My theory about 1-dimensional, offense-killing, pure scorers

Rasho_libre · Post #81 » by **Rasho_libre** » Sun May 19, 2013 10:57 pm

bledredwine wrote:
JDizzel3000 wrote:How many championships did the Multi versed King James win before he went an teamed up with two other prime all stars?

BAM

How many championships has a team won surrounded by sasha pavlovic, eric snow, mo williams, anthony parker and jamario moon. Bam. Your starters were raptors rejects bam. You went to the finals at 21 with them bam. How many 09 type playoff runs has kd and melo had...0... Bam

JDizzel3000 · Post #82 » by **JDizzel3000** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:00 pm

Rasho_libre wrote:
bledredwine wrote:
JDizzel3000 wrote:How many championships did the Multi versed King James win before he went an teamed up with two other prime all stars?

BAM

How many championships has a team won surrounded by sasha pavlovic, eric snow, mo williams, anthony parker and jamario moon. Bam. Your starters were raptors rejects bam. You went to the finals at 21 with them bam. How many 09 type playoff runs has kd and melo had...0... Bam

I think you may have missed the point ... It wast suppose to be a dig at lebron ... Rather a dig at the op's logic

SuperCoolMayo · Post #83 » by **SuperCoolMayo** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:01 pm

nbhadja wrote:
SuperCoolMayo wrote:
nbhadja wrote:
There is a reason why Kobe never won a playoff series in the 3 seasons he played without a elite front court (and that was during his prime).

Because he was always facing better teams? Alot of his teammates never stepped up?

A suns team without Amare is beatable, especially for a player who is supposedly a top 10 GOAT player in his prime. Also he had prime Odom on that team. A real GOAT with prime Odom would wreck a suns team without Amare and at least win 1 playoff series in 3 years in his prime.

Also why was their record so bad that they had to face the #1 seed Suns in the first round ? Because Kobe is not a winner he is a fraud.

Maybe because leading a team where Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, and Luke Walton are top in 5 minute on your team will cause you to lose alot? Why are you refusing you account for supporting casts?

sprint2thecup · Post #84 » by **sprint2thecup** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:06 pm

a one dimensional player is steve novak or matt bonner.

GeorgeDillion · Post #85 » by **GeorgeDillion** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:11 pm

SuperCoolMayo wrote:
Maybe because leading a team where Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, and Luke Walton are top in 5 minute on your team will cause you to lose alot? Why are you refusing you account for supporting casts?

You should have ignored that statement at Prime Odom.

nbhadja · Post #86 » by **nbhadja** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:11 pm

SuperCoolMayo wrote:
nbhadja wrote:
SuperCoolMayo wrote:
Because he was always facing better teams? Alot of his teammates never stepped up?

A suns team without Amare is beatable, especially for a player who is supposedly a top 10 GOAT player in his prime. Also he had prime Odom on that team. A real GOAT with prime Odom would wreck a suns team without Amare and at least win 1 playoff series in 3 years in his prime.

Also why was their record so bad that they had to face the #1 seed Suns in the first round ? Because Kobe is not a winner he is a fraud.

Maybe because leading a team where Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, and Luke Walton are top in 5 minute on your team will cause you to lose alot? Why are you refusing you account for supporting casts?

An actual elite GOAT player like Lebron, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan etc will by themselves transform a scrub team to a high seed (top 3-4 seed at minimum) by themselves. Kobe could only get his team to like an 8th seed and failed to win a playoff series in all 3 tries he got...in his prime....with prime Odom. Kobe is a fraud and just another media hype overrated non-big player like Rose, Wade etc. Then his level of play drops in the playoffs and the media always pretends he carries his team to a win when in reality Gasol was the true 2010 finals MVP and performed just as well in the 2009 and 2010 playoffs as Kobe.

makaveli_99 · Post #87 » by **makaveli_99** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:11 pm

Dajadeed wrote:
Ive wrote:Kobe is as 1-dimensional as you can get but he has won two championships without Shaq. I'm not sure how well this theory holds water, but Kobe disproves it a bit.

It's funny because dude is serious.

indeed, this is the scary part. I'd give him the benefit of the doubt though, he's probably below 14 years of age.

SuperCoolMayo · Post #88 » by **SuperCoolMayo** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:19 pm

GeorgeDillion wrote:
SuperCoolMayo wrote:
Maybe because leading a team where Kwame Brown, Smush Parker, and Luke Walton are top in 5 minute on your team will cause you to lose alot? Why are you refusing you account for supporting casts?

You should have ignored that statement at Prime Odom.

Yeah this guy is acting like Prime Odom is a top 10 player or something

Post #89 » by **og15** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:30 pm

aussieman33 wrote:
theforumblue wrote:in a weird way dirk is closer to being 1-dimensional than any listed. he's just not a black hole.

And in a not weird way, you're wrong. Dirk is a better rebounder, turns it over FAR less, and scores in the post more than all of those players. He's also the only one that creates open shots for his teammates through the post rather than the perimeter.

