How far does OKC get with Melo?

[Nutty Nats Fan]

Are you being serious? The Thunder are stacked and would still be a top 3 team

There is absolutely no way Carmelo could get along with Westbrook or get the most out of Ibaka's limited offensive repertoire.

I stand by my original post.

No way he'd get along with Westbrook, yet he got along with Iverson. Wouldn't be able to get the most out of Ibaka's limited offensive repertoire, yet Tyson Chandler, who's offensive repertoire is more limited than Ibaka's, had the most efficient season of his career playing with Melo.

Logic and reality doesn't work on the Melo haters it would seem. They like standing on irrational thought.

Melo also played with Kmart (pretty limited) and Najera (really limited) at PF and they did well. Could throw that in there. He played with other players, who sucked, but wanted to shoot the ball too. Camby usually got the 1st shot because he'd pout and he'd try to play PG as a C. Dude was extremely selfish, he even knocked team mates down going for rebounds, grabbed rebounds out of Melo's hands, but Melo wouldn't get along with Westbrook. It's laughable.

[LBJ 1through5]

Melo has been in the league 9 years. He got knocked out of the first round in 8 out of 9 years. It didn't matter whether he was in Denver or on NYC. If he was in OKC, the results would be the same.

[tsherkin]

No way he'd get along with Westbrook, yet he got along with Iverson. Wouldn't be able to get the most out of Ibaka's limited offensive repertoire, yet Tyson Chandler, who's offensive repertoire is more limited than Ibaka's, had the most efficient season of his career playing with Melo.

You realize that Tyson Chandler took less than 6 shots per game and had basically the same season on offense this year as he did last year in Dallas, right?

2011: 5.5 FGA/g, 65.4% FG, 4.0 FTA/g, 73.2% FT, 69.7% TS, 131 ORTG
2012: 5.7 FGA/g, 67.9% FG, 5/1 FTA/g, 68.9% FT, 70.8% TS, 130 ORTG

Melo didn't have to DO anything for Chandler to have that season; he went out and did nothing but dunk, hit the offensive glass and shoot inside of 10 feet. He actually took 0.6 fewer shots per game away from the rim this season compared to last.

So that's an empty argument; Chandler's game was not impacted by Melo because he doesn't get ACTIVELY involved in the flow of the offense. He doesn't look for jumpers, he doesn't iso, he just positions himself around the rim and hits the boards or gets dump passes for the most part.

[NY_Kn1cks]

Every team was trying to put together packages to trade for Melo in 2011 and now that he is on the Knicks he sucks. Ok. I see your bitterness and raise you

[NY_Kn1cks]

No way he'd get along with Westbrook, yet he got along with Iverson. Wouldn't be able to get the most out of Ibaka's limited offensive repertoire, yet Tyson Chandler, who's offensive repertoire is more limited than Ibaka's, had the most efficient season of his career playing with Melo.

You realize that Tyson Chandler took less than 6 shots per game and had basically the same season on offense this year as he did last year in Dallas, right?

2011: 5.5 FGA/g, 65.4% FG, 4.0 FTA/g, 73.2% FT, 69.7% TS, 131 ORTG
2012: 5.7 FGA/g, 67.9% FG, 5/1 FTA/g, 68.9% FT, 70.8% TS, 130 ORTG

Melo didn't have to DO anything for Chandler to have that season; he went out and did nothing but dunk, hit the offensive glass and shoot inside of 10 feet. He actually took 0.6 fewer shots per game away from the rim this season compared to last.

So that's an empty argument; Chandler's game was not impacted by Melo because he doesn't get ACTIVELY involved in the flow of the offense. He doesn't look for jumpers, he doesn't iso, he just positions himself around the rim and hits the boards or gets dump passes for the most part.

So Melo didn't draw double teams that allowed Chandler to have easy dunks.... Ok man.

[tsherkin]

So Melo didn't draw double teams that allowed Chandler to have easy dunks.... Ok man.

Yay, missing the point for the sake of trying to win the argument!

Yeah, Melo got some double teams this year. Amare contributed there as well. Tyson plays off of every other offensive player on the floor because he's not an active scoring threat, he's a hustle scorer who knows his role and is really good at it.

