Marc Gasol Wins Defensive Player of the Year

[chefy]

Smh, Kobe got snubbed again.

[Doctor MJ]

Eh don't like it. Gasol has Tony Allen, Conley and Prince on his team. Tony Allen was a legit DPOY candidate this season.

Key things:

1) Minutes - Allen doesn't play enough

2) Modern basketball defense is completely dependent on the defense responding to the offense in a coordinated manner. On Memphis, Gasol is the one coordinating that (coach on the floor shouting out directions to his teammates), and he does it phenomenally well. This doesn't prove beyond a doubt he'd the most worthy of the award, but it's hard for me to imagine you're really valuing this properly if you can dismiss it so easily.

[Doormatt]

Duncan loses again. I feel bad for him.

well its not like he got robbed this year or anything. its not like 07 where camby won over him. duncan deserves the consideration and all time deserves a DPOY, but its not like giving it to him this year would make it right when there are clearly better candidates.

[Doctor MJ]

Well, the Grizzlies have the best defense in the league.

The Grizzlies do NOT have the best defense in the league. They have the #2 defense in the league. They are, of course, a great defensive team.

Not that it particularly matters, but once you factor in SOS, good chance Grizzlies come out ahead.

[Dupp]

Just looked at the minutes and Gasol plays a good 5 minutes per game (35mpg) more than the other top candidates. Gotta add a lot of value despite maybe not matching kg and duncan at production per minute.

edit - gasol also played 80 games. For comparison duncan played 69. Probably a fairer result then i initially thought.


Also - Are the total votes out? Who was close etc?

[theokie]

But Ibaka led the leagues in blocks?

[Dupp]

Still think this is a odd choice. Not because its undeserving but just because its seemingly a well thought out result. Not as a result of hype or a high athletic player that gets blocks etc . Theyve done well in the choice of this award which often hasnt been the case.

[SideshowBob]

Just looked at the minutes and Gasol plays a good 5 minutes per game (35mpg) more than the other top candidates. Gotta add a lot of value despite maybe not matching kg and duncan at production per minute.

edit - gasol also played 80 games. For comparison duncan played 69. Probably a fairer result then i initially thought

Yeah minutes definitely help his case.

Top 10 defensive players by defensive contribution (Defensive RAPM weighted by minutes).

Code: Select all

Rk  Player             Team    MP       D-RAPM     MP x D-RAPM

1   Paul George        IND     2972     3.8        11421
2   Marc Gasol         MEM     2896     3.9        11000
3   Andre Iguodala     DEN     2799     3.5        9918
4   Tony Allen         MEM     2109     4.7        9875
5   Thabo Sefolosha    OKC     2229     4.4        9744     
6   Kevin Garnett      BOS     2022     4.7        9458
7   Dwight Howard      LAL     2722     3.3        9086
8   Luol Deng          CHI     2903     2.7        7883
9   Tim Duncan         SAS     2078     3.6        7470
10  Taj Gibson         CHI     1459     5.0        7301

Top 10 defensive players by defensive contribution (Defensive IPV weighted by minutes).

Code: Select all

Rk  Player             Team    MP       D-IPV      MP x D-IPV

1   Paul George        IND     2972     4.1        10402
2   Dwight Howard      LAL     2722     3.7        8983
3   Omer Asik          HOU     2799     2.2        8624
4   Marc Gasol         MEM     2896     3.6        8108
5   Kevin Garnett      BOS     2022     4.8        8088
6   Tony Allen         MEM     2109     2.8        8014
7   Tim Duncan         SAS     2078     4.8        7481
8   Andre Iguodala     DEN     2799     2.9        7223
9   Josh Smith         ATL     2683     2.7        6976
10  Luol Deng          CHI     2903     2.5        6967

[Dupp]

Just looked at the minutes and Gasol plays a good 5 minutes per game (35mpg) more than the other top candidates. Gotta add a lot of value despite maybe not matching kg and duncan at production per minute.

edit - gasol also played 80 games. For comparison duncan played 69. Probably a fairer result then i initially thought

Yeah minutes definitely help his case.

Top 10 defensive players by defensive contribution (Defensive RAPM weighted by minutes).

