After Ricky Rubio, Jonas Valanciunas=International Superstar

[sca]

Wow Mufasa, I always thought you were a good poster but you disappoint me with this thread. Val and Kristic have like nothing similar at all. Krstic was nowhere near Val's level athletically, defensively or rebounding-wise before or post-injury. First you compare Val's ceiling to Gortat, and then Krstic? What does Gortat and Krstic have in common other than being white European basketball players that play at the center position?

They are about the same height and are good midrange players

The difference is Gortat has a great physical imprint on the game through his strength and mobility and his athleticism which looks to me to be a level better than Valanciunas'. Krstic is physically invisible but gets by on his skill

Krstic was also a very good player pre injury and it's not an insult that Jval could be "only" Krstic

Offensive potential =/= potential, though.

Val's already a better rebounder and defender than Krstic he ever been, pre or post injury. So your argument is false.

[droponov]

Entirely? Heh. Anyway, the point is that his ceiling now is quite higher than Krstic.

I never said his ceiling is Krstic

I said his ceiling is Gortat months before last year's draft

You said that you'd change his ceiling to Gortat if he had strength - that you keep saying he doesn't have. Don't lie.

[sca]

I'm really trying hard to see Mufasa's point, but I keep on failing. I'm guessing he wanted the Raptors to draft another player back then, and is bitter now because of that.

[Dr Positivity]

Like I said I think Valanciunas is a fine enough prospect. I'm not saying he's a bust. I think most likely scenario is something like 11/9/1.5 and his upside is 15/11/2. Which could make it the right pick over guys like Knight and Kemba and Jimmer because a B level C is >>>>> B level combo guard 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.

What I don't see is the star talent, he simply doesn't have dynamic athleticism, skill or bball IQ and without one of those things you're holding a business class ticket basically every time

[Dr Positivity]

Entirely? Heh. Anyway, the point is that his ceiling now is quite higher than Krstic.

I never said his ceiling is Krstic

I said his ceiling is Gortat months before last year's draft

You said that you'd change his ceiling to Gortat if he had strength - that you keep saying he doesn't have. Don't lie.

When I say "ceiling", it includes things like "If he bulks up in strength". Ceiling is about development to the max, and that often includes physical development

[droponov]

But not "if he develops a low post game"? How does that work?

[droponov]

I'm really trying hard to see Mufasa's point, but I keep on failing. I'm guessing he wanted the Raptors to draft another player back then, and is bitter now because of that.

He said Valanciunas was a worse prospect than Tristan Thompson. Or "Vucevic with much less offense". That Biyombo, Vesely and Montiejunas were better prospects. Obviously Kanter too. Markieff Morris. Not sure about Faried. I don't think he even considered Valanciunas a lottery prospect.

So yeah, I think it's fair to say he wanted his team to draft other players. Like pretty much all of them.

[MikeM]

I feel like Jonas is just a basketball player. He's not an impressive run and jump athlete. But he has all those "little" things that make great players. Long arms. The ability to jump twice while you can only jump once. Keeps the ball high always (to go along with other great fundamentals). Free throw shooting. Non-stop motor. Hand eye co-ordination. Awareness from playing tough basketball as a youngster (all that Rubio BS about being a young pro that no one believed). He's got that passion/leadership combo.

Some more strength and a consistent jumper and it's over.

[raptor21_85]

Hi, just wondering if Dr Mufasa also hates Bargnani.. i respect your opinion but a lot of us the fanbase hope Val can take us to the next level along with Bargs and our 2012 draft pick.. and remember Gortat has improved a lot because of Nash, we dont have Nash so it doesnt make sense.. its like comparing Ryan Anderson to Bargs.. anyway, Val hasnt played yet a single nba game,so we'll see, the good thing is he's only 19.
Another question, is Val were for 2012 draft (imagine he hasnt presented for 2011 draft), would you pick him first?? would he be the number one pick??

[Clutch Carter]

Val is nothing like Kristic, wth are you talking about?

