Bogut:"Maybe 5 or 6 teams play team oriented basketball

JonFromVA · Post #81 » by **JonFromVA** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:54 pm

It's fun to see team play come back in to vogue and popularity, but those superstar driven ISO teams have won a lot of championships. It's funny that when hand-checking was taken out of the game that old the old ISO stars were salivating over how many points they'd score, but the other changes that allow for zones and packing the paint countered that, and encourage passing and movement.

FIBA ball went too far the other way, but the NBA may have have struck a decent balance.

BarbaGrizz · Post #82 » by **BarbaGrizz** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:22 pm

Maybe a good measure can be secondary assists per game. In this ranking, the top 3 teams are, in order: Spurs, GSW and Memphis (with Lakers in dead last)

reignfire · Post #83 » by **reignfire** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:35 pm

Bogut talks a lot for being a number one pick and now being a injury prone role player at best.

UnbelievablyRAW · Post #84 » by **UnbelievablyRAW** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:50 pm

Have no idea what Raptors offense other people are watching

Only Lowry, Derozan or Lou have any say in who shoots on offense. If they don't pass you the ball you're not shooting

Wizenheimer · Post #85 » by **Wizenheimer** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:04 pm

bondom34 wrote:
Choker wrote:
Optms wrote:Based on assist per game, the teams that represent the most ball movement:

Celtics - 25.8
Warriors - 25.7
Wizards - 24.6
Hawks - 24.3
Blazers - 23.9
Mavericks - 23.9
Spurs - 23.5
Clippers - 22.0
Bulls - 22,0
Cavaliers - 21.9

A better stat would be touches per possession.

Or passes per game maybe.
http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/p ... PASS&dir=1

I'm not sure passes/game mean a lot. Sometimes, bad teams make a a lot of passes because their offense is not functioning well...kind of like playing hot potato. There is also the pace factor. And teams with a poor inside game can pass more as they simply swing the ball around the perimeter. That doesn't necessarily indicate good offense

for instance, Portland ranks 18th in passes per game. Yet they rank in the top-5 in 5 of those 8 assist categories, & 8th in secondary assists. Meaning (IMO) that for Portland, passes/game is a fairly meaningless stat

further, the top-3 teams in passes/game rank 17th, 19th, & 30th in offensive rating; and 14th, 17th, & 30th in TS%

Hangtime84 · Post #86 » by **Hangtime84** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:11 pm

Tetlak wrote:Spurs
Warriors
Mavericks
Blazers
Grizzlies
Hawks
Bulls

Thats my list right there.

I agree with this list

whocurrz · Post #87 » by **whocurrz** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:29 pm

reignfire wrote:Bogut talks a lot for being a number one pick and now being a injury prone role player at best.

Well to be fair his role is pretty damn important as he's a defensive anchor who gives a team DPOY caliber play. Pretty close in value to a great offensive centerpiece who gives mediocre offense. Dominant rebounder, great shotblocker, eats up space and a true defensive quarterback. He also sets great screens, delivers good passes and is actually one of the better post up C's in the league (although that says more about others than him). He's not Perkins on offense just plays with 4 other guys who are solid to very good contributors on that end of the floor. If the teams could re-draft the current players from the 2005 draft only player I can say for sure would be drafted over him is CP3.

reignfire · Post #88 » by **reignfire** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:34 pm

whocurrz wrote:
reignfire wrote:Bogut talks a lot for being a number one pick and now being a injury prone role player at best.

Well to be fair his role is pretty damn important as he's a defensive anchor who gives a team DPOY caliber play. Pretty close in value to a great offensive centerpiece who gives mediocre offense. Dominant rebounder, great shotblocker, eats up space and a true defensive quarterback. He also sets great screens, delivers good passes and is actually one of the better post up C's in the league (although that says more about others than him). He's not Perkins on offense just plays with 4 other guys who are solid to very good contributors on that end of the floor. If the teams could re-draft the current players from the 2005 draft only player I can say for sure would be drafted over him is CP3.

You will be singing a different tune when he gets injured again.

jackwindham · Post #89 » by **jackwindham** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:40 pm

Bogut is allowed to have an opinion just like we are. Him being injury prone, that doesn't take away his right to that.

whocurrz · Post #90 » by **whocurrz** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:44 pm

reignfire wrote:
whocurrz wrote:
reignfire wrote:Bogut talks a lot for being a number one pick and now being a injury prone role player at best.

Well to be fair his role is pretty damn important as he's a defensive anchor who gives a team DPOY caliber play. Pretty close in value to a great offensive centerpiece who gives mediocre offense. Dominant rebounder, great shotblocker, eats up space and a true defensive quarterback. He also sets great screens, delivers good passes and is actually one of the better post up C's in the league (although that says more about others than him). He's not Perkins on offense just plays with 4 other guys who are solid to very good contributors on that end of the floor. If the teams could re-draft the current players from the 2005 draft only player I can say for sure would be drafted over him is CP3.

You will be singing a different tune when he gets injured again.

