76ers will become dynasty in 10 years

[psualltheway5]

According to whom?

When I look at NBADraft.net, Williams was a 99, Rubio a 97, Wesley Johnson a 97, Flynn a 94.

Embiid a 100, Russell a 98, Noel a 95.

So NBADraft.net believed they were roughly equal prospects.

Can you link me to an article that supports your statement?

Oh God.

According to just about every draft analyst with a brain.

I would agree with you on Embiid if not for his injury history. Broken feet at age 18 is scary. Combine that with a fractured back...yikes. No way on Noel. He had tons of flaws coming out of college and fell to 6th in an absolutely terrible draft. I have no idea on Russell. Ohio State players in general scare me.

C'mon man. If you are going to rip on a player, at least understand why he fell to 6th.

[Ponchos]

According to whom?

When I look at NBADraft.net, Williams was a 99, Rubio a 97, Wesley Johnson a 97, Flynn a 94.

Embiid a 100, Russell a 98, Noel a 95.

So NBADraft.net believed they were roughly equal prospects.

Can you link me to an article that supports your statement?

Oh God.

According to just about every draft analyst with a brain.

I would agree with you on Embiid if not for his injury history. Broken feet at age 18 is scary. Combine that with a fractured back...yikes. No way on Noel. He had tons of flaws coming out of college and fell to 6th in an absolutely terrible draft. I have no idea on Russell. Ohio State players in general scare me.

That's some excellent analysis: "Ohio State players in general scare me." Are you currently employed in Billy King's advanced analytics department?

[wickedwrister]

We haven't won a chip in like what 30+ years? Haven't been relevant for damn near 15. I think a championship would make all of this worth it...and its not like we were coming off of greatness pre-hinkie anyway...the highligh of that era was being a dead Bulls team..barely. and dying slow against a dying Bostons squad...WHICH might I add was BLOWN UP prior to Hinkie coming here. I also would like to add that we weren't even the worst team in the league either of these last two years. So at the end of the day this isn't even that big of a step back as people are acting....if it doesn't work. It doesn't work. Nothing new except Post Hinkie would actually have assets to deal and cap space to use instead of the dead carcass Hinkie had.

I probably underestimated how badly Sixers fans want a title. I guess when you look at it, its been 30 years , whats another 10, i can see how Philly fans can be okay with that, however again, if it takes Philly 10 yeasr to win 1 title, but SVG (for instance) does it in 5 years, then i feel at that point Philly's experiment is a failure. If in 10 years Philly creates a dynasty , then i'd be more inclined to say Hinkie move was smart.

furthermore if the NBA changes the rules of tanking, which is very possible in the next couple years, and philly is unable acquire the pieces needed to create that dynasty as they intend, then these past couple years of suck would be for nothing. My point is that Philly is risking a lot on a experiment so lengthy, and its reasonable to say its dumb considering the 1,000's of factors involved.

You are selling short how hard it is to win a chip, plus if we ever win one with this group chances are we were pretty good those other years before breaking through. You don't just go from awful to winning a chip in a years span. So if we have about 6 years of playoffs and stuff and 1 year of championship..I'd take that in a heart beat and all of it would have been worth it. 2 bad years for 6 good years plus 1 amazing year? Sign me up today.

That is what I think a lot of people are missing. We just want a team with the CHANCE to win. Haven't had that since Iverson. Winning a chip is the obvious end goal but just being in the conversation is a hell of a lot better than what the Iggy era was (i.e hoping to perhaps scare a team, and a win a few games but never any championship aspirations). Just going into a season with legit title hopes would feel great.

So no, that would not be a failure. (that only happens when after the championship, Hinkie is unable to keep us there lol)

Honestly being what the Clippers are now, a team with a few stars and legitimately in the title conversation when the playoffs start is a success.

Its really really hard to be a title contender in the NBA. In any given year there are really about 5-6 teams that have a shot and those are the same 5-6 teams for a few years. In a decade pretty much only half the teams in the league have a year where they legitimately feel they could sniff a ring.
In the last 10 years these are the franchises that even sniffed a ring:
Lakers
Orlando
Detroit
Miami
Indiana
Phoenix
OKC
Boston
Dallas
Chicago
Cleveland
Memphis
OKC
San Antonio
Warriors
Clippers
maybe the Rockets

Another 13 franchises have gone a decade without ever really believing they were a legitimate title contender unless they were drinking the homer Kool Aid

[psualltheway5]

8 years ago the Blazers were the future dynasty team. And they even had players good enough to somewhat justify such a thought. Phillys current roster doesn't have 5% of the potential that squad had let alone the Thunder a few years ago.

