The Hawks Have To Have A Shakeup Right?

[The_Ghost_of_JB]

Horford and Bazemore are gone. Should have traded Teague over the summer. Hawks going to have to rebuild.

Bazemore maybe. Hawks won't let Harford walk. They are going to offer him a max contract which will be around 25m a year for the next 4 or 5 years.

[TheDavinciCHODE]

Minny gives #5 pick, Bazz for Millsap. Hawks shed salary, get a young athletic wing stuck on the bench of a talented roster and get to have a top 5 pick. Wolves get good quick and Hawks rebuild moves along faster than expected

I don't think Millsap is a world beater, but think the Hawks are going to want a bit more than that, especially since they put so much stuck in being competitive all the time.

Millsap, in a very egalatarian offensive system is still getting 17/9 every night, and would easily be a 20/10 guy with a higher usg%.

His PER was over 21, and he shoots the 3 ball a better than average clip(this was a down year, though). Under this new cap he is going to be underpaid, and still has 2-3 years or so of his prime left. He could definitely be the 2nd best player on a really good team.

He'd be an awesome fit in Minny with Towns manning the middle and Rubio/vet sg/Wiggins/Millsap/Towns would be unstoppable.

This draft doesn't look really exciting outside of the top spot, and Shabazz doesn't project to ever be higher value than Millsap. Plus, as I said before, his salary is going to be low compared to the new cap, so the Hawks won't necessarily be looking to get out from his deal.

Teams like the Lakers, Celtics could offer more for him. Minny has got to sweeten the deal.

[jpengland]

Minny gives #5 pick, Bazz for Millsap. Hawks shed salary, get a young athletic wing stuck on the bench of a talented roster and get to have a top 5 pick. Wolves get good quick and Hawks rebuild moves along faster than expected

I don't think Millsap is a world beater, but think the Hawks are going to want a bit more than that, especially since they put so much stuck in being competitive all the time.

Millsap, in a very egalatarian offensive system is still getting 17/9 every night, and would easily be a 20/10 guy with a higher usg%.

His PER was over 21, and he shoots the 3 ball a better than average clip(this was a down year, though). Under this new cap he is going to be underpaid, and still has 2-3 years or so of his prime left. He could definitely be the 2nd best player on a really good team.

He'd be an awesome fit in Minny with Towns manning the middle and Rubio/vet sg/Wiggins/Millsap/Towns would be unstoppable.

This draft doesn't look really exciting outside of the top spot, and Shabazz doesn't project to ever be higher value than Millsap. Plus, as I said before, his salary is going to be low compared to the new cap, so the Hawks won't necessarily be looking to get out from his deal.

Teams like the Lakers, Celtics could offer more for him. Minny has got to sweeten the deal.

I agree the value may be a touch low, but at the same time - he's getting older and I don't know many teams are offering much more for him. Lakers are developing Randle and the Celtics will have targets much higher up on their list than Milsap and won't want to blow assets until they know they can't get them (they desperately need a C and a wing scorer).

[Nolan]

It's way too soon to pull the plug on this. They're finally starting to get fans into the seats and they've got a great coach who's shown that he's more than capable of turning other people's garbage into worthwhile pieces. They might need to retool a bit but they've got to keep pushing forward.

[NekiEcko]

Now that is a very good question about the Hawks should do next. Right now, we don't spend a lot on salary (was one of the lowest in the playoffs) and we got a decent player development system (Hawks University) but we are still on the outside looking in.

We don't have resources like the Cavs, C's and Heat and the Youth of the Raptors, Bucks or Magic. We want to have number one option internally but it is not Horford (King Ken might disagree), Teague, Dennis (he has the fire), Millsap or Korver.

Even know that many people would love Atlanta to get a superstar or Star-type player but Most Elite players stay away from Atlanta(I don't know why) and to get that person in a trade, you have to give up that core in return.

If this team stays together, there will be high possibility that they will have to face LeBron again in playoffs and this team will have that same issues as before and with the same result as well.

