Gordon Hayward- what will the best offers be?

[Luigi]

He will get a max offer.

And this is Team Building 101 on how you DON'T win NBA championships.

LOT of teams with cap space this year. Nobody's going to waste their time offering 4/40 or something they know Utah will match. The rule of the game is that you have to overpay RFA. Somebody will get shut out on their 1st and 2nd choices and offer Hayward 4/52. Utah will match.


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You have to compete to get free agents. That doesn't mean it is always a good idea to massively overpay for free agents.

[jazzfan1971]

Somebody will get shut out on their 1st and 2nd choices and offer Hayward 4/52. Utah will match.

This sounds about right to me as well.

[ILOVEIT]

Gordon just seems like Mike Dunlevy II....a guy that does things...but non of them great. I think in the NBA you have to one thing great ...shooting...passing...defense...something.

I just don't see the demand for this kind of player. Solid on a bad team....probably a bench guy on a good team.

[NBAfan3024]

Cavs planning on making a big offer now.

[davids22]

Well the suns offered eric gordon a max deal and new orleans matched it, and i'd like to think gordon hayward is more useful then an injury plagued eric gordon so i do think the max salary he is going to find is a max deal... having said that he is definitely not worth that much i would give him 10-11m/yr

Yeah, Eric Gordon was a much better player. Check out their head to head seasons before their payday:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2011

Gordon:
22.3 ppg (.506 efg)

Hayward:
16.2 ppg (on .454 efg)


Gordon Hayward rebounds better, but Eric Gordon was a much, much better scorer. He was a year younger, and won 7 more games than the Jazz did.

muh ppg

[Speedlot]

12 mil

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[Johnlac1]

He's solid, like you said, but committing a maximum salary to a guy says you think he's going to be a franchise cornerstone. If that is the case here, your franchise is going to be pretty crappy.

Like other posters said, Hayward's a good player, but the third or maybe fourth option on a contender. Do you pay top dollar for that? I don't think so. But he and his agent might feel they have Utah over a barrel. Unless Exum comes out with a spectacular rookie season (unlikely), Hayward will still be their best player over Favors and possibly Kanter or Burke. If he won't accept less than the max, I'd deal him for somebody else and/or picks.

Well, they can't deal him now. He's a free agent.

Well, okay then. Bye Gordon.

[Novocaine]

Gordon just seems like Mike Dunlevy II....a guy that does things...but non of them great. I think in the NBA you have to one thing great ...shooting...passing...defense...something.

I just don't see the demand for this kind of player. Solid on a bad team....probably a bench guy on a good team.

Dunleavy was always a bad defender. Hayward is a pretty good one. And Dunleavy was unlucky - during his prime, he was stuck in a bad team and bugged with serious injuries that almost ended his career. A prime Dunleavy with good defense is a very good player for a contending team.

[Luigi]

Well the suns offered eric gordon a max deal and new orleans matched it, and i'd like to think gordon hayward is more useful then an injury plagued eric gordon so i do think the max salary he is going to find is a max deal... having said that he is definitely not worth that much i would give him 10-11m/yr

Yeah, Eric Gordon was a much better player. Check out their head to head seasons before their payday:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... 01&y2=2011

Gordon:
22.3 ppg (.506 efg)

Hayward:
16.2 ppg (on .454 efg)


Gordon Hayward rebounds better, but Eric Gordon was a much, much better scorer. He was a year younger, and won 7 more games than the Jazz did.

muh ppg

6 more points at a much more efficient rate is nothing to thumb your nose at. Check out the comparison link I provided.

Gordon just seems like Mike Dunlevy II....a guy that does things...but non of them great. I think in the NBA you have to one thing great ...shooting...passing...defense...something.

I just don't see the demand for this kind of player. Solid on a bad team....probably a bench guy on a good team.

Dunleavy was always a bad defender. Hayward is a pretty good one. And Dunleavy was unlucky - during his prime, he was stuck in a bad team and bugged with serious injuries that almost ended his career. A prime Dunleavy with good defense is a very good player for a contending team.

Hayward is an average defender. He gets some rep after chasing down a fast break for a block, and people start remember AK47, but that's just wishful thinking. Hayward gets beat too much to be above average. But he's not bad.

[big_ticket]

give kyle kover's contract period

[dorkestra]

I think he would fit well in Atlanta tbh.

[Lake Forrest]

Thanksfully the MAX contract died talked a while back, it was strong last season....

You look at players like Batum, Galanari, and see that the going rate for a decent swing player is around 10 million dollars a year and above.

