Can anybody catch the Knicks in the Atlantic?

[aggo]

melo's teams neither overachieved nor underachieved in the west


karl is a horrible coach, and that was what was holding those teams back.

[NYK_89]

melo's teams neither overachieved nor underachieved in the west


karl is a horrible coach, and that was what was holding those teams back.

Yeah not that Karl is a bad coach but a horrible fit with Melo and he never adjusted to his game rather just tried to make him fit within his system.

Look its not like people are saying he is some great playoff performer, but the loss to the clippers and to a far lesser extent the loss to Utah (WHERE HE PLAYED INCREDIBLE AND RAN INTO DERON IN BEAST MODE) he has lost to just flat out superior teams. Its like bashing him for last years first round loss as well, first round loss but it was to the **** heat.

[King_John]

How am I discrediting a player when I say Melo did get out of the first round once in 9 years...I repeat ONCE in 9 years...that is a fact and this in my opinion makes him comparable to T-mac...a very giftet player with no postseason success...only difference he can still prove otherwise

[Trader_Joe]

How am I discrediting a player when I say Melo did get out of the first round once in 9 years...I repeat ONCE in 9 years...that is a fact and this in my opinion makes him comparable to T-mac...a very giftet player with no postseason success...only difference he can still prove otherwise

I agree.

It's 9 teams.
All slightly to very different from each other and he's been the best player on each one.

He is 1-8 in his first round series.. he has the worst winning percentage in the playoffs.
Not only is he losing the series, they are not competitive series. That is the disturbing part.

1. Carmelo Anthony, 16-36, .308
2. Mookie Blaylock, 18-36, .333
3. Eduardo Najera, 20-39, .339
4. Chris Dudley, 20-34, .370
5. Brad Miller, 19-31, .380
6. Anthony Peeler, 22-35, .386
7. Marcus Camby, 30-46, .395
8. Stacey Augmon, 31-46, .403
9. Shane Battier, 22-32, .407
10. Tyron Corbin, 28-40, .412

(prior to their win vs. Miami when down 3-0)

According to ESPN Stats and Info., Anthony (16-36, .308) has the worst winning percentage of any player ever to compete in at least 50 NBA playoff games.
What makes that stat even more incredible is that 10 of his wins came during the Denver Nuggets' 2009 run to the Western Conference Finals.

http://newyork.sbnation.com/new-york-kn ... percentage


Add to his futility, the Knicks futility (1 playoff win in 10 years) and you understand people's skepticism.

[624]

I didn't mean the Nets are a circus in the media as much as they are a circus on the basketball floor.

Can you elaborate?

I did already. The parts don't fit. Joe Johnson is useless without the ball in his hands. He doesn't do very much cutting off the ball and will just stand around waiting for something to happen. Your best scorer is probably Brook Lopez, but he isn't dominant enough to demand a double team, so teams just take their chances and single up on him. Then you have Deron who is half of what he was AND in a bad system for his particular skill set.

That's why I said circus. It was probably poor word choice on my part. Disjointed is a much more apt term.

lol you've never watched a Nets game

[Deathclutch23]

Raptors are gonna go undefeated rest of the way, including playoffs en route to NBA championship.

[NjNeTs1029]

I think the Knicks are going to win the division by a few games. As a Nets fan i obviously hate the Knicks, but honestly they've built a really nice team and Melo's been a top 5 player this season. Putting up almost 30 a game and shooting well from 3. Tyson Chandler is a beast and JR has been great for them this year. They also still have Shump coming back who was solid last year. It's going to be interesting to see how they play with Amare in the second half of the season.

Nets should end up in the top 5 in the East though.. I think people who didn't really watch the Nets this season are underestimating how terrible Avery really was. His rotations and "offense" were horrible. Deron was playing off the ball way too much.. They're 4-1 since he's been fired with a win over OKC for a reason. And people still saying Brook Lopez isnt dominant enough to demand a double team and can't lead the the team in scoring clearly haven't watched many games this year. He's been our best player minus a small stretch when he came back from his foot injury. He's even improved his rebounding and defense. If Deron and JJ continue to play how they've been playing since PJ took over they can definitely make a nice run in the 2nd half of the season and win a playoff series depending on who they get matched up with. I'm hoping a move is made for a starting 4 around the trade deadline as thats Brooklyn's only real weak spot in the starting lineup.

[JoseRizal]

I didn't mean the Nets are a circus in the media as much as they are a circus on the basketball floor.

Can you elaborate?

