NBA looking to change Draft Lottery; 76ers say no

[Sixersftw]

I had no problem when it happened to those teams. I'd have no problem if the Sixers drafted a player with a high draft pick, but not simply throwing seasons away to do it.

They aren't throwing away a season. They do extensive player development and spend wisely instead of signing middling free agents that would simply lead them to the mediocrity they've been mired in for the better part of a decade. Being upset about the Sixers tanking seems silly to me because its almost based on something ridiculous or short sighted. Moreover, everyone with this faux outrage never has a reasonable alternative for a franchise that started w/ next to nothing of value to build into a contender.

Also, anyone assuming they would be upset if they were a season ticket holder or sixers fan is likely wrong. The great majority of the fanbase is down with this plan. When you've been a fan of a team that has objectively sucked for about a decade your prospective on winning 19 games vs 25 might change.

[BullyKing]

I had no problem when it happened to those teams. I'd have no problem if the Sixers drafted a player with a high draft pick, but not simply throwing seasons away to do it.

They aren't throwing away a season. They do extensive player development and spend wisely instead of signing middling free agents that would simply lead them to the mediocrity they've been mired in for the better part of a decade. Being upset about the Sixers tanking seems silly to me because its almost based on something ridiculous or short sighted. Moreover, everyone with this faux outrage never has a reasonable alternative for a franchise that started w/ next to nothing of value to build into a contender.

Also, anyone assuming they would be upset if they were a season ticket holder or sixers fan is likely wrong. The great majority of the fanbase is down with this plan. When you've been a fan of a team that has objectively sucked for about a decade your prospective on winning 19 games vs 25 might change.

Pretty much this. They don't understand that we'd rather watch KJ McDaniels play 30 minutes a game next year and win 20 games than watch those minutes go to Evan Turner and win 25.

[BullyKing]

What Sixers is doing is actually the best for the league. Because it is the FASTEST and has the LOWEST CHANCE FOR FAILURE way of building a contender. And the amount of current assets the Sixers has right now and the projected assets they have in the next 2 seasons should speak volumes on the effectiveness of this plan.

By Sixers' 3rd year in their rebuilding plan they will have..

MCW
NOEL
EMBIID
SARIC
2015 lotto
2016 lotto
30m in cap space

McDaniels
Jerami Grant
Wroten
Thaddeus Young

ALL IN JUST 3 YEARS

If we are looking out to 2016, highly unlikely Thad is there. But it doesn't matter - the Sixers are ruining the competitive balance of the league by not signing guys so they could lose by 15 every night instead of 20.

But in the long term (projected to be in the playoffs by 2016; 3rd year), having anotheryoung contender in the east will be greatly beneficial for the league for a long time.

Yeah, my post was pure sarcasm. What Hinkie has done in 15 months in acquiring those assets after taking over with a team with really one a single asset (or two if you can't Thad) in house is incredible.

[snoopdogg88]

Don't see why people act like the Sixers are like the Marlins who bring very little talent to the table for the owners to make a cheap buck. Yes, they're losing "on purpose", but its part of a long term plan to win. Talk about the league being competitive - well its not just on the court. The Sixers are trying as hard as any team in the league to put a quality product on the court, it just won't be seen for a while.

Besides, what's the difference between a fabricated bad team and a genuinely bad team? They both need help, and the one with the long term plan is likely to be better for the prospect anyways.

I agree with you.

This is what I don't understand about the people who hate the Sixers.

Why do people not grasp they are actually trying to put out the best team possible? and in order to do that they need to put themselves in position to get the best players in the draft and free agency?


In order to do that under the NBA's current rules and system in place, you have to be really bad before you get really good.

[omerome]

Sigh. And the way to start winning games is by getting good players with high draft picks like Miami with Wade, OKC with Durant, or SAS with Duncan.

I had no problem when it happened to those teams. I'd have no problem if the Sixers drafted a player with a high draft pick, but not simply throwing seasons away to do it.

You mean like the Spurs sitting out Sean Elliott? Or do you mean the pre-Durant Sonics giving over 25 minutes a game EACH to Nick Collison, Luke Ridnour, Earl Watson, Chris Wilcox, and Damien Wilkins. Or maybe the big minutes they got from Johan Petro (18.6mpg), or the 18 mpg for something named Mickael Gelabale.

