Active players you consider top 10 at their postion all time

[therealbig3]

You are drastically underrating what Dwight has done in his career.

As are you with Ewing and Mourning. To say Dwight is better than either of those all-time greats is insulting.

As much as you might hate to admit it...Dwight's an all-time great too.

He's one of the best defensive big men ever, certainly on par with Ewing and Mourning. And offensively, as much crap as he gets (justifiably for the most part imo), he's still a very solid offensive big, and it's not like Mourning or Ewing were all that great offensively either, certainly not way better than Dwight.

At his best, I'd take Dwight over Mourning or Ewing at their best.

[AussieBuck]

Not saying Ewing and Zo weren't great players, but I still feel like Dwight has an edge on both as a defender. (when he's healthy)

I forgot that you're a part time Orlando fan. We are far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far away from agreeing. I'll leave it there.

I think it has more to do with me being younger than being a part time Orlando fan. I only caught the tail end of these guys' career. TBH, I can't imagine a defensive player that is much more dominant than Dwight was with Orlando, I just can't picture it.

This past year, I've contemplated the thought that I've overrated Dwight and underrated Stan Van Gundy as a coach, and his ability to implement an effective defensive system. On the other hand, I've contemplated the thought that Dantoni truly is the worst defensive mind in NBA history and that Stan Van Gundy wasn't that great, Dantoni was THAT bad.

And don't even lie, we're all a little bit Magic fans since they robbed us of Tobes, just like we're all a little bit Warrior fans since we traded for Haveitall.

Yeah our issue here is our rating of Howard. He's a great defender but I don't have him above the Garnett, Bogut, Duncan and co level of the last half dozen years.

[Bucksfans1and2]

I forgot that you're a part time Orlando fan. We are far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far far, far away from agreeing. I'll leave it there.

I think it has more to do with me being younger than being a part time Orlando fan. I only caught the tail end of these guys' career. TBH, I can't imagine a defensive player that is much more dominant than Dwight was with Orlando, I just can't picture it.

This past year, I've contemplated the thought that I've overrated Dwight and underrated Stan Van Gundy as a coach, and his ability to implement an effective defensive system. On the other hand, I've contemplated the thought that Dantoni truly is the worst defensive mind in NBA history and that Stan Van Gundy wasn't that great, Dantoni was THAT bad.

And don't even lie, we're all a little bit Magic fans since they robbed us of Tobes, just like we're all a little bit Warrior fans since we traded for Haveitall.

Yeah our issue here is our rating of Howard. He's a great defender but I don't have him above the Garnett, Bogut, Duncan and co level of the last half dozen years.

I see top 5 finishes with four negative defenders around him. I see a player that was such a dominant defender and rebounder that a team was able to put four players with no real skills other than shooting around him and then ride Dwight to the Finals.

[AussieBuck]

Eh, I don't want to derail the thread any more, they were a bunch of smart help defenders. They didn't have sabateurs on that team. There was enough to work with having an anchor and SVG. The RAPM backs it up IIRC. I think Howard will end up top 10 if he gets his head out of his ass.

[CharlesKane]

You are drastically underrating what Dwight has done in his career.

As are you with Ewing and Mourning. To say Dwight is better than either of those all-time greats is insulting.

I firmly believe that Dwight should have Rose's MVP. I believe that before he got hurt and got involved in the drama with his team, that he was the second best player in the league.

At no point did I come close to feeling that way about Ewing or Zo.

People forget that Zo, despite being known as a defensive player (better than Dwight), was also a great offensive player. He finished 7th in PPG in 1995-96, his third year in the league. He averaged 23.8, 18, 17.8, 19.3, 21.6 and 21.6 during his first 6 years in the league until his kidney condition ruined his career as a superstar. He did this while shoot decent from the field and over 65% from the line, which averaging about 1 assist (not great), 1 steal (decent for a C) and 3.4, 3.3, 1.0, 2.7, 2.5, 2.8 and 3.3 blocks per game. He was never an offense liability and had no off-the-court crazy issues like Dwight, He also has a ring.