Even if you do rebuilding, it will atleast take two years to understand BudBall and I know that new owners and fans might not have the patience to wait.

But at the end of the day, this team doesn't need to rebuild unless Horford is signed away (have bird rights but he want to play PF like forever) but Horford is not a max contract at all. But here is what I do if I was in Coach Bud position

* Offer Horford a similar type of contract that Millsap signed (2 years, Player Option 1 year for 18 - 20 mil)
* Let Bazemore walk (there will be a team that will give him the max and he is not at the level yet)
* I will test the trade market with Teague and Dennis, the one that yields the greatest value gets traded.
* FIND A WING, FIND A WING, FIND A WING via FA, Trade, or Draft.
* Move Korver to the Bench
* If Horford does move on, then go after Dwight, Whiteside or any Centers that is a very good rebounder.
* Look for that superstar/Number 1 option.

Re-tool should work for Atlanta and rebuild if Horford and Bazemore does walk.

[0to100]

It is pretty clear that many people in this thread don't watch the Hawks and I could care less. But some of the statements here are pretty ridiculous. We actually had a shakeup when we let Josh Smith go and signed Millsap 2013 and last year we won 60 games. But now the new team is getting old and our main problem is that we don't have a superstar player. If we could sign a good SG/SF who has star potential or who can score in the playoffs when things get though we could actually matchup against Cleveland very well.

Who is that? Derozan? Not seeing anyone else available that you could be talking about. Maybe DWade?

Anyway, I agree that retooling is more probable, and what they have to offer would likely be Teague or Schroeder and there 1st round pick. Then hope that Splitter can come back healthy.

But what if Horford bolts? What if Bazemore bolts? They are both UFA's that will receive interest from a big handful of teams, the Hawks can't do anything about either of them bolting.

Teague and Schroeder are both going to be up for extension next offseason and it's incredibly unlikely that the Hawks would sign both point guards when they struggle playing together, and will both be commanding BIG deals. I think regardless it makes sense to move one of them and strengthen another position this offseason, especially if they lose Horford or Bazemore.

I was just generally speaking about why this team has underperformed. I haven't checked the FA market this summer but aren't Durant and Whiteside available? I know we would not get Durant even if it was possible. Anyway I think that a Whiteside/Millsap front court would be better in the playoffs.

Whiteside
Millsap
Korver
Bazemore
Schröder

Maybe trade Teague and the 1st round pick to a desperate team for a 1st round pick? I think that Korver might be done also. So maybe replace Korver with a 3+D type of player? Basically if Horford and Bazemore both decide to sign somewhere else then we should blow it up. Trade away Teague, Korver, Millsap and get a first round pick and let Schröder take over the team. It just seems pretty impossible to beat LeBron if your team is getting older and all of his teammates are just entering their primes.

[King Ken]

Horford is severely underrated by the common NBA fan just based on what he does that doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

Not interested in moving from our core. Only adding to it at this point.

Sap is a very good player. So is Al and Jeff. Dennis is growing and our best talent. We need to add to not take away. If there is a good deal to make, we should look at it but most of what is being discussed is nothing half way entertaining.

Trading Millsap isn't ideal.
Trading Jeff or Dennis isn't either if the value is not there.

We have 17 million in cap space with our 21st pick being included. We have a good backup center returning from injury who played smart and heady defense for us. We like this team but love it might be pushing it. Bud and Wilcox loves it but most of the fans like or hate it. Usually the hate is by guys who just want a superstar at all cost.

We have a very good future but we don't have a great future. Ask me if I feel better about this team then the year before we went 60-22, I will say hell yeah, so I will just like the GM do his job.

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[NekiEcko]

Horford is severely underrated by the common NBA fan just based on what he does that doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

Not interested in moving from our core. Only adding to it at this point.

Sap is a very good player. So is Al and Jeff. Dennis is growing and our best talent. We need to add to not take away. If there is a good deal to make, we should look at it but most of what is being discussed is nothing half way entertaining.