The Spurs sitting out Elliott? Wasn't he way past his prime and ready to retire? This isn't even the same comparision. What about the Spurs getting called old, slow, and boring each year by many and STILL find talent outside of the lottery? Or the Sonics/Thunder selecting Westbrook who many thought was a reach at his draft and have him develop into one of the best guards in the league? Them Getting Steven Adams/Reggie Jackson?

Obviously it takes some luck to get one of the best players in the league, but I can't get behind what the Sixers are trying to do. They competely have given up winning for a chance at winning later. If I was a fan I'd be frustrated because there's no guarantee it will happen. Even if they do get the #1 pick, who knows if that player pans out, and what then? Tank again next year?

[snoopdogg88]

People need to get lives. I cant think of any other reason why a non sixers fan would get so ticked off about it besides jealously.

No one ever wants to admit it, but it partly comes from jealousy.

[BullyKing]

I had no problem when it happened to those teams. I'd have no problem if the Sixers drafted a player with a high draft pick, but not simply throwing seasons away to do it.

You mean like the Spurs sitting out Sean Elliott? Or do you mean the pre-Durant Sonics giving over 25 minutes a game EACH to Nick Collison, Luke Ridnour, Earl Watson, Chris Wilcox, and Damien Wilkins. Or maybe the big minutes they got from Johan Petro (18.6mpg), or the 18 mpg for something named Mickael Gelabale.

The Spurs sitting out Elliott? Wasn't he way past his prime and ready to retire? This isn't even the same comparision. What about the Spurs getting called old, slow, and boring each year by many and STILL find talent outside of the lottery? Or the Sonics/Thunder selecting Westbrook who many thought was a reach at his draft and have him develop into one of the best guards in the league? Them Getting Steven Adams/Reggie Jackson?

Obviously it takes some luck to get one of the best players in the league, but I can't get behind what the Sixers are trying to do. They competely have given up winning for a chance at winning later. If I was a fan I'd be frustrated because there's no guarantee it will happen. Even if they do get the #1 pick, who knows if that player pans out, and what then? Tank again next year?

It'd be nice if you even tried to know the facts before making your arguments. Sean Elliott was an all-star the year before Duncan was drafted at age 29.

[snoopdogg88]

I had no problem when it happened to those teams. I'd have no problem if the Sixers drafted a player with a high draft pick, but not simply throwing seasons away to do it.

You mean like the Spurs sitting out Sean Elliott? Or do you mean the pre-Durant Sonics giving over 25 minutes a game EACH to Nick Collison, Luke Ridnour, Earl Watson, Chris Wilcox, and Damien Wilkins. Or maybe the big minutes they got from Johan Petro (18.6mpg), or the 18 mpg for something named Mickael Gelabale.

The Spurs sitting out Elliott? Wasn't he way past his prime and ready to retire? This isn't even the same comparision. What about the Spurs getting called old, slow, and boring each year by many and STILL find talent outside of the lottery? Or the Sonics/Thunder selecting Westbrook who many thought was a reach at his draft and have him develop into one of the best guards in the league? Them Getting Steven Adams/Reggie Jackson?

Obviously it takes some luck to get one of the best players in the league, but I can't get behind what the Sixers are trying to do. They competely have given up winning for a chance at winning later. If I was a fan I'd be frustrated because there's no guarantee it will happen. Even if they do get the #1 pick, who knows if that player pans out, and what then? Tank again next year?

Okay, once again, whats your alternative? Bring back mediocre overpaid players like Evan Turner and Spencer Hawes?


Some of you have really warped ideas of what it means to "try to win" or "try to be competitive"

I just watched the Sixers win 30-40 games for the last decade, finishing 8th, 9th, 10th seed every year and getting bounced in the first round every other season and having mediocre draft picks and little cap space.

It sucked. It was boring and it really really sucked.
If thats considered "trying" to win, I don't ever want to try again

[StunnaStan]

I dont think the problem is the current draft lottery format. The real problem at hand is the playoff seeding. If they make the playoffs the best 16 teams regardless of conference, then the worst 14 records league wide will be in the lottery. most of the teams that need some help via lottery are in the east quite honestly.