Just stop. The Blazers had a great core decimated by injuries.

Saying the Sixers don't have 5% of the potential of OKC is also foolish. You are obviously angry at the Sixers for whatever reason, but don't make blanket statements that are senseless.

I would go as far as to say Phillys entire roster doesn't have 5% of Durants talent let alone Durant/WB/Harden/Ibaka potential core

If we are talking about pure talent, Embiid rivals Durant as a prospect. Noel is way better defensively than any of those guys, too.

Not sure where you are getting these numbers, but they are laughable.

[XxIronChainzxX]

Next year, the Sixers will have four No. 1 picks — their own, the Lakers’, the Thunder’s and the Heat’s. Even if only two of those four picks pan out to be great players, the core could include Noel, Embiid, Saric, Russell and at least two others.

The only one of those picks that isn't protected is Philly's own, so they *might* have anywhere from 1-4 picks. Sheridan is talking as though everything that can break right for Philly will do so.

Of course, that's the ceiling of the plan, and he has every right to believe that if he wants. (He may be right!) It could also all go wrong, and that's the floor of the plan. Nothing any of us can do except see how it plays out.

I'm not sure even if they get 4 picks in one draft that's necessarily great. If you're lucky and it's one of those legendary graft years (e.g. the Lebron class year). But even then you need multiple top 5 picks. You could always strike gold with other picks but I'm not sure one draft has enough talent to get more than 1 great player (if you're smart) out of 4 top 10 picks.

[Blkbrd671]

You are selling short how hard it is to win a chip, plus if we ever win one with this group chances are we were pretty good those other years before breaking through. You don't just go from awful to winning a chip in a years span.

i think sixers are truly underestimating how long it takes to learn how to win and win with youth. Minny is a great example of that.

So if we have about 6 years of playoffs and stuff

So years of being treadmill team? i thought that was the whole reason for making this move, was to get away from that?

and 1 year of championship..I'd take that in a heart beat and all of it would have been worth it. 2 bad years for 6 good years plus 1 amazing year? Sign me up today.

That's a huge assumption, and truly undervalues what your orginal post was, which is "how hard it is to win a chip" and my post in that just learning how to win takes time. A

As i said, 10 years for 1 championship is not worth it. Especially when other small market teams aren't taking as long.

That is what I think a lot of people are missing. We just want a team with the CHANCE to win. Haven't had that since Iverson. Winning a chip is the obvious end goal but just being in the conversation is a hell of a lot better than what the Iggy era was (i.e hoping to perhaps scare a team, and a win a few games but never any championship aspirations). Just going into a season with legit title hopes would feel great.

So no, that would not be a failure. (that only happens when after the championship, Hinkie is unable to keep us there lol)

What ppl are missing is just how badly philly and their fan base want a title. The problem is that Philly is blaming the system as to why it has not won a title, and not the obvious, poor management decisions.

What Philly fans are missing is that you don't just draft 1 or 2 players that are damn talented and start winning. Especially youth. If Philly wins 1 title in 10 years, i don't think anyone's going to see it as a revolutionary way of building a champion but rather another route of many. If they build a dynasty however, it be hard to look at what Philly did and not say it worked or at least be considered

[wickedwrister]

The problem is that we haven't seen anything from the players they have drafted. "Red shirting" these guys the last 2 years is good for tanking but that also takes 1 full year off their rookie deals. That part hurts. The next thing you know, these guys will be due big extensions.

The bottom line is that we just don't know. They have more of a chance to become Minnesota than a dynasty.

Ya at what pont do they stop red shirting and start winning. Also how long is going to take them to learn how to win?

They stop red-shirting when they are healthy. Why rush a guy back to play on a team that isn't going anywhere. Also no time is coming off Saric's rookie deal.

As for the second question, people "learn to win" when they play on the better team. Gotta have talent to "learn to win." How did that veteran knowledge on the Knicks help that squad this year. Same for the Lakers with Boozer, Lin, Kobe and other vets? Pistons brought back Tayshaun Prince who knows how to win in Detroit, did he lead the Pistons on a miracle run teaching guys like KCP how to win and guide them to the playoffs?