I did already. The parts don't fit. Joe Johnson is useless without the ball in his hands. He doesn't do very much cutting off the ball and will just stand around waiting for something to happen. Your best scorer is probably Brook Lopez, but he isn't dominant enough to demand a double team, so teams just take their chances and single up on him. Then you have Deron who is half of what he was AND in a bad system for his particular skill set.

That's why I said circus. It was probably poor word choice on my part. Disjointed is a much more apt term.

Please watch some Nets games before posting...

[TwentyOne920]

Why is Melo s playoff record a meaningless stat? I don t damn him for being unsuccesful in the post season...but he had good teammates back in Denver...he has good teammates right now...so this playoffs he has to prove he is a real superstar and not t-mac 2.0...all i m saying

I guess you expected his good teammates to beat proven perennial NBA championship teams like the Spurs and Lakers, right?

2006-2007 roster teammates: Allen Iverson, Marcus Camby, Nene, J.R. Smith, Kenyon Martin
--> first round exit with that team!!! ...I mean where are not talking Lakers or Spurs here but first round
2007-2008 same teammates
--> first round exit...
2008-2009 roster teammates: - minus Iverson + chauncey billups
--> conference finals...only playoff success for melo
2009-2010 roster teammates: same team
--> first round exit

you tell that was not being unsuccesful despite having a good team...and they just got to the Conference Finals once in 7 years

Three years in a row they lost to the eventual conference champions, fwiw.

[YouthMovement]

lol at people acting like these stats mean everything. these records don't take into account who you play. guarantee that if melo can get homecourt advantage in NEW YORK he'll win a couple series

[Synciere]

Trader Joe:

The question posed had nothing to do with the ECF, but whether they could be caught in the standings this year. If there is a sig bet to make based on the conversation before you asked, it should be, 'If the Knicks and Nets meet in the playoffs, would you pick the Nets to win outright? They seem to be the next viable threat and I assume that is why they came out in this thread? You're jacking up expectations by making the bet about the ECFs.

Straight up, Knicks and Nets in the playoffs, do you take the Nets? I'll make that bet with you.

[Synciere]

07- lost to champion spurs in that first round exit( Its **** hilarious because you say " we are not talking about the lakers or spurs here" AND THEY LOST TO THE **** SPURS and with the same team the next year lost to the lakers
08- lost to NBA finalist lakers again
09- went to WCF got beaten by future champion lakers
10- lost a 4-5 seed matchup... Not a great moment but 30.7/8.5/3.3 on .465 shooting, acting like he had signifigant help that season and lost it despite it when he put up those numbers is pretty comical.

So in short basically nothing you said even began to disprove the statement. He was in the west and despite having decent teammates it still was not enough to compete with what he was facing year in year out.. All of you want to discredit him but the reality is in every year but i believe 2 he lost to a team that at least reached the WCF and mostly the finals, how you attempt to discredit a player that usually faced a team with a better star like kobe, Duncan or KG along with a better supporting cast.

+1

This is why I don't believe in the team success rationale so many put in their arguments. KG didn't win SQUAT until he got the help that could compete in his conference. Duncan and Kobe always had deeper teams in the West. The fact that the Nuggets didn't experience more success was certainly not Melo's fault, no more than the fact the Cavaliers didn't win a championship was Lebron's fault.

[therealbig3]

It's only a 4.5 game lead with almost 50 games to go. A bit premature if you ask me.

[gelek]

Core?

What? There are NINE new players.
Kidd
brewer
Camby
Felton
Prigioni
Copeland
White
Thomas
Sheed

The rest of the team has played 2 yrs or less

Shumpert hasn't even played this season

Amare 2 games

Smith less than a season

Core = 2 best players (Melo + Chandler) + Amare + Shumpert + JR + Novak which was 4/5 of your starting line-up last season and your 6th + 7th men.

Many of those 9 player won't see minutes in the playoffs when healthy.

Kidd will determine who far these team goes as the main addition to the core.

ok whatever, you pick the 6 players that we kept from last year 2 of which have played a grand total of three games and claim that we're the same team as last year? Let's see that looks like fun:

nyet = deron&Lopez + crash + humphries + brooks => 4/5 of your s5 and your "kobe"? does that ean you'll miss the playoffs?

[GrandTheftRondo]

Well the Celtics have lots of favorable match ups in the next three weeks. If they can win the majority of them, the team is right back on track. I still like NY though, they'll more than likely hold this lead. Although Philly plummeted last season after a fast start so who knows.

As for the Nets fans getting excited because your new coach has apparently changed everything for the better, just stop and look at who you've played. You were always going to beat the Wizards, Cavs, Bobcats and Kings even with Avery. The media predicted Nets fans would act like this as soon as Avery was fired and what do you know? Nets fans are acting like PJ is the savior.

