Sam Cassell Retrospect: Hall of Famer?

[toast]

If you expand the search a little to 15ppg, 5 ass, 2.5 rbs and 350 games he comes in 20th in win share.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... rder_by=ws

The best comparision when you do the comparison is a poor mans Chauncey Billups. I don't think that Billups makes it, because he was also very good but not great. But he has better numbers across the board was a better defender and won a championship MVP. If you have to seriously debate Billups, you can't really consider Cassell. I think that the point of the OP was that he was under-rated in which I agree. But not hall of fame under-rated.

[WhatRickyThinks]

The only Hall of Fame he will be inducted in features Tyrone Hill, Popeye Jones, and Quasimodo.

[ejftw]

No, he isn't a hall of famer, but wouldn't; doubt it if he got some consideration and do think he deserves it. He is the kind of guy you love when he's on your team, hate to play against but in five years, everyone will forget.

I'm not trying to convince anyone. If people think Cassell was better than Brand, or that Horry should be considered for the HOF, there is no point talking. Logic clearly has no place here

He wasn't better than Brand, but that WAS Cassell's team. Without Cassell, Clippers miss the playoffs like every other year with Brand being the "leader".

A role player doesn't get labelled as part of a big 3 (Bucks, Twolves), and become a team's best player at the age of 36. Honestly I would've expected more coming from a mod.

You had me sympathetic until you mentioned the age 36 stuff. That's just weird man. That was Elton Brand's team, and they had an incredible matchup advantage in the 2nd round of the playoffs that let Brand score at will. Had Cassell actually been a strong distributor they might have won. Instead I can't tell you how often he rushed a 3 in transition "because he was open" instead of waiting for the nearly guaranteed bucket from Brand.

It's unfair to call Cassell just a role player. He was good, and honestly were it up to me he's have been an all-star more than once. We should not mythologize him though. He was neither someone who could be a dominant scorer nor a world class playmaker...and those were really his two main skills. That's why he was a lower tier all-star, and why he's really not someone who should get a push for the Hall.

No, Clippers lost that series due to bad coaching and a missed assignment. How no one on the coaching staff told anyone about the 8-second violation out of a time-out, I will never understand. Why Dunleavy put an ice cold Ewing in the game is questionable and why Ewing let Bell get away so easily is just as pathetic.

[Bernman]

It's not a farfetched suggestion.

The guy did average 19/7, 20/8, 18/8, 20/7, 20/6, 20/7, and 17/6 in different seasons. A good majority of those were winning seasons. He won 3 championships. His efficiency #'s were solid, especially for a pg. He has more total points than many hall of famers, more assists than some points who made it.

The only things holding him back really were that his defense was mediocre and he never won a championship as a front and center player. David Stern kind of screwed him on that though when he was with the 00-01 Bucks.

He's a fringe hall of famer.

It's more reasonable to call him a hall of famer than a role player, surely.

[Winsome Gerbil]

The HoF is becoming a joke. Cassell was a very solid player but the fact that somebody can pose this question and not get absolutely flamed for it says a lot about the current state of the HoF. This is not a dig at the OP at all, just at the HoF and the lax criteria they have now.

That he can post it without being flamed says more about the early posters.

Sam Cassel = HOF = HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

And I'm getting tired of all the whining about the HOF standards justifying everybody's stupid HOF thread too. The standards have never even remotely gotten low enough for Sam Cassel, Derek Fisher, Raef LaFrentz, Brian Scalabrine or whoever else somebody wants to make a dumb thread about. This comes purely and 100% from this board's amusing overrating of titles as some sort of measuring stick. You'll find very few HOFs who bounced around and played for 8 teams in their NBA careers and make 1 All Star Game in 14 years in the league.Here are names on the bubble of interesting for HOF consideration:

Kevin Johnson
Tim Hardaway
Chris Webber
Alonzo Mourning
Ditkembe Mutumbo
Ben Wallace
Mitch Richmond
Grant Hill
etc.

Guys who were franchise players/perennial All Star players. I liked Sam Cassel as a clutch player, but he was never any of that.

[DByrne86]

Go ahead. Put Sam Cassell in the hall of fame.