Phx won 48 games last season while the bobcats won 38 -__- . phx is one of the top 16 teams in the league if your going by record. them adding tj warren wont be as impacful as if he wouldve landed on the bobcats where he would immediatly be put into a position to suceed. phx is a 48 win team with a set rotation tj needs to crack as opposed to the bobcats who basically try to switch it up every year cause it never works out.

teams like atl, charlotte will continue to be stuck at the mendoza line if the they make the playoffs with the 17th-24th best record in the league because they arent good enough to win and arent adding good enough talent via draft because they have later selections

[76ciology]

I had no problem when it happened to those teams. I'd have no problem if the Sixers drafted a player with a high draft pick, but not simply throwing seasons away to do it.

They aren't throwing away a season. They do extensive player development and spend wisely instead of signing middling free agents that would simply lead them to the mediocrity they've been mired in for the better part of a decade. Being upset about the Sixers tanking seems silly to me because its almost based on something ridiculous or short sighted. Moreover, everyone with this faux outrage never has a reasonable alternative for a franchise that started w/ next to nothing of value to build into a contender.

Also, anyone assuming they would be upset if they were a season ticket holder or sixers fan is likely wrong. The great majority of the fanbase is down with this plan. When you've been a fan of a team that has objectively sucked for about a decade your prospective on winning 19 games vs 25 might change.

Yup, I'd also like to add about Sixers' player development.

For those saying what Sixers is doing is stunting the players growth..

Spencer Hawes, Thaddeus Young and Evan Turner had their best days playing for the Sixers last season. At some point last season when the team was able to beat the top teams like the Heat, Rockets, Bulls (with Drose) and the Cavs? Hawes averaged 15/10/2..
http://www.thesixerscave.com/2013/11/25/the-new-and-improved-spencer-hawes/

Evan turner averaged 20/7/4
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/pattisonave/drives-evan-turner-key.html

and Thad 20ppg 2spg and even won a player of the week award

And MCW, the guy who was said to be TO prone, can't create, doesn't have advanced ball handling and can't shoot. Averaged 17ppg 7rpg 7apg and almost 2spg.

Tony Wroten went from being a 2ppg player to a 13ppg player
http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2013/12/20/tony-wrotens-journey-from-benched-rookie-to-most-improved-player-candidate/

Hollis Thompson
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/sports/sixers/76ers-film-review-Inventing-Hollis-Thompson.html

Henry Sims
http://www.libertyballers.com/features/2014/4/6/5585814/henry-sims-sixers-greg-foster-al-jefferson

Even Nerlens Noel has been 100% healthy with improved shooting mechanics and higher vertical leap.
http://www.libertyballers.com/2014/4/9/5596076/nerlens-noel-injury-sixers-return-76ers

The whole Sixers rebuilding program is focused on player improvement.
http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/64381/philadelphias-victory-lab

Sam Hinkie during his post draft press conference went on to say that he received calls from agents that they want to play for the Sixers because of the environment for improvement the sixers have. Even Turner asks Falk to talk to Hinkie not to trade him because he enjoyed playing with the Sixers.

I know you guys are skeptics but if you look at the facts and see how the sixers' initiative and going the extra mile for player improvement, you'd see that we are not building some LA Clippers Darius Miles Era or Sacramento Kings (no offense) in here.

It's really a promising program if you look at it. Specially if you consider how much the team's assets has improved after the aftermath of the Andrew Bynum disaster.

[Vides990]

I had no problem when it happened to those teams. I'd have no problem if the Sixers drafted a player with a high draft pick, but not simply throwing seasons away to do it.

They aren't throwing away a season. They do extensive player development and spend wisely instead of signing middling free agents that would simply lead them to the mediocrity they've been mired in for the better part of a decade. Being upset about the Sixers tanking seems silly to me because its almost based on something ridiculous or short sighted. Moreover, everyone with this faux outrage never has a reasonable alternative for a franchise that started w/ next to nothing of value to build into a contender.

Also, anyone assuming they would be upset if they were a season ticket holder or sixers fan is likely wrong. The great majority of the fanbase is down with this plan. When you've been a fan of a team that has objectively sucked for about a decade your prospective on winning 19 games vs 25 might change.

Lol please explain to me how they're doing extensive player development with a team devoid of any veteran presence and filled with d-leaguers? Having rookies/young players play against players worse then them constantly or playing on the same team with them doesn't help them grow as much if they had other players whose lead they could follow. They pick up bad habits (MCW is forming some quickly), continually make bad decisions and don't improve without the guidance from their peers (and that doesn't even take life/social skills into context), coaches only go so far in this league, its not college. But by all means, keep thinking that having a 20-25% at the number 1 pick is so much better then having a 15-20% chance and will bring you your dynasty.