Trading Millsap isn't ideal.
Trading Jeff or Dennis isn't either if the value is not there.

We have 17 million in cap space with our 21st pick being included. We have a good backup center returning from injury who played smart and heady defense for us. We like this team but love it might be pushing it. Bud and Wilcox loves it but most of the fans like or hate it. Usually the hate is by guys who just want a superstar at all cost.

We have a very good future but we don't have a great future. Ask me if I feel better about this team then the year before we went 60-22, I will say hell yeah, so I will just like the GM do his job.

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So in other words, just stay the same and get beat by the likes of Cleveland or Toronto in the playoffs. I totally agreed with you assessments but right now, this core needs to change in a way that we can deal with Cavs, Raptors and Pistons in the future. The way we are right now, we will drummed again.

[Rafael122]

I'd trade Teague to Utah, possibly for their first round pick. That's a move both teams should have made this past trade deadline. Give the reigns to Schroeder, he's ready.

After that, I have no idea. I wouldn't pay Horford $20 mil a year. The team as currently constructed can't get past the second round so why bring everyone back together?

[SF_Warriors]

They made a mistake by giving Milsap a 20 mill per year deal.

29 other teams would be willing to fix that "mistake" and give up assets to make it happen.

Would you give brandon bass 20 mill per year because that is who Milsap plays like. Check out the stats, defensive and offensive ratings.

I don't want to be that guy, and you are probably the only person here that feels this way, but this is an incredibly poor comparison.
And especially after you said to compare the stats, and when you do, millsap is superior in nearly every aspect.

Both guys are undersized and both being pretty good mid range shooters, that is where the comparison ends...

What bass does better:
Bass is the better mid range shooter, but millsap has more range.

What Millsap does better:

Offense- he has a much better face up game and can actually get to the basket.
Per 36, Bass gets to the line less than MIllsap does in 32.7minutes.
Bass' career high ppg per 36 is 16.2 ppg. Millsap has eclipsed that number the past 6 seasons. And I am not even talking about per 36 here..
Sap is a much better passer as well. Bass has never put up over 2 apg per 36..
He has been shooting more threes which is why his overall fg% has been down, but his career FG% is still higher than Bass'.

Defense and rebounding-
Millsap is incrediibly underrated on defense. He is a superior rebounder and shot blocker.
Per 36 the last 7 seasons, bass isnt even averaging 8 rebounds a game and has never averaged one block a game.
Bass has never averaged over a steal per game per 36. Millsap last yr 1.8 steals in 32.7 minutes.

So basically, millsap is a better scorer, has a better handle, is a better passer, rebounder, defender, shot blocker, more steals, more range.
Millsap averaged 17 & 9 last season. Bass has never averaged that even with per 36 stats.

So you are comparing an all star caliber player to a role player and saying they are similiar? Ugh.

[spacemonkey]

I think continuity is severely underrated in basketball. I actually have no idea about the statistics, but I'd be willing to bet for every 08 Celtics there's a champion with 1+ year of continuity.

Keep the core together, do something with the new cap room to add to it. Personally, the wings are the weakest spots to me. Korver's got great gravity, so he's probably the least expendable of the two.

[King Ken]

Need a star who can win a game they just have none

Yes the Hawks have too many players on that borderline all-star level. They're a great regular season team, but in the playoffs they seem to lack that one player to give them the edge against big teams like the Cavs.

Sap and Horford are legit all stars. Teague is a all star talent. Dennis has all star talent. We just don't have any stars or superstars. "That dude" as they say. Cleveland has two of them. OKC has two. SAS has two. GS has maybe three. We don't have one. That's a problem.

We need to find a way to get that dude.

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[Rafael122]

I think continuity is severely underrated in basketball. I actually have no idea about the statistics, but I'd be willing to bet for every 08 Celtics there's a champion with 1+ year of continuity.

