ESPN - Does Draymond Green deserve a max deal?

[Lord Cuban]

I hope the 100 players you can name are not in the list you posed 2 posts earlier, because I would take Draymond over at least 15 of those guys.

To be fair he is a DeMarre Carroll level player... I imagine that i can name 100 players over him easily without bringing guys like Anthony Davis, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, James Harden to the table...
I would start my list with 3 rookies and 3 sophomores Jabari Parker, Andrew Wiggins, Nerlens Noel, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Victor Oladipo and Mason Plumlee....

[Naija Boy]

IMHO only LeBron James, Kevin Durant, James Harden, Russell Westbrook, Step Curry deserve max contract now

Ok this is a stupid thing to say. First of all how the **** is Anthony Davis not on that list (among others)? Second of all.....:

The max is not the same for every player. I strongly encourage you and many others on RealGM to read through this:http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm or at least reference it before spewing nonsense in relation to NBA Finances.

The max for a player with:

0-6 years experience is $14,746,000
7-9 years experience is $17,695,200
10+ years experience is $20,644,400

These are the 1st year salaries of a new max deal for NBA players, and are equivalent to 25%, 30% and 35% of the 2014-15 salary cap and are obviously subject to change if and when the salary cap changes in 2015-16 and so on.

Additionally, some players can actually make more than the 10+ years exp max, only if the 105% of the last year of their previous contract is greater than the value of the 10+ years exp max. An example of this would be LeBron who is currently making $20,644,400, and thus eligible for a new max deal starting at $21,676,620 in the offseason.

Now see the stupidity in saying "only players A, B, C deserve the max, X, Y and Z don't". You're applying a VARIABLE term "the max" and using it as a constant. The max for a player like Jimmy Butler would only start at ~15M, compared to a Marc Gasol (who believe will have 7 years of experience at the end of the season) who has a max of $17,695,200. You can't just lump everyone into one group.

I'd be down to pay Jimmy Butler 14.75M. I wouldn't be down to pay him 20.6M but he's not ELIGIBLE for that money because this is his 4th season.

Get educated before posting, seriously.

[DynastySS]

I hope the 100 players you can name are not in the list you posed 2 posts earlier, because I would take Draymond over at least 15 of those guys.

To be fair he is a DeMarre Carroll level player... I imagine that i can name 100 players over him easily without bringing guys like Anthony Davis, LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, James Harden to the table...
I would start my list with 3 rookies and 3 sophomores Jabari Parker, Andrew Wiggins, Nerlens Noel, Giannis Antetokounmpo, Victor Oladipo and Mason Plumlee....

Oh, I just figured out you only look at ppg, and fg%.

Yikes. Carry on then.

[gipper08]

I can name more than 100 players who are better than him in this league.

Uh. No you can't. He is a lock for top 50 and is playing top 25 so far this season.

Tobias harris
Parsons and even Gordon hayward are not better than Draymond Green.

[NBAfan3024]

I can name more than 100 players who are better than him in this league. To me he is a guy that can take something like 10 million per year contract but not the max deal.... For example i can bring to you the Chandler Parsons deal. do you think the Mavs would give a 15 million contract to Chandler Parsons if Dirk didn't take the parsons kind of money?

Hahah I love posts like this.

If you hate defense and don't see its worth, Draymond Green likely looks like a very average "glue guy".

If you watch Draymond Green play, trust the advanced statistics, and love defense, he is a max level player. When a top 5 defender in the NBA - and he is a top 5 defender in the NBA - is able to both pass and hit the 3 ball while also giving you the luxury to guard 2-4's at an elite level, he is pretty invaluable.

The fact that he is top 10 in the NBA in RPM behind only Curry/Lillard/Harden/CP3/AD/Lowry/Wall/Millsap/Butler, is top 10 in Box +/-, is top 10 in the league in VORP, and is #1 in the league in Defensive Rating and Defensive Win Shares is not a glitch in all of their systems. He brings massive - max contract level - impact.

He Must be a boxscore watcher clearly...What Green does is not something you can just base on what comes up on the statsheets. Hopefully other GM's value him like the guy you are quoting.

[loserX]

RealGM loves defence. Coaches love defence. Advanced stats are getting closer to tracking defence. But it's offence that gets you paid. I can't think of many players who have gotten max contracts on the basis of defence without also having some excellent offensive skills of some description. Parsons got a max deal in large part because he can get his own shot. Hayward got his because he can shoot and create for others. Dray is great but he doesn't really have the kinds of skills that get guys big contracts.

(There are exceptions, I guess, but not many. I expect Dray will be well paid because the Warriors would love to keep him. But a max? I don't expect so, no.)

[Young_Star11]

He's not a max contract player but I think he should be a $10+ m guy. So many good plays this year and very underrated.