[Vides990]

People need to get lives. I cant think of any other reason why a non sixers fan would get so ticked off about it besides jealously.

No one ever wants to admit it, but it partly comes from jealousy.

LOL fans jealous of losing, now I've heard everything.

[76ciology]

Let's be realistic here.

Sixers started their rebuilding process with a lot of debt and limited assets because of the irresponsibility of the previous management.

The team owed a 1st rounder because of the Bynum deal and another 1st for the Mareese Speights deal. Both guys who are as good as gone to the team.

The only remaining assets are Jrue.. which we all know Hinkie has worked his wizardry that allowed him to get the best prospect in the 2013 draft along with Saric and a 2017 1st rounder and another 2nd rounder.

The expiring contracts of mediocre players in Turner and Hawes, which I really believe Hinkie did his best to get the best deal out of them for 2nd rounders which Hinkie.

With the current salary cap, it makes completely no sense to go trigger happy and sign mediocre FAs into long term contracts nor overpaying guys like Hayward or Bledsoe.

With the draft, it also makes completely no sense to pass up Nerlens with the 6th overall or Embiid with the 1st overall. Nerlens has the potential to be a DPOY player and Embiid has the potential to be a franchise player. Yes, both has medical risks (not red flagged medically) but you also have to consider that health is not the only risk you factor in selecting your guys but also the risk in drafting busts and mediocre players.

With that said, Hinkie made all the logical moves in terms of getting the best talent for the team with such limited assets and time (only starting it's 2nd year of rebuilding this 2014-2015 season), while maintaing cap flexibility for creating space to re-signing the guys or for the opportunity to sign a big time FA in the future.

If you have any better idea than that, please post your proposal. I challenge you.

[BullyKing]

People need to get lives. I cant think of any other reason why a non sixers fan would get so ticked off about it besides jealously.

No one ever wants to admit it, but it partly comes from jealousy.

LOL fans jealous of losing, now I've heard everything.

Not real interested in what Cavs fans have to say about the subject.

Did the 2002-03 Cavs tank to get LeBron James?

At the time, many assumed they did. John Lucas, who coached the team from 2001 to 2003, admitted somewhat bitterly that he went along with the apparent conspiracy: "They trade all our guys away and we go real young, and the goal was to get LeBron and also to sell the team," Lucas told AOL FanHouse in 2010. "You can't fault the Cavaliers for wanting to get LeBron. It was hard to get free agents to come there."

Lucas pointed out that before the 2002-03 season, Cavs management traded their three leading scorers and received almost nothing of value in return. Of course, Gordon Gund, the Cavs’ owner at the time, denied Lucas’ claims that the Cavs were tanking to get LeBron, the local hero.

Ricky Davis was one of the beneficiaries of the Cavs’ questionable moves -- in 2002-03, after several key teammates had been traded away, he led Cleveland by far in minutes, field goal attempts, scoring, assists and steals.

Yet he, too, told AOL Fanhouse that the Cavs were losing on purpose: "It was tough on [Lucas]. They were forcing him to lose and I know it's nothing he wanted to do. It's just the position he was forced in. But it's tough. ... It worked, whatever they did [to get James] so it's hard to knock them. They got what they wanted. But it was hard on Luke."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -the-truth

[MRxBLACK]

Should be titled "NBA looking to punish 76ers for creating a rebuilding strategy based on the NBA's current rules."

[Vides990]

Not real interested in what Cavs fans have to say about the subject.

Did the 2002-03 Cavs tank to get LeBron James?

At the time, many assumed they did. John Lucas, who coached the team from 2001 to 2003, admitted somewhat bitterly that he went along with the apparent conspiracy: "They trade all our guys away and we go real young, and the goal was to get LeBron and also to sell the team," Lucas told AOL FanHouse in 2010. "You can't fault the Cavaliers for wanting to get LeBron. It was hard to get free agents to come there."

Lucas pointed out that before the 2002-03 season, Cavs management traded their three leading scorers and received almost nothing of value in return. Of course, Gordon Gund, the Cavs’ owner at the time, denied Lucas’ claims that the Cavs were tanking to get LeBron, the local hero.