Dirk is a super efficient scorer who isn't a ball hog. Now I disagree that he's one dimensional outside of his scoring attributes, he can pass fairly well, and he rebounds fairly well defensively. Now, with that said It isn't specifically false that he could be argued as the least "multi-dimensional" of the bunch. Relative to position, he's not more multi-dimensional than Carmelo, he's just better.

Mentioning the different ways he scores doesn't negate the point of dimensions OUTSIDE of scoring. The whole point is that Dirk directly contradicts this false notion that there's some issue with pure scorers as a whole or that there's validity to this thread's original thought. Dirk rebounds better than them because he's a PF/C, and he's not a significantly better rebounder than Melo or Durant who are SF's. so mentioning him grabbing more rebounds doesn't mean so much. But Dirk and Durant's scoring is very different from Iverson's scoring, and a bit different from Melo's scoring, not to mention how they do their scoring.

The obvious problem is lumping the pure scoring of Dirk with that of for example, Iverson. There's a HUGE gap in the effectiveness of Dirk's scoring and that of Iverson's scoring. So saying "pure scorers" as if every one that we can give that title to is the same type of player and that the impact of their scoring is the same across the board is very inaccurate.

Mad Balla 15 · Post #90 » by **Mad Balla 15** » Sun May 19, 2013 11:40 pm

Wow this thread is terrible. I already hate this new generation of fans. It's laughable that someone would think Iverson and McGrady are one dimensional; they were far from that. Also if you consider those two one dimensional scorers you may as well throw in Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant etc. into that group. Oh wait, that doesn't fit your MO. Go on...

LakerLegend · Post #91 » by **LakerLegend** » Mon May 20, 2013 12:20 am

Not trying to denigrate Dirk but he is pretty much a one dimensional player in that his only significant effect on a game is his scoring ability, and he won a championship. You just need the right team built around and they have to be willing to share the ball...to an extent.

Ballah · Post #92 » by **Ballah** » Mon May 20, 2013 12:28 am

A lot of stars have not won championships, they had **** teams.

andremcosta · Post #93 » by **andremcosta** » Mon May 20, 2013 12:41 am

Karl Malone - 0 rings
John Stockton - 0 rings
Barkley - 0 rings
Ewing - 0 rings
Chris Mullin - 0 rings
Kemp - 0 rings
Tim Hardaway - 0 rings
Gervin - 0 rings
Maravich - 0 rings
Wilkins - 0 rings
Baylor - 0 rings
Gary Payton - 1 ring in the end of his career, as a role player.

All those guys would be superstars today. Top5 player or better.

It's just dumb to imply things about players based on rings.

EDIT: Not Mullin and Hardaway. Not top 5. But it doesn't matter. Just see someone avoiding the topic and focusing on that.

MrBigShot · Post #94 » by **MrBigShot** » Mon May 20, 2013 2:38 am

There are probably 2 players in this thread mentioned that are actually one-dimesional.

barborous · Post #95 » by **barborous** » Mon May 20, 2013 2:47 am

As long as a guy knows how his talents can fit best within a team, accepts that, and has the right pieces around him, he can always win a championship.

junot111 · Post #96 » by **junot111** » Mon May 20, 2013 3:44 am

Durant is not a ball hogging scorer normally, but he had to be without Westbrook and it was proven that that failed. But with Westbrook in the lineup I would say KD's scoring comes within the flow of the game very well, better than any superstar other than the Heats

aussieman33 · Post #97 » by **aussieman33** » Mon May 20, 2013 4:06 am

Lakerfan17 wrote:Not trying to denigrate Dirk but he is pretty much a one dimensional player in that his only significant effect on a game is his scoring ability, and he won a championship. You just need the right team built around and they have to be willing to share the ball...to an extent.

Dirk averages 10+ RPG in the playoffs and has three times been top 10 in the NBA in DRB%. Not sure how that's one-dimensional. Prime Dirk rebounded the ball defensively at an elite level.

john248 · Post #98 » by **john248** » Mon May 20, 2013 4:08 am

If TMac and Iverson had Mark Madsen, they wouldn't be seen as 1-dimensional losers.

ezhkw8u69e · Post #99 » by **ezhkw8u69e** » Mon May 20, 2013 5:36 am

Almost by definition if your best player is a volume shooter who doesn't play defense, your chances for winning a title are slim.

theforumblue · Post #100 » by **theforumblue** » Mon May 20, 2013 10:33 pm

aussieman33 wrote:
Lakerfan17 wrote:Not trying to denigrate Dirk but he is pretty much a one dimensional player in that his only significant effect on a game is his scoring ability, and he won a championship. You just need the right team built around and they have to be willing to share the ball...to an extent.

Dirk averages 10+ RPG in the playoffs and has three times been top 10 in the NBA in DRB%. Not sure how that's one-dimensional. Prime Dirk rebounded the ball defensively at an elite level.

it's relative. comparison is what additional thing each brings other than scoring. i guess dirk tries harder to rebound during playoffs. but that doesn't make him an elite rebounder.