I took that into consideration, but other players from that draft include Deron Williams who has also been injury prone and doesn't have the impact of a healthy Bogut. David Lee who has been a bit injury prone at this point in his career and doesn't have the impact of a healthy Bogut. Amir Johnson, Lou Williams, Monta Ellis are the only other guys to really consider and I'd take a chance on healthy Bogut over any of those three, especially considering he hasn't had lingering injury issues like Oden's knees or Yao's foot.

nurseryc · Post #91 » by **nurseryc** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:39 pm

naabzor wrote:I'm a little sad about Bogut. We all know that he is a monster of a center, he can transform your defense, he can improve your offense, he is skilled he can pass... I think even if he is really good that injuries ruined his career.

How has it ruined his career, unless your saying pre injury Bogut was the sort of player that would be in MVP talk each year? He is arguably the leagues best defender and golden States title hopes live or die with him being healthy. He can pretty much shut down any centre when matched up against him, he is that good.He is in his prime and absolutely dominating in his required 25 minutes which is only due to golden States massive leads. He is very effective offensively this year when called upon and last year led the NBA in field goal and previously in blocks. He is the player any team in the Nba would kill to have.

inquisitive · Post #92 » by **inquisitive** » Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:33 pm

Spurs and Raptors

GANGSTERDOG · Post #93 » by **GANGSTERDOG** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:57 am

Spurs, bulls , warriors, Mavericks, Magic, celtics, suns, raptors, grizzlies

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FrieAaron · Post #94 » by **FrieAaron** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:42 am

nurseryc wrote:
naabzor wrote:I'm a little sad about Bogut. We all know that he is a monster of a center, he can transform your defense, he can improve your offense, he is skilled he can pass... I think even if he is really good that injuries ruined his career.

How has it ruined his career, unless your saying pre injury Bogut was the sort of player that would be in MVP talk each year? He is arguably the leagues best defender and golden States title hopes live or die with him being healthy. He can pretty much shut down any centre when matched up against him, he is that good.He is in his prime and absolutely dominating in his required 25 minutes which is only due to golden States massive leads. He is very effective offensively this year when called upon and last year led the NBA in field goal and previously in blocks. He is the player any team in the Nba would kill to have.

I've mentioned it before, but check out his stats the year he went down for the Bucks. He was a monster and improving rapidly that season. He's really picked it up again with Golden State but he still a shell of that year.

streetp0et · Post #95 » by **streetp0et** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:20 am

reignfire wrote:Bogut talks a lot for being a number one pick and now being a injury prone role player at best.

To be fair, you probably have just as much of an opinion on things and you've never played a minute in the NBA. *shrug*

Chocolate City Jordanaire · Post #96 » by **Chocolate City Jordanaire** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:47 am

Optms wrote:
Yoshun wrote:
Optms wrote:Based on assist per game, the teams that represent the most ball movement:

Celtics - 25.8
Warriors - 25.7
Wizards - 24.6
Hawks - 24.3
Blazers - 23.9
Mavericks - 23.9
Spurs - 23.5
Clippers - 22.0
Bulls - 22,0
Cavaliers - 21.9

That's a little deceiving though. Most of those teams have one guy who's averaging a bunch of assists. Assists per game aren't always a great indication of ball movement.

I kind of agree with Bogut here. Most teams really are just iso.

Well, I've watched a lot of games this season and before I even looked those stats up, I figured these teams vying to make this list. All these teams move the ball incredibly well.

Even the Wizards and Celtics, who despite having a ball dominant PGs, are incredibly unselfish. The ball never sticks. Constant ball movement.

In general the Wizards are unselfish. However, Wall often resorts to isolation ball at the end of games. The ball sticks most of the time and hero ball usually comes up short. It's frustrating because you're right that the Wizards are unselfish. Wall creates a lot of good shots for teammates the majority of the time.

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ChokeFasncists · Post #97 » by **ChokeFasncists** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:59 am

Little Digger wrote:LA Lakers!

They do whenever Kobe's not chucking.

EricAnderson · Post #98 » by **EricAnderson** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:04 pm

You can thank aau for ruining team basketball

Alswank87 · Post #99 » by **Alswank87** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:10 pm

GANGSTERDOG wrote:Spurs, bulls , warriors, Mavericks, Magic, celtics, suns, raptors, grizzlies

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I see you're a magic fan. I must say, watching the magic is torture for me. It's three guys standing out around the three point line while vuc posts up and the pg brings it down. Is not team ball at all. It's terrible basketball.

Zombiesonics · Post #100 » by **Zombiesonics** » Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:16 pm

EricAnderson wrote:You can thank aau for ruining team basketball

less prospects fall through the cracks with the help of aau though. its an organization thats completely necessary for amateur sports, you can pin the best vs the best in aau. its not like a player dominants peach jam then turns out to be crap.

overall i'm annoyed by the comment, mainly because the warriors still aint ****. but this is just boguts personality, nba fans know this. There are a ton of teams that play 'team ball', more than 6.

Grizz
Spurs
Bulls
Mavs
Rockets
Raptors
Heat
ATL
the WIZ