Valanciunas can't get on the floor.

[Durant Durant]

but arent you the guy who said Lin is gonna average 18/6/12 or something ridiculous

ohkay. mightve gone overboard there (20ppg,8apg,4rpg IF they don't get an all-star ) but this is not a Lin thread.

[xprt]

He will be an okay bench player. Rap fans need to stop over hyping their players. I thought Derozen was going to be a superstar? and what happened to Ed Davis being like a prime Jermaine O'neal?

He put better numbers being 18 years old than Marc Gasol being 21 years old in Euroleague. He showed he can score on legit NBA starting bigs easily in Euro champs he even outplayed Horford on both ends. Even his floor is clearly higher than bench player.

[Spicy P]

Put the exhausted thing aside, since I didn't say it.

Just his performance, at 20 years old, what are you expecting? You said you had an eye for busts, what really about him speaks of a bust?

I said I had an 'eye for busts' since I on more than on one occassion predicted a player to be a bust. sorry if it hurt your feelings. but Jonas really is in MY bust-list this year.

He's got nothing because he's never seen him play. He's from Europe and a big man, so he must be a bust.

[Durant Durant]

Put the exhausted thing aside, since I didn't say it.

Just his performance, at 20 years old, what are you expecting? You said you had an eye for busts, what really about him speaks of a bust?

I said I had an 'eye for busts' since I on more than on one occassion predicted a player to be a bust. sorry if it hurt your feelings. but Jonas really is in MY bust-list this year.

i dunno. call it 6th sense or what have you. but on the way the player carries himself, or moves around the court. the gait if you may. but then again please ignore my opinion as they're hypothetical. though accurate so far.

[JWiLL02]

i dunno. call it 6th sense or what have you. but on the way the player carries himself, or moves around the court. the gait if you may. but then again please ignore my opinion as they're hypothetical. though accurate so far.

Man, are you ever full of it. The LAST thing you would take away from watching Jonas play is that he doesn't look engaged, doesn't carry himself well on the court or move around the court well. He's one of the most passionate players I've ever seen, particularly for a European player who tend to be more reserved on the court.

Just admit you've never seen the man play for more than a couple seconds. Better yet, watch some extended highlights from a game where he was actually involved by the guards vs. NBA competition (he had just turned 19).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DkzWofJkZk[/youtube]

If you can honestly watch that video and tell me the way he carries himself on the court says "bust" to you, I'd like to see what your idea of a quality C prospect looks like.

[Duffman100]

I said I had an 'eye for busts' since I on more than on one occassion predicted a player to be a bust. sorry if it hurt your feelings. but Jonas really is in MY bust-list this year.

i dunno. call it 6th sense or what have you. but on the way the player carries himself, or moves around the court. the gait if you may. but then again please ignore my opinion as they're hypothetical. though accurate so far.

For the record, my feelings weren't hurt. I try to remain as objective as possible as a Raptors fan. Not a huge fan of Demar or Ed Davis, think they're bench rotation players.

I just think it's amusing that you have zero analysis or anything of substance to claim he's a bust, just his gait. You should be a scout and present that report to your GM.

[Dr Positivity]

He hasn't been having a positive impact for them and stickler coaches at this level typically bench young players who make mistakes

[Blazing_royale]

thats what the haters said about Rubio when he was in Europe and look what he's done when he went to the NBA.

[aether1234]

OK BRO......

Bargnani = Next Nowitzki
Derozan = Next Kobe
Ed Davis = Next Jermaine O'neal
Valanciunas = Next Sabonis

RAPTORS NBA CHAMPIONS NEXT SEASON BRO... HAPPY BRO ?

[MikeM]

His numbers in 10 minutes a game are actually good if you look at it. His Per 36 would be like 17 and 10 on 64%FG.

I know you can't use per 36 for him because of fouls but it's not like he's out there going 0/10 and getting dunked on repeatedly.

If he gets the ball, he scores. If he's on the court, he rebounds. The coach doesn't put him on the court.

[Dr Positivity]

thats what the haters said about Rubio when he was in Europe and look what he's done when he went to the NBA.

Yes - European stats aren't going to show whether a player will succeed or not, whether they're good or bad. It's about how they do it, not what they do

I think Valanciunas will be a bust but this Olympic tournament hasn't played a part in that opinion. His problem is he does not have above average physical tools or skill talent vs NBA Cs. Talent is "What do you have that other players at the position don't". In physical tools/skill Val has very little to separate himself. His length gets the most hype, but being long has never guaranteed centers anything in terms of physical impact, the fact that he has no lift really takes off much of the bite of his wingspan - let's put it this way, his length has virtually never had a noticeable impact on the game defensively, not even against Lithuanian league competition does it look like playing against a long 7 footer around the rim is bothering the opponent. He is a mediocre athlete with mediocre strength against the high bar that NBA Cs set. He basically has Stiemsma's body. As a whole I wouldn't say his physical talent is standout vs NBA starting Cs. As for skill, he's clearly a raw clean up basket guy, with no go to moves.