Keep the core together, do something with the new cap room to add to it. Personally, the wings are the weakest spots to me. Korver's got great gravity, so he's probably the least expendable of the two.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again. Soo....it's not that people underrate Al Horford, it's the fact that they have gotten swept back to back years by Cleveland. So why bring back the same core? Especially an aging one?

[King Ken]

Horford is severely underrated by the common NBA fan just based on what he does that doesn't show up on the stat sheet.

Not interested in moving from our core. Only adding to it at this point.

Sap is a very good player. So is Al and Jeff. Dennis is growing and our best talent. We need to add to not take away. If there is a good deal to make, we should look at it but most of what is being discussed is nothing half way entertaining.

Trading Millsap isn't ideal.
Trading Jeff or Dennis isn't either if the value is not there.

We have 17 million in cap space with our 21st pick being included. We have a good backup center returning from injury who played smart and heady defense for us. We like this team but love it might be pushing it. Bud and Wilcox loves it but most of the fans like or hate it. Usually the hate is by guys who just want a superstar at all cost.

We have a very good future but we don't have a great future. Ask me if I feel better about this team then the year before we went 60-22, I will say hell yeah, so I will just like the GM do his job.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

So in other words, just stay the same and get beat by the likes of Cleveland or Toronto in the playoffs. I totally agreed with you assessments but right now, this core needs to change in a way that we can deal with Cavs, Raptors and Pistons in the future. The way we are right now, we will drummed again.

Why the hell would Atlanta do this? Like I said, we are in the business of getting better, not in the business of being stupid. We aren't trading Teague or Dennis for less than a quality return. If that team doesn't have to think twice about the trade, it is a hell no from us.

Utah called during the season. We told them Burke, Hood and their pick and they declined. If they called June 26th, it will be the same want from Atlanta. Very good players aren't free in this league. Heck, decent players are costly. Look what Washington got for Morris or New York for Hardaway Jr and if you asked them teams would they still do the deal, they will be like hell yeah. That NBA 2k/Madden mindset is great for video games but awful in real life. That's why Hinkie is no longer employed and will he damned to find another team who will hire him in leadership again.

I had Madden, you could draft a 5th round OT and he would be a 99 in year 6. That's works in video games.

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[SF_Warriors]

Look, horford and millsap are not the problem.
Together, they form one of the best frontcourts in the nba, even if they are a bit undersized.


Their wing situation is their main issue:
Korver is 35 and he has never been much more than a spot up shooter even in his prime. Decent passer and rebounder but nothing worth noting.

Bazemore is incredibly undersized as a starting small forward. He is 6'5 at best and does not have the build nor good enough athleticism to make up for it.

Thabo is a nice bench player, but he is not going to make up for the starters' lack of speed, athleticism, playmaking, and size that many of today's nba small forwards have.

IMO, they need to trade one of their pgs, and upgrade on the wings.
They sign a guy like batum, parsons, or derozan and they are back in business.
Seriously, if they somehow can sign durant w/out losing sap, horford, and keep one of teague/shroeder, they could compete for a championship.

Just for fun:
Teague and/or Schroeder
Korver/Thabo
Durant
Millsap
Horford/splitter

I think that squad could contend with the current day cavs

[0to100]

Horford averaged 3.5 rebounds in 32 minutes against Cleveland. We need to get a Whiteside ASAP

[NinjaBro]

Horford averaged 3.5 rebounds in 32 minutes against Cleveland. We need to get a Whiteside ASAP

Whiteside hasn't looked good in the playoffs this year. He's been destroyed in both series by the other team's bigs and now has a sprained MCL. You guys may want to reconsider giving Whiteside the max.

[tbennett5438]

Trade Teague,
Could signing Marvin Williams help with defending the wings?

[Yankeeknickfan]

The Hawks are basically Jazz of the East. They play an antiquated style that was played in 2009 by the Carlos Boozer and Deron teams and they have the same results of getting owned every year.

Hawks are much better than those Jazz. Jazz are more like the 2000's Bucks

[TheAlchemist]

If they do, please hook up Milsap to the next ATL lol.