[suntzuballin]

Any team sign him to a max is a sucker,this is his contract year he has underdog mentally causebhe was drafted 2nd round wasnt it the very last pick to.6-7mill sounds reasonable.

[DynastySS]

Any team sign him to a max is a sucker,this is his contract year he has underdog mentally causebhe was drafted 2nd round wasnt it the very last pick to.6-7mill sounds reasonable.

If we could sign the potential DPOY for 6 million dollars the NBA should investigate the Warrior front office for illicit activity.

[suntzuballin]

How much is Demarre Carroll paid again?use that as a starting point.Jimmy Butler should get max.

[loserX]

RealGM loves defence. Coaches love defence. Advanced stats are getting closer to tracking defence. But it's offence that gets you paid. I can't think of many players who have gotten max contracts on the basis of defence without also having some excellent offensive skills of some description. Parsons got a max deal in large part because he can get his own shot. Hayward got his because he can shoot and create for others. Dray is great but he doesn't really have the kinds of skills that get guys big contracts.

(There are exceptions, I guess, but not many. I expect Dray will be well paid because the Warriors would love to keep him. But a max? I don't expect so, no.)

How many players can you think of in the last 25 years with Green's skill-set on both ends?

Tony Allen is one of the best defenders in the world; he's not on a max contract, nor would he get one if he were FA today. Green definitely has more offensive skill than Allen, but I personally still don't think it's enough to be a max guy.

Like I said, it's offence that gets you paid. Being "pretty good" at offence generally doesn't get you a max deal. (Conversely, if you're elite on offence, you can even get away with "pretty bad" on defence and you might still get maxed.) Could it happen to Green? I suppose...but I would be surprised.

[Lord Cuban]

How many players can you think of in the last 25 years with Green's skill-set on both ends?

Al-Farouq Aminu
DeMarre Carroll
Anthony Mason

I'm sorry bro cant bring LeBron James, Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Jason Kidd, Charles Barkley, Dwyane Wade, Kevin Garnett, Larry Bird, Clyde Drexler, Grant Hill, Shawn Marion, Dennis Rodman, Andre Iguodala (76ers and Denver) to this versatile conversation...

[tiderulz]

Let's play the "let's hand out max contracts based on ESPN's RPM" game.

Based on last season's RPM
Channing Frye (RPM +10.83) was #14 in the league, and deserving of a max contract. He was ahead of Tim Duncan, Dwight Howard, James Harden, and Lillard.

Gratz Orlando on your superstar!

IF he gets max, with Thompson getting the max, and David Lee at $15mil, if im Steph Curry, im like WTF!!!!

Thompson's contract is not even a real max. If Green got true max, he would eventually get paid more than Klay.

whoa, killer, lets slow your roll. Orlando didnt give out near a max contract and Frye is producing what we need. A bit over priced, but thats what happens when you arent a winning team.

[loserX]

Tony Allen is one of the best defenders in the world; he's not on a max contract, nor would he get one if he were FA today. Green definitely has more offensive skill than Allen, but I personally still don't think it's enough to be a max guy.

Like I said, it's offence that gets you paid. Being "pretty good" at offence generally doesn't get you a max deal. (Conversely, if you're elite on offence, you can even get away with "pretty bad" on defence and you might still get maxed.) Could it happen to Green? I suppose...but I would be surprised.

Tony Allen is a great wing defender (albeit less so now), but has no 3pt shot, is not a playmaker, and can't create for himself. He also can't guard both Blake Griffin and CP3 in ISO on back to back possessions. He's an undersized 2 with no offensive talent.

At his best, he was not nearly as impactful as Dray currently is, and the stats would back that up in droves.

Fair enough. Doesn't change my point: being "pretty good" on offence usually doesn't get you the max, historically speaking. GMs would rather pay for elite offence than elite defence. (Centres are sometimes, but not always, the exception.)

Will Dray be the one to set a new precedent? Maybe...but I doubt it. Seems most Warrior fans agree, for what that's worth.

[DanTown8587]

Taj Gibson was a superior defender (if only because of his ability to protect the rim while being equally able to guard a switch in a P&R) and he only got 4/32 when he resigned with the Bulls. Obviously the cap has gone up and Taj didn't sign that deal against an open market, but I can't imagine Green is worth about 175% of that.

There are a TON of things Draymond does but there are two he does not:

1. Create efficient personal and/or team offense
2. Have the length or quickness to be a disruptive defender

In this league, how many guys who didn't have those two skills get paid close to a max deal? Draymond Green might be one of the best role players in the NBA and if you were building a team and had legit stars around it, he fits what you want the 4th guy on the floor to do perfectly; he's not a guy who in any situation comes in and makes everyone better.

I'd also like to point out that we're talking about a guy shooting sub .350 from three when 40% of his threes are open/wide open and 92% of his shots come with one dribble or less. What team with max cap space is a Draymond Green away?