[Ponchos]

Next year, the Sixers will have four No. 1 picks — their own, the Lakers’, the Thunder’s and the Heat’s. Even if only two of those four picks pan out to be great players, the core could include Noel, Embiid, Saric, Russell and at least two others.

The only one of those picks that isn't protected is Philly's own, so they *might* have anywhere from 1-4 picks. Sheridan is talking as though everything that can break right for Philly will do so.

Of course, that's the ceiling of the plan, and he has every right to believe that if he wants. (He may be right!) It could also all go wrong, and that's the floor of the plan. Nothing any of us can do except see how it plays out.

I'm not sure even if they get 4 picks in one draft that's necessarily great. If you're lucky and it's one of those legendary graft years (e.g. the Lebron class year). But even then you need multiple top 5 picks. You could always strike gold with other picks but I'm not sure one draft has enough talent to get more than 1 great player (if you're smart) out of 4 top 10 picks.

Philly doesn't need to get great players their 4 picks in next years draft. They need 2 out of Embiid, Noel, or Russell to be great, then they just need a few of their other draft picks to be good or good enough to be traded for proven vet players.

[Blkbrd671]

I don't know what the Sixers future holds, but I've been sold on Noel since he was in high school. His emergence surprises me not at all.

honestly when detroit was playing Philly, and noel caught the ball at the top of the key, i was like "let him have that sh* all day", then he made like 4 in row(or something liek that).................or don't let him have that.

never thought Noel would be that far along development wise and was a nice surprise

[MiltownHawkeye]

Not sure if you are serious, but I'll bite.

They didn't draft Beasley first off.

Rubio, Williams, Flynn, and Wesley Johnson are NOWHERE close to the prospects that Embiid, Russell, and Noel are.

According to whom?

When I look at NBADraft.net, Williams was a 99, Rubio a 97, Wesley Johnson a 97, Flynn a 94.

Embiid a 100, Russell a 98, Noel a 95.

So NBADraft.net believed they were roughly equal prospects.

Can you link me to an article that supports your statement?

Oh God.

According to just about every draft analyst with a brain.

Rubio was a more hyped prospect than Russell is. The fact you think he was NOWHERE CLOSE means you're revising history. Where do you think Russell would be going in this draft if he was guaranteed to be in Europe for the 2015-16 season, let alone spending the next two seasons overseas?

Just because Russell hasn't displayed any of his warts or potential shortcomings on an NBA court yet doesn't mean he's necessarily going to be better than all of those T-Wolves guys.

[kodo]

You can tank all you want and have the best scouts in the business, but at the end of the day there is one major factor that is 100% out of any GM's control and that's strength of the drafts.

I was in Seattle for the changing of the guard from Ray to KD, and Presti got very lucky in continuing the Seattle tank plan in 3 of the best draft years in recent history.

2007: Oden, Durant, Horford, Conley, Noah, etc..
2008: Rose, Westbrook, Love, Lopez, etc..
2009: Blake, Harden, Steph, etc..

If Presti had gotten 2, 4, 3 in the next 3 years we're looking at:
2010: Evan Turner
2011: Tristan Thompson
2012: Bradley Beal

Presti is an excellent GM and knows what he's doing, but he still got extremely lucky in tanking at possibly the strongest 3 year draft block in the past twenty years, if not ever. Draft quality usually fluctuates, it's almost impossible to have 3 can't-miss drafts in a row like we did back then.

Even the legendary 2003 draft was followed by 2004 where 2 of the top 3 were Emeka Okafor & Ben Gordon.

Hinkie may have done as much research as possible, but he can't control the talent level of kids in high school.

[Ponchos]

As i said, 10 years for 1 championship is not worth it. Especially when other small market teams aren't taking as long.

What? 10 years for 1 championship is great. It's somewhat ironic that your team (Pistons) has 3 championships in the last 30 years, which compared to most of the teams in the NBA is an unbelievable run of success.

[Blkbrd671]

They stop red-shirting when they are healthy. Why rush a guy back to play on a team that isn't going anywhere. Also no time is coming off Saric's rookie deal.

Noel was healthy at the end of the season, and they sat him 2 seasons ago. Wasn't Embid practicing with the team?