From another thread:

Eric Gordon - 4 Years / $58 Mil
Josh Smith - 4 Years / $54 Mil
Andre Iguodala - 4 Years / $48 Mil
Tyreke Evans - 4 Years / $44 Mil
Nicolas Batum - 4 Years / $44 Mil
Thaddeus Young - 5 Years / $43 Mil
Danilo Gallinari - 4 Years / $42 Mil
Gerald Wallace - 4 Years / $40 Mil
Ersan Ilyasova - 5 Years / $40 Mil
Demar DeRozan - 4 Years / $38 Mil
Wilson Chandler - 5 Years / $31 Mil
Marcus Thornton - 4 Years / $31 Mil
Kevin Martin - 4 Years / $27 Mil

A lot of these guys proved more than Hayward did last season before their big payday.

Lol at demar and Thaddeus being paid nearly 20 mil less than EG, that's painful

[carl_english]

Putting up stats in a bad team. MLE all day!

[verbal8]

I think Hayward will get a max/near-max offer sheet.

[erudite23]

Gordon is worth 10m+ He's a big wing who can shoot, handle, facilitate and defend. I think his scoring numbers will rebound sharply this year and that if he is properly used he'll post TS% in the 55-60% range. If you add efficient scorer to the above list, that's suddenly an extremely valuable player. If Exum can become the alpha dog on the perimeter for the Jazz and Gordo slides into the 2nd spot, everything will click. There are two important things to consider here: 1) the cap is going to spike dramatically here over the next few years, which means our idea of contract value will shift accordingly. Part of the big $$ we're seeing being thrown around so far are with that in mind. 2) A potential 4 year contract will run concurrently with Exum's rookie deal, if Dante becomes the player we hope him to be, we will more than gain in value on Exum what we lose on a potential max deal for Gordon. If Exum becomes a star, he will come up for an extension at the same time that Gordon comes off his deal (and will likely be due for a significant pay cut) and everything will work out fine.

I am not in favor of giving Gordon the max, but we would be much worse off losing him as a player than to have to pay him 4m/year more than he's worth.

[dautjazz]

Gordon is worth 10m+ He's a big wing who can shoot, handle, facilitate and defend. I think his scoring numbers will rebound sharply this year and that if he is properly used he'll post TS% in the 55-60% range. If you add efficient scorer to the above list, that's suddenly an extremely valuable player. If Exum can become the alpha dog on the perimeter for the Jazz and Gordo slides into the 2nd spot, everything will click. There are two important things to consider here: 1) the cap is going to spike dramatically here over the next few years, which means our idea of contract value will shift accordingly. Part of the big $$ we're seeing being thrown around so far are with that in mind. 2) A potential 4 year contract will run concurrently with Exum's rookie deal, if Dante becomes the player we hope him to be, we will more than gain in value on Exum what we lose on a potential max deal for Gordon. If Exum becomes a star, he will come up for an extension at the same time that Gordon comes off his deal (and will likely be due for a significant pay cut) and everything will work out fine.

I am not in favor of giving Gordon the max, but we would be much worse off losing him as a player than to have to pay him 4m/year more than he's worth.

If we match a MAX or near MAX contract, it's going to make it that much harder to resign guys like Burks and Kanter in the near future, then Burke if we decide to keep him. I say for anything about $12M, let him go, he's far too inconsistent and hasn't shown to be anywhere near a MAX level player for a consistent amount of time. If you overpay just to not lose players, you'll never build a competitive team in a league with a salary cap.

[inquisitive]

parsons is paying REAL close attention to this.

[Luigi]

Gordon is worth 10m+ He's a big wing who can shoot, handle, facilitate and defend. I think his scoring numbers will rebound sharply this year and that if he is properly used he'll post TS% in the 55-60% range. If you add efficient scorer to the above list, that's suddenly an extremely valuable player. If Exum can become the alpha dog on the perimeter for the Jazz and Gordo slides into the 2nd spot, everything will click. There are two important things to consider here: 1) the cap is going to spike dramatically here over the next few years, which means our idea of contract value will shift accordingly. Part of the big $$ we're seeing being thrown around so far are with that in mind. 2) A potential 4 year contract will run concurrently with Exum's rookie deal, if Dante becomes the player we hope him to be, we will more than gain in value on Exum what we lose on a potential max deal for Gordon. If Exum becomes a star, he will come up for an extension at the same time that Gordon comes off his deal (and will likely be due for a significant pay cut) and everything will work out fine.

I am not in favor of giving Gordon the max, but we would be much worse off losing him as a player than to have to pay him 4m/year more than he's worth.