Melo was pretty bad on offense this year by his standards, though only a little under league average. Still, bad. So arguing anything about his offense was really positive is kind of a poor move, especially since his presence tended to disrupt the team's offensive flow more often than not during the course of the season. It's not exactly the most representative season ever, but Chandler had a slightly BETTER season last year (though effectively identical), so arguing as if Melo had any major impact on him is incorrect.

[bronxknicksfan1]

No way he'd get along with Westbrook, yet he got along with Iverson. Wouldn't be able to get the most out of Ibaka's limited offensive repertoire, yet Tyson Chandler, who's offensive repertoire is more limited than Ibaka's, had the most efficient season of his career playing with Melo.

You realize that Tyson Chandler took less than 6 shots per game and had basically the same season on offense this year as he did last year in Dallas, right?

2011: 5.5 FGA/g, 65.4% FG, 4.0 FTA/g, 73.2% FT, 69.7% TS, 131 ORTG
2012: 5.7 FGA/g, 67.9% FG, 5/1 FTA/g, 68.9% FT, 70.8% TS, 130 ORTG

Melo didn't have to DO anything for Chandler to have that season; he went out and did nothing but dunk, hit the offensive glass and shoot inside of 10 feet. He actually took 0.6 fewer shots per game away from the rim this season compared to last.

So that's an empty argument; Chandler's game was not impacted by Melo because he doesn't get ACTIVELY involved in the flow of the offense. He doesn't look for jumpers, he doesn't iso, he just positions himself around the rim and hits the boards or gets dump passes for the most part.

So Melo didn't get the most out of Chandler's limited offensive repertoire, which was the point I was trying to make? You proved it for me.

[tsherkin]

So Melo didn't get the most out of Chandler's limited offensive repertoire, which was the point I was trying to make? You proved it for me.

I did nothing of the sort; Melo didn't do anything to help Chandler out more than anyone else does. He didn't do anything special. He put up and missed a bunch of shots, wasted a lot of time on slow post-ups and turning the ball over trying to be a ball handler (at MAD's directive, of course).

That's not him actively involving himself in dragging extra value out of Chandler, that's just Melo playing Melo's game and Chandler knowing when and where to be on the court to take advantage of the shots everyone is always taking when he's on the court because he's not an on-ball scorer.

[NY_Kn1cks]

So Melo didn't draw double teams that allowed Chandler to have easy dunks.... Ok man.

Yay, missing the point for the sake of trying to win the argument!

Yeah, Melo got some double teams this year. Amare contributed there as well. Tyson plays off of every other offensive player on the floor because he's not an active scoring threat, he's a hustle scorer who knows his role and is really good at it.

Melo was pretty bad on offense this year by his standards, though only a little under league average. Still, bad. So arguing anything about his offense was really positive is kind of a poor move, especially since his presence tended to disrupt the team's offensive flow more often than not during the course of the season. It's not exactly the most representative season ever, but Chandler had a slightly BETTER season last year (though effectively identical), so arguing as if Melo had any major impact on him is incorrect.

Your problem is looking at this season as a whole for Melo. There were two different Melo's this year. One that was in an offense with a coach who was unwilling to adjust his system. And one with a coach who built his system around Melo. Look at the stats if you disagree.

[crazybranman360]

switch Melo and Durant? Still in the finals easily

[Blame Rasho]

Melo has no real affect on Chandler offensive game, because all of his career he has been a garbage player who is the 5th option on offense. He rebounds,catches and finishes, that is it. If anything if you want make some tangible arugment, say that Melo's suckidue on the offensive end this year allowed more rebounds to be had and easier baskets for him, but then again it is stupid to credit anyone his offensive game. He is what he is, because of him. He is basically an early version of Dennis Rodman and nothing else, unless you want to give credit to Zeke for his lead leading FG% season.

[bigboi]

I have a question. If Melo was on the Celtics, would they be in the Finals right now? I'm just asking because Pierce was a no show, would he have had more impact against Lebron or be the same as Pierce?

[bronxknicksfan1]

Making it seem as though Tyson Chandler scored strictly off of offensive boards when he was assisted 81% of the time?

[tsherkin]

Your problem is looking at this season as a whole for Melo. There were two different Melo's this year. One that was in an offense with a coach who was unwilling to adjust his system. And one with a coach who built his system around Melo. Look at the stats if you disagree.