Code: Select all

Rk  Player             Team    MP       D-RAPM     MP x D-RAPM

1   Paul George        IND     2972     3.8        11421
2   Marc Gasol         MEM     2896     3.9        11000
3   Andre Iguodala     DEN     2799     3.5        9918
4   Tony Allen         MEM     2109     4.7        9875
5   Thabo Sefolosha    OKC     2229     4.4        9744     
6   Kevin Garnett      BOS     2022     4.7        9458
7   Dwight Howard      LAL     2722     3.3        9086
8   Luol Deng          CHI     2903     2.7        7883
9   Tim Duncan         SAS     2078     3.6        7470
10  Taj Gibson         CHI     1459     5.0        7301

Top 10 defensive players by defensive contribution (Defensive IPV weighted by minutes).

Code: Select all

Rk  Player             Team    MP       D-IPV      MP x D-IPV

1   Paul George        IND     2972     4.1        10402
2   Dwight Howard      LAL     2722     3.7        8983
3   Omer Asik          HOU     2799     2.2        8624
4   Marc Gasol         MEM     2896     3.6        8108
5   Kevin Garnett      BOS     2022     4.8        8088
6   Tony Allen         MEM     2109     2.8        8014
7   Tim Duncan         SAS     2078     4.8        7481
8   Andre Iguodala     DEN     2799     2.9        7223
9   Josh Smith         ATL     2683     2.7        6976
10  Luol Deng          CHI     2903     2.5        6967

To be honest i don't know too much about these stats you've posted (how they com up with them etc). But unlike a lot of defensive stats they look to have no inconsistency's, as all the players on the list are the guys on the list are regarded as the top defenders in the league.

[Dr Pepper]

Duncan should have won imo. Gasol only wins because of minutes (and because the media voters have always skimped out on Duncan's DPOY), but Duncan's the better defensive player especially when it comes to defending the interior. Last night showed a glimpse of that too, taken from Spurstalk:

DPOY Gasol: 2rebs/0stls/0blks in 41 minutes. His team allowed 112 points(55% FG).
Lost the rebounding battle: 23-47

37 yr old Duncan: 10 rebs/3stls/0blks in 36 minutes. His team allowed 79 points(41% FG)
Lost the rebounding battle: 43-44

Honestly, your stat on Duncan isn't exactly impressive. The Lakers scoring so few points can be attributed to not having Kobe and the resulting lack of perimeter scoring. Dwight and Pau both had good games last night as well and dominated the boards.

Not only that, but Memphis was on the road against a very potent Clipper team , where as the Spurs were at home.

Not only that, but a large majority of the Clippers points came from the perimeter.

Fair enough but doesn't really excuse Gasol's performance or stats either, imo. He should have had more of an impact

[SideshowBob]

Yeah minutes definitely help his case.

Top 10 defensive players by defensive contribution (Defensive RAPM weighted by minutes).

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Rk  Player             Team    MP       D-RAPM     MP x D-RAPM

1   Paul George        IND     2972     3.8        11421
2   Marc Gasol         MEM     2896     3.9        11000
3   Andre Iguodala     DEN     2799     3.5        9918
4   Tony Allen         MEM     2109     4.7        9875
5   Thabo Sefolosha    OKC     2229     4.4        9744     
6   Kevin Garnett      BOS     2022     4.7        9458
7   Dwight Howard      LAL     2722     3.3        9086
8   Luol Deng          CHI     2903     2.7        7883
9   Tim Duncan         SAS     2078     3.6        7470
10  Taj Gibson         CHI     1459     5.0        7301

Top 10 defensive players by defensive contribution (Defensive IPV weighted by minutes).

Spoiler:

Code: Select all

Rk  Player             Team    MP       D-IPV      MP x D-IPV

1   Paul George        IND     2972     4.1        10402
2   Dwight Howard      LAL     2722     3.7        8983
3   Omer Asik          HOU     2799     2.2        8624
4   Marc Gasol         MEM     2896     3.6        8108
5   Kevin Garnett      BOS     2022     4.8        8088
6   Tony Allen         MEM     2109     2.8        8014
7   Tim Duncan         SAS     2078     4.8        7481
8   Andre Iguodala     DEN     2799     2.9        7223
9   Josh Smith         ATL     2683     2.7        6976
10  Luol Deng          CHI     2903     2.5        6967

To be honest i don't know too much about these stats you've posted (how they com up with them etc). But unlike a lot of defensive stats they look to have no inconsistency's, as all the players on the list are the guys on the list are regarded as the top defenders in the league.