I think we can hope for much better opportunities between now and Exum's contract extension than a max offer for Gordon Hayward.

Side point: Hayward is not that big. Dante Exum has the same standing reach. Alec Burks has a higher standing reach. If anything, Gordon is an undersized 3, or a slow 2.

I used to like the kid, but all this talk about a max deal and being an extremely valuable player in the right circumstances is insane. We've seen him play for 4 years. He should be hoping to be an average starter next year. He'd a third or fourth option on virtually every team above 500. I think Jazz fans have totally forgotten what good players actually look like. I mean, we hated Al Jeff and Paul Millsap while they were here. And then we fell in love with a weak core of young players. Favors will be like Dwight! Hayward will be a multiple all-star! Kanter will drop 25/12 soon. None of these guys are franchise players, and we need to remember what franchise players really are. If the rebuild doesn't lift its eyes to a higher level, we'll end up on the 9-12 spot treadmill in the west while overpaying a bunch of scrubs.

[MalonesElbows]

Gordon is worth 10m+ He's a big wing who can shoot, handle, facilitate and defend. I think his scoring numbers will rebound sharply this year and that if he is properly used he'll post TS% in the 55-60% range. If you add efficient scorer to the above list, that's suddenly an extremely valuable player. If Exum can become the alpha dog on the perimeter for the Jazz and Gordo slides into the 2nd spot, everything will click. There are two important things to consider here: 1) the cap is going to spike dramatically here over the next few years, which means our idea of contract value will shift accordingly. Part of the big $$ we're seeing being thrown around so far are with that in mind. 2) A potential 4 year contract will run concurrently with Exum's rookie deal, if Dante becomes the player we hope him to be, we will more than gain in value on Exum what we lose on a potential max deal for Gordon. If Exum becomes a star, he will come up for an extension at the same time that Gordon comes off his deal (and will likely be due for a significant pay cut) and everything will work out fine.

I am not in favor of giving Gordon the max, but we would be much worse off losing him as a player than to have to pay him 4m/year more than he's worth.

Except he can't shoot AND facilitate at the same time, that was made clear last year, unless an 82 game sample size is not ample.

[erudite23]

He can shoot and facilitate at the same time, but he's not going to be terrible efficient if he's your first option for offense. Also, give the kid some time to grow. I'm just as down on how he played last year as anyone, but let's not fly to the other extreme.

I think we can hope for much better opportunities between now and Exum's contract extension than a max offer for Gordon Hayward.

Side point: Hayward is not that big. Dante Exum has the same standing reach. Alec Burks has a higher standing reach. If anything, Gordon is an undersized 3, or a slow 2.

I used to like the kid, but all this talk about a max deal and being an extremely valuable player in the right circumstances is insane. We've seen him play for 4 years. He should be hoping to be an average starter next year. He'd a third or fourth option on virtually every team above 500. I think Jazz fans have totally forgotten what good players actually look like. I mean, we hated Al Jeff and Paul Millsap while they were here. And then we fell in love with a weak core of young players. Favors will be like Dwight! Hayward will be a multiple all-star! Kanter will drop 25/12 soon. None of these guys are franchise players, and we need to remember what franchise players really are. If the rebuild doesn't lift its eyes to a higher level, we'll end up on the 9-12 spot treadmill in the west while overpaying a bunch of scrubs.

No one is saying that Gordon Hayward is a franchise player. Not even the biggest Jazz homer alive would think that (I hope not, anyway). But you seem to be blind to some basic realities of the NBA. Talent is talent. There are limited means of acquiring that talent. As it stands, the Jazz need Hayward far more than we need our cap space.


Look around you. This is the NBA. The Jazz could sign TWO max players this summer. Yet at the end of the day, we are going to come away with who? Trevor Booker? If we get super lucky and super aggressive, maybe we will be able to overpay Trevor Ariza?

Our deal with GS that netted us two first rounders in exchange for absorbing deals into our cap space is already looking like an ancient memory. No one will be able to get that kind of haul in this summer's market place, as too many people have open cap space.

This is a seller's market. And being aggressive to get the guy you want is the play. Matching this deal is definitely a tough pill to swallow, but keep in mind that there are real NBA teams lining up to pay him this kind of cash. That means that is his value on the market. Cap space doesn't win games, players do. And the cap space that is likely to be taken up by this deal is very unlikely to be better spent elsewhere. Now maybe I'm missing something here, so if I am please feel free to enlighten me. Where exactly could the Jazz use these $$ that would be a better investment?