As for the second question, people "learn to win" when they play on the better team. Gotta have talent to "learn to win." How did that veteran knowledge on the Knicks help that squad this year. Same for the Lakers with Boozer, Lin, Kobe and other vets? Pistons brought back Tayshaun Prince who knows how to win in Detroit, did he lead the Pistons on a miracle run teaching guys like KCP how to win and guide them to the playoffs?

Your making my point, learning how to win takes time. Yet the impression i am getting here is that philly fans expect to be in the playoffs this year with 3 rookies...............??????

[Ponchos]

You can tank all you want and have the best scouts in the business, but at the end of the day there is one major factor that is 100% out of any GM's control and that's strength of the drafts.

I was in Seattle for the changing of the guard from Ray to KD, and Presti got very lucky in continuing the Seattle tank plan in 3 of the best draft years in recent history.

2007: Oden, Durant, Horford, Conley, Noah, etc..
2008: Rose, Westbrook, Love, Lopez, etc..
2009: Blake, Harden, Steph, etc..

If Presti had gotten 2, 4, 3 in the next 3 years we're looking at:
2010: Evan Turner
2011: Tristan Thompson
2012: Bradley Beal

Presti is an excellent GM and knows what he's doing, but he still got extremely lucky in tanking at possibly the strongest 3 year draft block in the past twenty years, if not ever. Draft quality usually fluctuates, it's almost impossible to have 3 can't-miss drafts in a row like we did back then.

Even the legendary 2003 draft was followed by 2004 where 2 of the top 3 were Emeka Okafor & Ben Gordon.

Hinkie may have done as much research as possible, but he can't control the talent level of kids in high school.

Presti wasn't afraid to reach for the player he liked. IIRC not many had Westbrook and Harden as high as he did. Does luck play into it? For sure. But you can't just assign him the same picks based on number. Hell, he might've picked Paul George, Klay Thompson in those "terrible" draft classes.

[Ponchos]

They stop red-shirting when they are healthy. Why rush a guy back to play on a team that isn't going anywhere. Also no time is coming off Saric's rookie deal.

Noel was healthy at the end of the season, and they sat him 2 seasons ago. Wasn't Embid practicing with the team?

As for the second question, people "learn to win" when they play on the better team. Gotta have talent to "learn to win." How did that veteran knowledge on the Knicks help that squad this year. Same for the Lakers with Boozer, Lin, Kobe and other vets? Pistons brought back Tayshaun Prince who knows how to win in Detroit, did he lead the Pistons on a miracle run teaching guys like KCP how to win and guide them to the playoffs?

Your making my point, learning how to win takes time. Yet the impression i am getting here is that philly fans expect to be in the playoffs this year with 3 rookies...............??????

Can you tell me how long it took KD to learn to win? In games or seasons please. What about LeBron? Or Wade? Or any very good player drafted to a crappy team.

[Blkbrd671]

As i said, 10 years for 1 championship is not worth it. Especially when other small market teams aren't taking as long.

What? 10 years for 1 championship is great. It's somewhat ironic that your team (Pistons) has 3 championships in the last 30 years, which compared to most of the teams in the NBA is an unbelievable run of success.

showing that it can be done within the 10 years, you just have to make good management decisions. As with Cleveland, you can have 3 #1 picks and completely f* absolutely sideways. luckily for them Bron was born in Ohio.

[Ponchos]

As i said, 10 years for 1 championship is not worth it. Especially when other small market teams aren't taking as long.

What? 10 years for 1 championship is great. It's somewhat ironic that your team (Pistons) has 3 championships in the last 30 years, which compared to most of the teams in the NBA is an unbelievable run of success.

showing that it can be done within the 10 years, you just have to make good management decisions. As with Cleveland, you can have 3 #1 picks and completely f* absolutely sideways. luckily for them Bron was born in Ohio.

So then Cleav's good management decision was having LeBron be born in Ohio?

[Blkbrd671]

Can you tell me how long it took KD to learn to win? In games or seasons please. What about LeBron? Or Wade? Or any very good player drafted to a crappy team.

whats your point?

are you stating you have KD, or a lebron or a wade on your team?

[iMoreland]

I'm gonna bump this thread in 10 years

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

They stop red-shirting when they are healthy. Why rush a guy back to play on a team that isn't going anywhere. Also no time is coming off Saric's rookie deal.

Just like Freeland and Splitter, Saric will be eligible for a contract larger than the rookie scale if he waits 3 years to enter the NBA. Not that it will be a max contract, but they will have to bid competitively against Euro teams.