Simply put, they're both estimations of how much each of those players improves their team's scoring margin per 100 possessions by virtue of team performance with them on the floor (while accounting for teammates played with and opponent strength), on the defensive end. Neither is perfect, but this is probably the best picture of defensive quality we're going to get. The right-most column is simply weighting that estimated impact for minutes played.

[Doctor MJ]

Still think this is a odd choice. Not because its undeserving but just because its seemingly a well thought out result. Not as a result of hype or a high athletic player that gets blocks etc . Theyve done well in the choice of this award which often hasnt been the case.

Well put. They often seem to give the award to the guy with the most blocks and/or rebounds just cause.

Fascinating to look at Ibaka: If Ibaka had blocked shots this year like he did last year (but with the greater minutes), it's hard to imagine them passing up his 4 BPG. Instead his blocks drop this year for good reason, and there goes his candidacy.

[Dr Pepper]

Duncan should have won imo. Gasol only wins because of minutes (and because the media voters have always skimped out on Duncan's DPOY), but Duncan's the better defensive player especially when it comes to defending the interior. Last night showed a glimpse of that too, taken from Spurstalk:

To my mind, Duncan & Garnett have been the best per minute defenders in the league for a very long time and continue to be so...but minutes gotta count.

Word, Gasol's minutes is definitely significant. Still I gotta wonder who is voting for these awards...the same guys that vote Kobe into 1st team all NBA?!? IIRC Duncan didn't get a single vote for DPOY last season either, not even one even when Grant Hill, Wade, and Westbrook had at least 1 vote!

In any case it's probably safe to say that Duncan won't get a DPOY for his career now, that resurgence was his last chance

[deliriousmouse]

While i as well probably think George has been better, Im not mad that Gasol has won it. He's a terrific help defender and all 7 foot of him make a very good rim protector.

Also, who would of picked a slow unathletic white Euro winning a DPOY award, Hell even a Gasol?

Also his shoe Defense>All

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTG7aemyZBA

[Doctor MJ]

Duncan should have won imo. Gasol only wins because of minutes (and because the media voters have always skimped out on Duncan's DPOY), but Duncan's the better defensive player especially when it comes to defending the interior. Last night showed a glimpse of that too, taken from Spurstalk:

To my mind, Duncan & Garnett have been the best per minute defenders in the league for a very long time and continue to be so...but minutes gotta count.

Word, Gasol's minutes is definitely significant. Still I gotta wonder who is voting for these awards...the same guys that vote Kobe into 1st team all NBA?!? IIRC Duncan didn't get a single vote for DPOY last season either, not even one even when Grant Hill, Wade, and Westbrook had at least 1 vote!

In any case it's probably safe to say that Duncan won't get a DPOY for his career now, that resurgence was his last chance

DPOY is supposed to be press while All-D is coaches. It's of course widely speculated that All-D essentially gets voted by interns, but either way the coaches themselves don't spend time thinking this stuff through which is why coaches polls are typically the worst no matter the sport or what they are voting on.

Tell you what, it would be fascinating if Gasol missed All-D, and I have to think that's at least a possibility. Last year Gasol got a grand total of 3 points in the voting which was only 1 more than teammate Conley, and as we're discussing Gasol is very much an atraditional DPOY. If Gasol were to get shut out of All-D that might really put a spotlight on how terrible the voting on that award is.

[Mamba Venom]

wow. this is awesome.
first european to win it, i guess?

Wow. The Pau trade is officially fair OR Memphis won it. Bright future for EuroD (it's not a derogatory term anymore)

[Nuntius]

Well, the Grizzlies have the best defense in the league.

The Grizzlies do NOT have the best defense in the league. They have the #2 defense in the league. They are, of course, a great defensive team.

Not that it particularly matters, but once you factor in SOS, good chance Grizzlies come out ahead.

Well, I'm just not too sure how you can measure opponent FG%, opponent 3pt%, opponent fast break points, opponent points in the paint and defensive efficiency if you factor in SOS.

That's all

[va-mos]

Spain is well known for work ethic.

[BackseatBoss]

Great news!

[Nanogeek]

Duncan and LeBron each played better defense this year than Gasol.