Patrick Ewing has a per game average of 21 despite 6 PPG and 9.6 PPF seasons. In 17 seasons he had only FOUR seasons under 20 PPG and only the previously mentioned 2 under 15 PPG. His career average blocks per game is 2.4. His carer average RPG is 9.8, with again, only 4 (his last 4, as with PPG) being under 10). He was a premier star for the NBA from his first season and was the leader of a Knicks team that was always a contender. He never shot under 71% from the line, except for his second last season at a decent 69%.

Meanwhile, Dwight has never scored from that 22.9 (beaten by Zo), No more than 2.9 blocks (beaten by Zo), never hit higher than 67,1% (in his rookie season) FT % (beaten by both), his assists are low (about even with both), Rebounds are higher on average (in an era with less good bigs) and steals are even with Ewing's.

Meanwhile, Dwight is worse as an actual player than both.

How is he better than else guys?

[CharlesKane]

You are drastically underrating what Dwight has done in his career.

As are you with Ewing and Mourning. To say Dwight is better than either of those all-time greats is insulting.

As much as you might hate to admit it...Dwight's an all-time great too.

He's one of the best defensive big men ever, certainly on par with Ewing and Mourning. And offensively, as much crap as he gets (justifiably for the most part imo), he's still a very solid offensive big, and it's not like Mourning or Ewing were all that great offensively either, certainly not way better than Dwight.

At his best, I'd take Dwight over Mourning or Ewing at their best.

I'd take Dwight over Ewing, but never Mourning. In his prime, Zo was a beast on both sides, in an era when centers were actually great.

Right now, Zo would be the best center in the league without a doubt.

[Bucksfans1and2]

As are you with Ewing and Mourning. To say Dwight is better than either of those all-time greats is insulting.

I firmly believe that Dwight should have Rose's MVP. I believe that before he got hurt and got involved in the drama with his team, that he was the second best player in the league.

At no point did I come close to feeling that way about Ewing or Zo.

People forget that Zo, despite being known as a defensive player (better than Dwight), was also a great offensive player. He finished 7th in PPG in 1995-96, his third year in the league. He averaged 23.8, 18, 17.8, 19.3, 21.6 and 21.6 during his first 6 years in the league until his kidney condition ruined his career as a superstar. He did this while shoot decent from the field and over 65% from the line, which averaging about 1 assist (not great), 1 steal (decent for a C) and 3.4, 3.3, 1.0, 2.7, 2.5, 2.8 and 3.3 blocks per game. He was never an offense liability and had no off-the-court crazy issues like Dwight, He also has a ring.

Patrick Ewing has a per game average of 21 despite 6 PPG and 9.6 PPF seasons. In 17 seasons he had only FOUR seasons under 20 PPG and only the previously mentioned 2 under 15 PPG. His career average blocks per game is 2.4. His carer average RPG is 9.8, with again, only 4 (his last 4, as with PPG) being under 10). He was a premier star for the NBA from his first season and was the leader of a Knicks team that was always a contender. He never shot under 71% from the line, except for his second last season at a decent 69%.

Meanwhile, Dwight has never scored from that 22.9 (beaten by Zo), No more than 2.9 blocks (beaten by Zo), never hit higher than 67,1% (in his rookie season) FT % (beaten by both), his assists are low (about even with both), Rebounds are higher on average (in an era with less good bigs) and steals are even with Ewing's.

Meanwhile, Dwight is worse as an actual player than both.

How is he better than else guys?

Pace needs to be taken into consideration for every statistic you just threw out. Significantly higher pace when those guys first came into the league (which you'll notice coincidentally was their best years). You also need to consider that both of those guys put in four years at Georgetown before coming into the league, where as Dwight came out of high school.

Dwight's DRating is right in line with anything that those guys did and Dwight had significant worse defensive talent around him.

[CharlesKane]

Pace needs to be taken into consideration for every statistic you just threw out. Significantly higher pace when those guys first came into the league (which you'll notice coincidentally was their best years). You also need to consider that both of those guys put in four years at Georgetown before coming into the league, where as Dwight came out of high school.