[NBAfan3024]

Tony Allen is one of the best defenders in the world; he's not on a max contract, nor would he get one if he were FA today. Green definitely has more offensive skill than Allen, but I personally still don't think it's enough to be a max guy.

Like I said, it's offence that gets you paid. Being "pretty good" at offence generally doesn't get you a max deal. (Conversely, if you're elite on offence, you can even get away with "pretty bad" on defence and you might still get maxed.) Could it happen to Green? I suppose...but I would be surprised.

Tony Allen is a great wing defender (albeit less so now), but has no 3pt shot, is not a playmaker, and can't create for himself. He also can't guard both Blake Griffin and CP3 in ISO on back to back possessions. He's an undersized 2 with no offensive talent.

At his best, he was not nearly as impactful as Dray currently is, and the stats would back that up in droves.

Fair enough. Doesn't change my point: being "pretty good" on offence usually doesn't get you the max, historically speaking. GMs would rather pay for elite offence than elite defence. (Centres are sometimes, but not always, the exception.)

Will Dray be the one to set a new precedent? Maybe...but I doubt it. Seems most Warrior fans agree, for what that's worth.

For Selfish reasons all Warriors fans are hoping he doesn't get close to max no doubt

[Lord Cuban]

How many players can you think of in the last 25 years with Green's skill-set on both ends?

Al-Farouq Aminu
DeMarre Carroll
Anthony Mason

I'm sorry bro cant bring LeBron James, Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen, Michael Jordan, Jason Kidd, Charles Barkley, Dwyane Wade, Kevin Garnett, Larry Bird, Clyde Drexler, Grant Hill, Shawn Marion, Dennis Rodman, Andre Iguodala (76ers and Denver) to this versatile conversation...

Oh man, somebody needs to fire Draymond's media team if this is actually what people think are apt comparisons.

Aminu is a horrible offensive player who can't shoot, can't pass, and is both a weaker defender and a weaker playmaker.

DeMarre Carroll. See above.

Anthony Mason was a good defender and well rounded enough offensively, but he couldn't guard perimeter players and could not hit a 3. Those are two huge attributes to have from a PF. And without looking it up I can tell you there is no way he was putting up the advanced stats defensively Dray currently is.

So you are you are saying that D. Green is on Paul George, Gerald Wallace, Shawn Marion, Tayshaun Prince, Josh Smith, Luol Deng, Andre Iguodala (76ers and Denver), Metta World Peace, Andrei Kirilenko, Gary Payton level... He is not on the same level with this guys

[DanTown8587]

Taj Gibson was a superior defender (if only because of his ability to protect the rim while being equally able to guard a switch in a P&R) and he only got 4/32 when he resigned with the Bulls. Obviously the cap has gone up and Taj didn't sign that deal against an open market, but I can't imagine Green is worth about 175% of that.

There are a TON of things Draymond does but there are two he does not:

1. Create efficient personal and/or team offense
2. Have the length or quickness to be a disruptive defender

In this league, how many guys who didn't have those two skills get paid close to a max deal? Draymond Green might be one of the best role players in the NBA and if you were building a team and had legit stars around it, he fits what you want the 4th guy on the floor to do perfectly; he's not a guy who in any situation comes in and makes everyone better.

I'd also like to point out that we're talking about a guy shooting sub .350 from three when 40% of his threes are open/wide open and 92% of his shots come with one dribble or less. What team with max cap space is a Draymond Green away?

To the bold -- WHAT???

All the guy does is disrupt plays. He's the most disruptive defender on one of the highest rated defenses of the last 10 years. And brother he has a 7'1"+ wingspan. The guy has gorilla limbs.

Are people talking about the same player here? Is there 2 Draymond Green's in this league??

Green defensively is almost like Taj Gibson in how I'd rate: one of the best in the league, very quick, can guard a ton of players on a switch, always in the right position. But these aren't the Hibbert/Tony Allen defenders, they're a step below that. I'd have Draymond Green on my all-NBA first team defense at F, he's that good. But when I say disruptive, I mean teams actively change their offense BEFORE a game to have it not involve someone (i.e a rim drive against Indiana) or he just takes the best players in the league and doesn't allow them to get to their spots on the floor or their shots at the rim.

[Lord Cuban]

My NBA All-Defensive 1st team this year is:

Rajon Rondo
Jimmy Butler
Pau Gasol
Anthony Davis
Tony Allen

[DanTown8587]

My NBA All-Defensive 1st team this year is:

Rajon Rondo
Jimmy Butler
Pau Gasol
Anthony Davis
Tony Allen

I'm a go ahead and tell you right now that there isn't a Bulls fan alive who'd agree with his inclusion and many would say Jimmy's defense has slipped this year compared to last.