not going to shoot from long range, so we'll sag off 5 feet, and dare you to drive.

oh really, how many times u seen Kobe come down the court and chuck a 3?


Jordan never had a 3 point and played til he was 40 and was still dropping 40 points on people without a 3 point shot.

[Ettorefm]

3pt shooting is for specialists. The NBA has changed
.
In the past, the best players took this shots. Now, with the changes of rules to benefit perimeter players, it's not that important for a franchise player to shoot 4-5 threes a game. It's better to try driving to the lane
.
Also, if you're the franchise player, people will play tight on you and double from time to time. It's JUST STUPID to try shooting from 3pt range with a great perimeter defender locking you up and guys ready to double you. You should drive and then kick to some scrub score the open 3

.
Give the trifecta to the Korvers and James jones of the league. Rose should never try more than 2.5 average

[GreenHat]

I think all of these mathematical/statistical stuff is way, way, wayyyy over-complicating things.

D-Rose needs a 3 point shot for 2 reason:

1) Longevity. See = Bryant, Kobe (A career 33.8% 3pt shooter who'se only broken 36% three times, don't hear too many people talking about how his 3PT shooting hurts his game)

2) Defenders have to respect the shot. If you show that you are willing to take the 3, and especially if you show that you LIKE to take the 3, defender's can't just sag off on you and cut off your drives. With no 3-point shot, people will play him like they play Rondo = we know you're not going to shoot from long range, so we'll sag off 5 feet, and dare you to drive.

oh really, how many times u seen Kobe come down the court and chuck a 3?


Jordan never had a 3 point and played til he was 40 and was still dropping 40 points on people without a 3 point shot.

Oh come on, Jordan didn't play until he was 40. He kind of skipped a few years here and there.

And when he was 40 he was the definition of inefficient.

Shooting 3s does help with longevity. It's a lot easier on the body.

[High0ctane21]

5 out of his 8 three point attempts came in the 2nd half yesterday when it was a blow out. I don't blame him at all for attempting them.