Dwight's DRating is right in line with anything that those guys did and Dwight had significant worse defensive talent around him.

I love how coming out of school later is a disadvantage for some arguments but a positive for others.

Ewing and Mourning have had better careers than Dwight right now. Period.

Dwight will probably surpass them right now he hasn't yet.

The end.

Relax.

He will probably surpass them.

Right now he hasn't.

It's okay.

[Bucksfans1and2]

Pace needs to be taken into consideration for every statistic you just threw out. Significantly higher pace when those guys first came into the league (which you'll notice coincidentally was their best years). You also need to consider that both of those guys put in four years at Georgetown before coming into the league, where as Dwight came out of high school.

Dwight's DRating is right in line with anything that those guys did and Dwight had significant worse defensive talent around him.

I love how coming out of school later is a disadvantage for some arguments but a positive for others.

Ewing and Mourning have had better careers than Dwight right now. Period.

Dwight will probably surpass them right now he hasn't yet.

The end.

Relax.

He will probably surpass them.

Right now he hasn't.

It's okay.

I can't come up with a single scenario where coming out of school later is an advantage. Emphasis on skill development in college is significantly greater than in the NBA, as well as guys having the advantage of physically more mature bodies when they enter the league.

Dwight's team success is also on par or greater than Ewing's despite having inferior teammates. I can't figure out anyway it's an insult to a guy to compare him to Dwight Howard. Dwight may not be your favorite guy, but he is a seriously good basketball player.

[CharlesKane]

Pace needs to be taken into consideration for every statistic you just threw out. Significantly higher pace when those guys first came into the league (which you'll notice coincidentally was their best years). You also need to consider that both of those guys put in four years at Georgetown before coming into the league, where as Dwight came out of high school.

Dwight's DRating is right in line with anything that those guys did and Dwight had significant worse defensive talent around him.

I love how coming out of school later is a disadvantage for some arguments but a positive for others.

Ewing and Mourning have had better careers than Dwight right now. Period.

Dwight will probably surpass them right now he hasn't yet.

The end.

Relax.

He will probably surpass them.

Right now he hasn't.

It's okay.

I can't come up with a single scenario where coming out of school later is an advantage. Emphasis on skill development in college is significantly greater than in the NBA, as well as guys having the advantage of physically more mature bodies when they enter the league.

Dwight's team success is also on par or greater than Ewing's despite having inferior teammates. I can't figure out anyway it's an insult to a guy to compare him to Dwight Howard. Dwight may not be your favorite guy, but he is a seriously good basketball player.

Not saying Dwight is a bad basketball player, but it is WAY too early to say he's better than Ewing, Mourning or Mutombo. Mourning was the "defensive center" comparison to him if anyone, but Zo was better defensively AND offensively compared to Dwight. Mutombo has him defensively (by a lot) but not offensively. Ewing has him in overall play. Give Dwight a few seasons in Houston and he'll pass Ewing (most overrated player of the last 30 years), Mutombo and Mourning (most underrated center of the last 30 years), but I still wouldn't put him in the top ten centers. The NBA used to excel based on it's Cs. Dwight is played in the era of the weak 5. He won't be a top 10 center untiil the Rockets win 2 rings.

[Bucksfans1and2]

I love how coming out of school later is a disadvantage for some arguments but a positive for others.

Ewing and Mourning have had better careers than Dwight right now. Period.

Dwight will probably surpass them right now he hasn't yet.

The end.

Relax.

He will probably surpass them.

Right now he hasn't.

It's okay.

I can't come up with a single scenario where coming out of school later is an advantage. Emphasis on skill development in college is significantly greater than in the NBA, as well as guys having the advantage of physically more mature bodies when they enter the league.

Dwight's team success is also on par or greater than Ewing's despite having inferior teammates. I can't figure out anyway it's an insult to a guy to compare him to Dwight Howard. Dwight may not be your favorite guy, but he is a seriously good basketball player.