From the perspective of talent if a player isn't unique from his peers in terms of physical tools or skill, the only way he can stand out is if he's a total stud in basketball IQ/instincts/positional awareness/etc. This is what Rubio has to make up for not being a world beater physically or in skill, he simply has an incredible mind for the game. The problem for Valanciunas is that this is his weakness. The biggest reason he isn't getting minutes right now is that mentally he's been horribly slow on defensive reactions and Argentina in the 1st game walked all over Lithuania's help defense, in part due to how inexperienced their anchor was mentally. He is a fidgety player on both ends and always plays like he's in a rush, while players with a great instinctual feel play like they have all the time in the world. His style of play and basketball IQ reminds me a ton of Javale McGee in that he flies around the court looking a bit lost but manages to produce on his physical tools/length/energy, except it's going to be much harder for him to play McGee ball in the NBA with the downgrade in physical tools he has

So what you have to me is a player with average to subaverage physical/skill talent even before considering that he appears to have a very weak feel for the court and basketball instict base. I think the guy is simply not very talented. I think his production in Europe carried him most of the way to his lofty draft rankings and something like the U19 performance last year pushed it to another level - But again, it's not what you do, it's how you do it

[JWiLL02]

For the love of god Dr. Mufasa, you don't have to show up in every single Valanciunas thread to spew your opinions. The fact that you don't think Valanciunas has an above average skill level is absurd, he has an elite touch around the basket and phenomenal hands. These qualities alone will make him a solid NBA 5.

I don't think instincts are an issue with him either, you can see it with his play on the boards and how he operates during pick and roll situations. His defensive rotations haven't been great with the Lithuanian team, but they're a mess overall defensively. Casey will be all the difference here.

[Duffman100]

Somebody with a great rebounding rate, a great finishing rate and he doesn't have basketball instincts? That's a new one.


I think one MAJOR thing that seperates him is his offensive rebounding rate combined with an 80% free throw clip. That's 6-8 points a game on hustle alone.

But you're right, we should have drafted Tristan Thompson with that pick. Or do you actually have a recommendation on who we should have drafted? Usually you just say we made the wrong pick with absolutely no insight into what the RIGHT move was.

[Relentless88]

But you're right, we should have drafted Tristan Thompson with that pick. Or do you actually have a recommendation on who we should have drafted? Usually you just say we made the wrong pick with absolutely no insight into what the RIGHT move was.

Agree with this. This is all of Mufasa's posts.

But I think his pick would have been James Michael McAdoo, had he declared. Mufasa had him ranked ahead of Anthony Davis, who will supposedly have a David West type career.

[Chalk1]

He did just fine if not maybe very good at Eurobasket last summer, so I wouldn't make much of it. The loss of Javtokas who is the mainstay at the center spot for Lithuania has probably, and suddenly, thrown the coaching staff and Val into a tough spot. The other center on the team, who replaced Javtokas, is even younger than Valanciunas.

But why Kemzura wouldn't want Motiejunas is a mystery to me, he's a stud. Get him into the program ASAP, alongside Valancunas, and get that frontcourt rolling for years to come.

[Nuntius]

Valanciunas is actually the first Center at their depth chart. They just opt a lot of times to play with Forwards at the Center spot. Lithuania is a team that likes to push the tempo. Their forwards (Songaila, Jankunas, Kleiza) can stretch the defense and allow the team to shoot. And Lithuanians love to shoot as they are excellent shooters. So, it makes a lot of sense for them to run with Songaila + Kleiza or Jankunas + Maciulis instead of Valanciunas / Kavaliauskas + Kleiza / Songaila.

Also, Valanciunas suffers from foul trouble as other people pointed out.

vs. Argentina he had 3 fouls in 14 minutes.

vs. Nigeria he had 3 fouls in 12 minutes.

vs. France he had 2 fouls in 7 minutes.

And with FIBA rules you foul out at 5.

[Nuntius]

there's probably a reason why the coach hates the kid if that is the case. Don't blame the coach, blame the player.

There might be a reason but is the reason fair or justified? If it is a bad reason, then it is fair to blame the coach.

it's probably due to laziness, poor practice performance or attitude. To think a coach would not utilize a player that is highly talented and giving it his all is ludicrous.

Or it would be because the player does not fit the his system.

Jim O' Brien frequently benched Roy Hibbert because he couldn't play in the up-tempo, 3-point shooting system that he used. Frank Vogel used Roy and now he is an All-Star. In that case, the coach was to blame.

[Nuntius]

Not really sure why the Lithuanian coach has such a tight leash on all his players.

Kęstutis Kemzūra is a bad coach. He proved it in the last Eurobasket.

[COY0607]

how many 20 year old center's have actually been factors in an nba season, let alone international competitions.....

people are needlessly hating on valanciunas, of course he'll go through phases where he will struggle and not get playing time, he'll go through this again at some point next season too, and maybe even in his second season.... that doesn't change the fact that he is a top prospect, literally every credible nba scout has said so, and most have said that he would have been the 2nd best prospect coming into the 2012-2013 season

[JWiLL02]

how many 20 year old center's have actually been factors in an nba season, let alone international competitions.....

people are needlessly hating on valanciunas, of course he'll go through phases where he will struggle and not get playing time, he'll go through this again at some point next season too, and maybe even in his second season.... that doesn't change the fact that he is a top prospect, literally every credible nba scout has said so, and most have said that he would have been the 2nd best prospect coming into the 2012-2013 season

Exactly, you can't teach motor, great hands and touch around the basket. He has some extremely promising traits that you want in a young C.