Ricky Davis was one of the beneficiaries of the Cavs’ questionable moves -- in 2002-03, after several key teammates had been traded away, he led Cleveland by far in minutes, field goal attempts, scoring, assists and steals.

Yet he, too, told AOL Fanhouse that the Cavs were losing on purpose: "It was tough on [Lucas]. They were forcing him to lose and I know it's nothing he wanted to do. It's just the position he was forced in. But it's tough. ... It worked, whatever they did [to get James] so it's hard to knock them. They got what they wanted. But it was hard on Luke."

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_ ... -the-truth

I'm an NBA fan before I'm a Cle fan, I never support tanking on purpose, yes Cle tanked for the hometown hero and we all saw how that turned out.....he left and they won no Championships

[Snotbubbles]

If there's anything the Sixers prove in the last two years, it's that you don't need to have the no.1 pick to get the best players in the draft.

Sixers didn't had the no.1 pick for MCW and Noel. Sixers again didn't have the no.1 pick for Embiid.

Changing the system on the other hand would just make teams with poor scouts and FO a harder time to improve their team.

This move only benefits the big market teams by eliminating the advantage that is the ONLY advantage by small market teams because of their difficulty to lure big time FA to sign with them. They will now rely on more luck in the lotto and more luck that some teams would just bend over them.

It has been proven that MCW/Noel and Embiid are the best players in their respective drafts? News to me. I didn't know you could go without playing a single NBA minute and be proven to be the best in your draft class.

You could argue that MCW is the best in the 2013 draft but when is a rookie of the year award proof of that? Tyreke Evans won the 2009 ROY award, but does anybody think he's better than James Harden, Blake Griffin or Stephen Curry? No way.

Using advanced analytics, Noel and Embiid were the top guys in their respective drafts.

[LloydFree]

I had no problem when it happened to those teams. I'd have no problem if the Sixers drafted a player with a high draft pick, but not simply throwing seasons away to do it.

You mean like the Spurs sitting out Sean Elliott? Or do you mean the pre-Durant Sonics giving over 25 minutes a game EACH to Nick Collison, Luke Ridnour, Earl Watson, Chris Wilcox, and Damien Wilkins. Or maybe the big minutes they got from Johan Petro (18.6mpg), or the 18 mpg for something named Mickael Gelabale.

The Spurs sitting out Elliott? Wasn't he way past his prime and ready to retire? This isn't even the same comparision. What about the Spurs getting called old, slow, and boring each year by many and STILL find talent outside of the lottery? Or the Sonics/Thunder selecting Westbrook who many thought was a reach at his draft and have him develop into one of the best guards in the league? Them Getting Steven Adams/Reggie Jackson?

Obviously it takes some luck to get one of the best players in the league, but I can't get behind what the Sixers are trying to do. They competely have given up winning for a chance at winning later. If I was a fan I'd be frustrated because there's no guarantee it will happen. Even if they do get the #1 pick, who knows if that player pans out, and what then? Tank again next year?

Again. Clueless. Sean Elliott and David Robinson were in their 20's when the Spurs tanked for Duncan. And the saint-like Popavich was the GM who orchestrated the whole thing

[OrlandoNed]

If there's anything the Sixers prove in the last two years, it's that you don't need to have the no.1 pick to get the best players in the draft.

Sixers didn't had the no.1 pick for MCW and Noel. Sixers again didn't have the no.1 pick for Embiid.

Changing the system on the other hand would just make teams with poor scouts and FO a harder time to improve their team.

This move only benefits the big market teams by eliminating the advantage that is the ONLY advantage by small market teams because of their difficulty to lure big time FA to sign with them. They will now rely on more luck in the lotto and more luck that some teams would just bend over them.

It has been proven that MCW/Noel and Embiid are the best players in their respective drafts? News to me. I didn't know you could go without playing a single NBA minute and be proven to be the best in your draft class.

You could argue that MCW is the best in the 2013 draft but when is a rookie of the year award proof of that? Tyreke Evans won the 2009 ROY award, but does anybody think he's better than James Harden, Blake Griffin or Stephen Curry? No way.

Using advanced analytics, Noel and Embiid were the top guys in their respective drafts.

They still haven't played a second of NBA basketball and for the time being they will have that "when healthy" asterisk over their heads. It doesn't matter what advanced analytics say about a guy when they are on the bench in a suit.

[tundraknight]

Well obviously the 76ers would fight it since they know how bad they're going to suck this season