[sca]

Hi, just wondering if Dr Mufasa also hates Bargnani.. i respect your opinion but a lot of us the fanbase hope Val can take us to the next level along with Bargs and our 2012 draft pick.. and remember Gortat has improved a lot because of Nash, we dont have Nash so it doesnt make sense.. its like comparing Ryan Anderson to Bargs.. anyway, Val hasnt played yet a single nba game,so we'll see, the good thing is he's only 19.
Another question, is Val were for 2012 draft (imagine he hasnt presented for 2011 draft), would you pick him first?? would he be the number one pick??

It seems like this Is a much stronger draft than the last one, so no.

[Bertrob]

Are people complaining about a prospect being compared to Kristic stat-wise?
Pre-injury Kristic was a legit 18/7 dude
Thats pretty legit

[sca]

Are people complaining about a prospect being compared to Kristic stat-wise?
Pre-injury Kristic was a legit 18/7 dude
Thats pretty legit

Krstic had defensive shortcomings, he was athletically lacking for an NBA big, he also was a below average rebounder. Val is projected to have none of these problems as a pro.

[Bertrob]

Are people complaining about a prospect being compared to Kristic stat-wise?
Pre-injury Kristic was a legit 18/7 dude
Thats pretty legit

Krstic had defensive shortcomings, he was athletically lacking for an NBA big, he also was a below average rebounder. Val is projected to have none of these problems as a pro.

Well ignoring defense because that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, are raptors fans looking for at Val hopefully averaging like 11 and 11? Basically Biedrins stats when he was good?

[sikma42]

Like I said I think Valanciunas is a fine enough prospect. I'm not saying he's a bust. I think most likely scenario is something like 11/9/1.5 and his upside is 15/11/2. Which could make it the right pick over guys like Knight and Kemba and Jimmer because a B level C is >>>>> B level combo guard 7 days a week and twice on Sundays.

What I don't see is the star talent, he simply doesn't have dynamic athleticism, skill or bball IQ and without one of those things you're holding a business class ticket basically every time

I think this is the problem with a lot of people when they evaluate big man talent. They just don't know what to look for in a basketball athlete. How many legit 7 foot players can do the thing he can do at 19 or 20. The guy has great hands, is strong, has a motor, can finish through contact with dunks, runs the floor incredibly well and has shown touch when finishing on post moves. He has a very rare combination of talents that is going to make him very successful in the league. Depending on his post game he may turn into a 20/10/2 7 foot player who plays the C position. Not many of those in the league now, pretty valuable.

I don't see any reason why he is a B level C prospect when he is prob the best Center prospect to come out since Greg Oden. He is definately the best 7 footer to come out in some time.

[pass first]

Well ignoring defense because that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, are raptors fans looking for at Val hopefully averaging like 11 and 11? Basically Biedrins stats when he was good?

His rebounding rate does indicate 11/11 is more likely than 18/7, yes. Looks like Biedrins with excellent free throw shooting is his floor (imo).

[sca]

Are people complaining about a prospect being compared to Kristic stat-wise?
Pre-injury Kristic was a legit 18/7 dude
Thats pretty legit

Krstic had defensive shortcomings, he was athletically lacking for an NBA big, he also was a below average rebounder. Val is projected to have none of these problems as a pro.

Well ignoring defense because that doesn't show up on the stat sheet, are raptors fans looking for at Val hopefully averaging like 11 and 11? Basically Biedrins stats when he was good?

I for one can't predict his stats, as it heavily depends on the team's style of play and his frontcourt partner amongst other factors. But I expect him to impact the games much more than pre-injury Biedrins does.

[Yoga]

Jonas Valancinuas is playing for Lithuania in the olympics...another Ricky Rubio effect

[raptor21_85]

Jonas Valancinuas is playing for Lithuania in the olympics...another Ricky Rubio effect

we'll see then what he is able to do against the best teams in the world we'll see how much he has improved so far

[UcanUwill]

First. Lithuania is not even qualified yet. Course they are favorites to win qualification tournament, but hold your horses.
Second. Jonas is not on the team yet. Sure he is Lithuania's best big if you ask me, but LTU coach really dropped the ball taking M. Petravicius, who is absolutely atrocious. Jonas was not even playing until that stiff Petravicius injured himself... So, I just dont trust Lithuanian coach at all...