At the end of the day, Joe Johnson is still Joe Johnson an inefficient chucker, who is useless without the ball, Brook Lopez is still soft and Deron Williams isn't the player he was in Utah.

[Ray Den]

Proof of that is a 2-1 deficit, a loss at Barclays, a close win in overtime and a blow out in MSG. Nets get demolished in a 7 game series with the Knicks.

You do realize that one loss at Barclays was due to an illegal Kidd gamewinner (in addition to more bad calls down the stretch in favor of the Knicks), right?

We also led the 1st 2 games about 75% of the time. The third game the Nets were outplayed and out coached as the players were tuning out Avery and were also playing a back to back as they have the most in the NBA. If Knick fans don't realize we match up very well with them, I don't know what to say. From past game threads I heard plenty of praise from Knick fans saying we were better than they thought and match up well.

How do you match up well? The only thing pro Nets is the rebounding. Nets don't have a superstar, no one who can guard Melo, no knock down 3 point shooters except for stackhouse, no big sixth man.

I just don't see it but we ll see later this month when both teams are healthy, I guess.

Knicks have a lot of problems with young teams who run in open field, play fast combined with knock down shooters on the perimeter. None of the quality's of the nets.

[therealbig3]

Well the Celtics have lots of favorable match ups in the next three weeks. If they can win the majority of them, the team is right back on track. I still like NY though, they'll more than likely hold this lead. Although Philly plummeted last season after a fast start so who knows.

As for the Nets fans getting excited because your new coach has apparently changed everything for the better, just stop and look at who you've played. You were always going to beat the Wizards, Cavs, Bobcats and Kings even with Avery. The media predicted Nets fans would act like this as soon as Avery was fired and what do you know? Nets fans are acting like PJ is the savior.

At the end of the day, Joe Johnson is still Joe Johnson an inefficient chucker, who is useless without the ball, Brook Lopez is still soft and Deron Williams isn't the player he was in Utah.

As a general rule, you should just limit your comments to teams and players that you actually have a clue about.

JJ isn't that inefficient, he's certainly not a chucker, and he's been used off-ball a lot this year. Lopez is averaging 23/9 per 36 and has been an above average defender this year, and D-Will over the last few games has certainly looked like the D-Will of old, now that his jumper seems to be back.

Of course, you'd know all that if you actually watched the games.

[Tron Carter]

Trader Joe:

The question posed had nothing to do with the ECF, but whether they could be caught in the standings this year. If there is a sig bet to make based on the conversation before you asked, it should be, 'If the Knicks and Nets meet in the playoffs, would you pick the Nets to win outright? They seem to be the next viable threat and I assume that is why they came out in this thread? You're jacking up expectations by making the bet about the ECFs.

Straight up, Knicks and Nets in the playoffs, do you take the Nets? I'll make that bet with you.

+1

I'd much rather bet on a wager involving both teams. My bet for which team will make it out the 1st round is still on the table if online forum avatars and sigs really mean that much to you, Joe.

[BasketCase1]

Well the Celtics have lots of favorable match ups in the next three weeks. If they can win the majority of them, the team is right back on track. I still like NY though, they'll more than likely hold this lead. Although Philly plummeted last season after a fast start so who knows.

As for the Nets fans getting excited because your new coach has apparently changed everything for the better, just stop and look at who you've played. You were always going to beat the Wizards, Cavs, Bobcats and Kings even with Avery. The media predicted Nets fans would act like this as soon as Avery was fired and what do you know? Nets fans are acting like PJ is the savior.

At the end of the day, Joe Johnson is still Joe Johnson an inefficient chucker, who is useless without the ball, Brook Lopez is still soft and Deron Williams isn't the player he was in Utah.

You're funny. So according to your observation, The Nets top three players are a bunch of soft scrubs. Yet they are 4 games above .500 and the Celtics are a game under .500. Come on dude, you're sounding like a bitter troll. Atleast wait until your team has more wins then losses before you start talking nonsense smack.

[N Ireland Nets]

As for the Nets fans getting excited because your new coach has apparently changed everything for the better, just stop and look at who you've played. You were always going to beat the Wizards, Cavs, Bobcats and Kings even with Avery. The media predicted Nets fans would act like this as soon as Avery was fired and what do you know? Nets fans are acting like PJ is the savior.

No Nets fan is treating PJ as the saviour . We're just happy that he looks like he will be a fine stop gap until we can get a top level coach in the summer.

I love the fact you completely dismissed the win in OKC in your post as if we didnt win away versus them.