Not saying Dwight is a bad basketball player, but it is WAY too early to say he's better than Ewing, Mourning or Mutombo. Mourning was the "defensive center" comparison to him if anyone, but Zo was better defensively AND offensively compared to Dwight. Mutombo has him defensively (by a lot) but not offensively. Ewing has him in overall play. Give Dwight a few seasons in Houston and he'll pass Ewing (most overrated player of the last 30 years), Mutombo and Mourning (most underrated center of the last 30 years), but I still wouldn't put him in the top ten centers. The NBA used to excel based on it's Cs. Dwight is played in the era of the weak 5. He won't be a top 10 center untiil the Rockets win 2 rings.

You're underrating Dwight Howard defensively. I don't think it's possible to be better defensively by a lot than a healthy Dwight Howard. The guy took home, and actually deserved, three straight DPOY awards.

The era of the weak Center hurts Dwight as well as helps him. The reasons for the fall off in seven foot monsters, hurt as well as helped him. Much of the developmental infrastructure that was in place for centers is gone. The Center is no longer the focus of the NBA offense as defensive strategy has changed.

[madatyou]

funny that you guys are willing to put durant in these discussions but not dwight. dwight already has more winshares than zo and only a season away from dikembe who played FOREVER and he is just hitting his prime at 27. look at his splits and the lakers record last season after the all star break when he got healthy. 18/14 /3 on 11 shots a game. right on cue with his averages before. Dwight is a massive joke as a person. That doesn't mean he isn't great.

[jgosche]

Dont know how many of you have seen this, but Basketball-reference made a stat that calculated "hall of fame probability".

Here's a link: http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... bile=false

Not sure how they calculated it exactly, seems like they may have put too much weight in scoring and championships considering how much higher guys like Bosh are than guys like Nash. Still pretty interesting

So, obviously not a totally accurate stat for determining all-time greats, because its totally stats reliant, but here's what they have:

HOF locks (100%-90%)
Kobe
Dunxan
Lebron
Wade
Garnett
Nowitzki
Pierce
Allen
Kidd
Bosh

Almost locks (89%-80%)
CP3
Parker
Melo
Howard

Probable (79%-50)
Carter
Durant
P. Gasol
T-Mac
Nash
Amare

[shawngoat23]

PG: Paul, Nash, (Parker)
SG: Kobe, Wade, (Allen), (McGrady)
SF: LeBron, Durant, (Pierce)
PF: Duncan, Garnett, Dirk, Gasol
C: Howard

Players I'm unsure about in parentheses (mainly because I haven't taken the time to make my top 10 lists yet).

[MaxRider]

PF - Tim Duncan
SF - LeBron James
SG - Koe Bryant

that's all

There's no way in hell that's all. KG, Dirk, Nash and D-Wade are all locks.

i missed Garnett
i don't think Nowizki, Nash, and Wade are top 10
tittle said it all
it's my opinion

[Belarion]

PF - Tim Duncan
SF - LeBron James
SG - Koe Bryant

that's all

There's no way in hell that's all. KG, Dirk, Nash and D-Wade are all locks.

i missed Garnett
i don't think Nowizki, Nash, and Wade are top 10
tittle said it all
it's my opinion

just curious which 8/9 player do you take over Nowitzki and Wade?

[maxpower88]

PG:
-Nash
-Kidd

SG:
-Kobe

SF:
-LeBron (not a traditional PF, still consider him a SF)
-Durant

PF:
-Duncan
-Dirk
-Garnett

C:
-Dwight? (I can name 8 centers that are hands-down better but after that I'm not so sure)

[brownbobcat]

pretty selected hate to not even mention dwight as top 10 center ever when he clearly is. not too many people have won 3 defensive players of the years. only ben and dikembe have and they average about 7-11ppg less than dwight. the only centers ahead of dwight are wilt, rusell, gilmore, kareem, shaq, hakeem, drob and possibly ewing. dwight is easily 8-10th.

At the same respective point in the careers, Dwight isn't THAT far ahead of Mutombo or Mourning. If he can come back with Houston and regain his old form, he might edge into the top 10 ahead of Reed/Thurmond/Parish/etc.