Yeah, he looked better in the month of April. For 12 games, when he was shooting an unsustainable 46% from downtown, and maintaining a 0.593 FTA/FGA that he's never going to keep up.

I don't see how that's relevant; that's a streak and some luck... a little bit of health, and Melo clicking for a bit. It's out of character with his entire career, a major outlier if you're trying to use it to project future success. Yeah, MAD was a pretty bad coach. Woodson has been better for the team's defense.

Melo had a down season; that his performance on the balance of the season was as out of character as his month of April is unquestionable: he's better than he was this year, and this season alone is not a good way to evaluate him in his entirety.

But nothing about his game did anything special to enable Chandler. His passing wasn't significant, except in as much as he was the primary offensive weapon and, by consequence, drew attention because plays were called for him and they almost never called Chandler's number to do anything but hit the boards or set screens. That's not something uniquely related to Melo; you could have tossed Mike James from back when he scored 20+ for the Craptors and the effect would have been the same. Perhaps better, since James actually had a very efficient scoring performance that season, if he were to replicate that now (though that was a HUGE outlier season for him, and this is obviously a suggestion made as hyperbole).

Melo wasn't responsible for what Chandler did; Chandler was. He's been doing what he does for years. Last year in particular, he did EXACTLY what he did this year, offensively speaking. It had nothing to do with Melo's play in particular.

[tsherkin]

I have a question. If Melo was on the Celtics, would they be in the Finals right now? I'm just asking because Pierce was a no show, would he have had more impact against Lebron or be the same as Pierce?

Depends. Would he still be broken like he was this year? He missed 11 RS games and was terrible in the playoffs. His elbow bugged him all year, too.

If THAT Melo showed up, the one that managed just under 49% TS in the playoffs this year, showed up, no... Boston would definitely not be in the Finals. He sucked against the same Heat that Boston faced in the ECFs.

[tsherkin]

Making it seem as though Tyson Chandler scored strictly off of offensive boards when he was assisted 81% of the time?

Reading is important. I also talked about he positioned himself effectively around the rim and that how he knows when and where to be on the court. His whole offensive MO is to be there for the release pass for the dunk... or the recipient of, say, a Jeremy Lin pass off of the pick-and-roll, or there for a hi-lo feed, or an oop. These passes came from the whole team. It's not like Melo had any special synergy with Chandler this year that was different than what he experienced with anyone else on the team or what he saw in Dallas last season.

You're reaching, man, reaching like Stretch Armstrong.

[Tave]

This year? Melo missed 10 games and played most of the season injured, so probably not this far. Even though he was healthy during the playoffs, I doubt the chemistry would be there. I see them beating LA but losing to San Antonio. But even that's not accurate, because who knows how the seeding would've landed.

Not a bad question though. The two are similar in a lot of ways. Durant is the better shooter, Melo's more comfortable in the post, and I think Melo is the better man-to-man defender and position rebounder when he puts his mind to it. Unfortunately, he's inconsistent on defense. But maybe that would change on a team like OKC. I'm not huge on Brooks, but he's done a fantastic job getting all those young'ins to buy into his system and give it everything they have. That kind of atmosphere can be contagious: not a knock on Karl at all, but there was some obvious friction between him and Melo.

[bluefear]

first round exit

[NY_Kn1cks]

I have a question. If Melo was on the Celtics, would they be in the Finals right now? I'm just asking because Pierce was a no show, would he have had more impact against Lebron or be the same as Pierce?

Depends. Would he still be broken like he was this year? He missed 11 RS games and was terrible in the playoffs. His elbow bugged him all year, too.

If THAT Melo showed up, the one that managed just under 49% TS in the playoffs this year, showed up, no... Boston would definitely not be in the Finals. He sucked against the same Heat that Boston faced in the ECFs.

That just proves to me you have no idea what you are talking about in terms of melo. 27.8/8.2/2.2 is terrible?

[tsherkin]

That just proves to me you have no idea what you are talking about in terms of melo. 27.8/8.2/2.2 is terrible?

Looking beyond just the raw averages is important.

He played 41 mpg and rocked a postseason-high 36.2% USG in order to do it. He rocked a 48.9% TS and a 103 ORTG.

He balled out like crazy in game 4, that much is true, but he was WRETCHED in games one and three and that hurt a lot, and of course his defense was entirely unimpressive (though that matchup was death for him).