The only thing you will accomplish is to make the HOF absolutely meaningless.

Even talking about it cheapens the importance of the HOF. What is wrong with you people?

If Cassell makes it to the Hall, you're going to have to put every solid role player in it.

People saying he wasn't a role player, but was a "star", were likely born in the 90's or are massive Houston Rocket fans from back in the day.

[orange_juice32]

It's not a farfetched suggestion.

The guy did average 19/7, 20/8, 18/8, 20/7, 20/6, 20/7, and 17/6 in different seasons. A good majority of those were winning seasons. He won 3 championships. His efficiency #'s were solid, especially for a pg. He has more total points than many hall of famers, more assists than some points who made it.

The only things holding him back really were that his defense was mediocre and he never won a championship as a front and center player. David Stern kind of screwed him on that though when he was with the 00-01 Bucks.

He's a fringe hall of famer.

It's more reasonable to call him a hall of famer than a role player, surely.

Stern screwed him in 00-01? You mean at the start of the Lakers 3peat, you think the Bucks had a chance of beating them that season?

No, it's not more reasonable to call him a hall of famer than role player, because you're skipping several levels in between. Cassell was a fringe all star in his prime, with little to no individual accolades or international achievement. Hall of fame? not gonna happen.

PG's inducted since 2000:

Dennis Johnson
John Stockton
Magic Johnson
Isiah Thomas

Hardaway, Payton, and Kevin Johnson are still waiting to get in. Nash and Kidd are first ballot after they retire.

Cassell's body of work doesn't touch any of those PG's currently in nor the PG's who are currently waiting to get in.

[Doctor MJ]

No, Clippers lost that series due to bad coaching and a missed assignment. How no one on the coaching staff told anyone about the 8-second violation out of a time-out, I will never understand. Why Dunleavy put an ice cold Ewing in the game is questionable and why Ewing let Bell get away so easily is just as pathetic.

So to paraphrase:

Cassell's boneheaded decisions which cost the team numerous points had nothing to do with the Clippers losing, the issue was a single possession which would have found a way to miraculously decide the series even if Clippers had scored more successfully the rest of the time.

Lil' bit myopic there dude.

[ejftw]

No, Clippers lost that series due to bad coaching and a missed assignment. How no one on the coaching staff told anyone about the 8-second violation out of a time-out, I will never understand. Why Dunleavy put an ice cold Ewing in the game is questionable and why Ewing let Bell get away so easily is just as pathetic.

So to paraphrase:

Cassell's boneheaded decisions which cost the team numerous points had nothing to do with the Clippers losing, the issue was a single possession which would have found a way to miraculously decide the series even if Clippers had scored more successfully the rest of the time.

Lil' bit myopic there dude.

How about the boneheaded decisions made by Brand? Or Maggette? Or Mobley? Or the lack of offense by Quinton Ross? Or Kaman not taking care of things in the post against Diaw? Or Livingston?

Everyone makes bad decisions, if the team never made bad decisions, they would have swept the Suns. If no team ever made bad decisions, every team would finish within 5 games of each other.

And yes, those possessions were that huge. Had Ewing not let Bell get away so easily, the Clippers would have went up 3-2 with Game 6 in Staples. Same with the 8-second violation in the same game that the coaching staff did not see, not a single person on the staff.

[Tumakapac713]

Mullin had a TON of college accolades, and was a dream teamer. Plus he was a 5x All Star. Mullin deserved to get in easily.

I can't speak for the others, because I never saw them play.

I get that but I still wouldn't put him in, and I definitely wouldn't put him in "easily". He wasn't an utterly dominant college player. Being a 5x all star is nice but so were players like Billups, Daugherty and Tim Hardaway. If Mullin was on a team that made a finals appearance (or even came close to one) I'd consider him more. As for making the Dream Team, it's impressive, but a lot of people have made the olympic teams that won't be HoFers. I just feel like as long as you have any decent accolades, people think you're HoF worthy. Mullin was a very good player. HoF worthy? I don't think so. In his defense, I will say that there have been worse decisions but I still wouldn't induct Mullin.

[N8N]

I think blackstar just trolled us hard.

Moving on.