Bucks Trade Miles Plumlee For Roy Hibbert & Spencer Hawes

[Chuck Everett]

Rich Cho just helped the Bucks balance their books financially. So ridiculous.

[GoBobs]

horrible trade..... wtf mj

[masgi]

I don't get why everyone hates Plumlee so much? When he receives playing time, he's pretty productive for a backup big. 13m for a backup center is the new normal, get used to it. And considering the Hornets wouldn't be able to sign anyone anytime soon being capped out, they did well here in sending away two has-beens for someone who still has a shot at producing in the future.

$13 million for a backup Center in a league where teams are playing bigs less and less minutes all the time is not the new normal. $13 million over 4 years for a 3rd string Center is simply one of the 3-4 worst contracts in the league.

You should be rejoicing today if you're a bucks fan

He fits in extremely well to how Charlotte plays. Ton of arc PnRs which Plumlee is actually very good/active on. Compared to Hawes and Hibbert, this is a straight up upgrade for the Hornets based on the basketball being played NOW, not the future, not the past, not on a random other team. You're thinking of the NBA as some sort of video game simulation. Different teams have different styles and different personalities/play styles fit better than others. When Plumlee has been given playing time, he has done reasonably well. Clearly the Bucks made a bad decision to sign him, because their playstyle doesn't fit at all with what he does. Even last year he had a 17.4 PER playing for the same team, which played a completely different way than they currently do. Plumlee's most successful season he was setting screens for Dragic and Bledsoe, who on MIL is comparable to either of those dudes? I'll tell ya who IS comparable, and that's Kemba.

The market says backup centers are worth 13m. That's not an opinion, that's just what they get, when realizing 95% of all FA signings are overpays due to teams competing with each other. His stats this year don't justify his contract, sure, but last year they certainly did, not to mention Kidd gives him literally less than 10 mins/game.

Bottom line is this helped both teams. CHA is trying to get to the post season, and we sure as hell know Hawes and Hibbert are washed up and don't fit their style. MIL wanted cap relief, because they already have their two studs now, coupled with a returning Middleton, and have gone that direction, leaving Plumlee without any role.

[The_Hater]

I don't get why everyone hates Plumlee so much? When he receives playing time, he's pretty productive for a backup big. 13m for a backup center is the new normal, get used to it. And considering the Hornets wouldn't be able to sign anyone anytime soon being capped out, they did well here in sending away two has-beens for someone who still has a shot at producing in the future.

$13 million for a backup Center in a league where teams are playing bigs less and less minutes all the time is not the new normal. $13 million over 4 years for a 3rd string Center is simply one of the 3-4 worst contracts in the league.

You should be rejoicing today if you're a bucks fan

He fits in extremely well to how Charlotte plays. Ton of arc PnRs which Plumlee is actually very good/active on. Compared to Hawes and Hibbert, this is a straight up upgrade for the Hornets based on the basketball being played NOW, not the future, not the past, not on a random other team. You're thinking of the NBA as some sort of video game simulation. Different teams have different styles and different personalities/play styles fit better than others. When Plumlee has been given playing time, he has done reasonably well. Clearly the Bucks made a bad decision to sign him, because their playstyle doesn't fit at all with what he does. Even last year he had a 17.4 PER playing for the same team, which played a completely different way than they currently do. Plumlee's most successful season he was setting screens for Dragic and Bledsoe, who on MIL is comparable to either of those dudes? I'll tell ya who IS comparable, and that's Kemba.

The market says backup centers are worth 13m. That's not an opinion, that's just what they get, when realizing 95% of all FA signings are overpays due to teams competing with each other. His stats this year don't justify his contract, sure, but last year they certainly did, not to mention Kidd gives him literally less than 10 mins/game.

Bottom line is this helped both teams. CHA is trying to get to the post season, and we sure as hell know Hawes and Hibbert are washed up and don't fit their style. MIL wanted cap relief, because they already have their two studs now, coupled with a returning Middleton, and have gone that direction, leaving Plumlee without any role.

Even if he fits well for Charlotte, they should have been able to get a lot more out of Milwaukee just for taking on the contract. NBA trade school 101.

This trade is terrible for Charlotte and no amount of spin will change that. Marginal player, bad contract. And he'll be a 15 mpg backup at best. And what's their goal? The 7-8 seed? That's nice that his PER was a career high 17.4 last season but let's not pretend the 8.0 he's posting this season doesn't exist. Rebounding, blocks and FG% are all down significantly.

[Pachinko_]

I don't know what is crazier; Miles Plumlee tricking someone into believing he is worth $50 million or after averaging an 8.0 PER and getting benched in favor of Henson that someone thought he was worth the remaining 3 years and 37.5 million.

Are fans just that far off on their valuation of Miles Plumlee?

nope we're not
I know Euroleague teams that would cut him, he is that bad

[baldur]

John Henson
Thon maker
Teletovic
Hawes
Hibbert
Monroe
Beasley.

It is not so reasonable for bucks either.

[Kurosawa0]

Can't believe Charlotte didn't at least get a 2nd back.

[masgi]

$13 million for a backup Center in a league where teams are playing bigs less and less minutes all the time is not the new normal. $13 million over 4 years for a 3rd string Center is simply one of the 3-4 worst contracts in the league.

You should be rejoicing today if you're a bucks fan

He fits in extremely well to how Charlotte plays. Ton of arc PnRs which Plumlee is actually very good/active on. Compared to Hawes and Hibbert, this is a straight up upgrade for the Hornets based on the basketball being played NOW, not the future, not the past, not on a random other team. You're thinking of the NBA as some sort of video game simulation. Different teams have different styles and different personalities/play styles fit better than others. When Plumlee has been given playing time, he has done reasonably well. Clearly the Bucks made a bad decision to sign him, because their playstyle doesn't fit at all with what he does. Even last year he had a 17.4 PER playing for the same team, which played a completely different way than they currently do. Plumlee's most successful season he was setting screens for Dragic and Bledsoe, who on MIL is comparable to either of those dudes? I'll tell ya who IS comparable, and that's Kemba.

The market says backup centers are worth 13m. That's not an opinion, that's just what they get, when realizing 95% of all FA signings are overpays due to teams competing with each other. His stats this year don't justify his contract, sure, but last year they certainly did, not to mention Kidd gives him literally less than 10 mins/game.

Bottom line is this helped both teams. CHA is trying to get to the post season, and we sure as hell know Hawes and Hibbert are washed up and don't fit their style. MIL wanted cap relief, because they already have their two studs now, coupled with a returning Middleton, and have gone that direction, leaving Plumlee without any role.

Even if he fits well for Charlotte, they should have been able to get a lot more out of Milwaukee just for taking on the contract. NBA trade school 101.

This trade is terrible for Charlotte and no amount of spin will change that. Marginal player, bad contract. And he'll be a 15 mpg backup at best. And what's their goal? The 7-8 seed? That's nice that his PER was a career high 17.4 last season but let's not pretend the 8.0 he's posting this season doesn't exist. Rebounding, blocks and FG% are all down significantly.

Numbers are down while playing significantly less and sporadic minutes, with DNPs sprinkled in as well. Yes their goal is the 7-8 seed. More playoff games = more fan interest = more money = better players down the road that may actually want to sign in CHA, where they've never had success attracting anyone. They were close to the cap, meaning they would have had minimal room to sign any FAs at all. Acquiring Plumlee, they go OVER the cap, which makes them eligible for a full MLE, which is extremely important. Cho has been on record saying he wanted to sign Plumlee BEFORE Milwaukee got him, so clearly he has done the necessary scouting and evaluating here. Why don't you sit back and see what happens, rather than just throw out more reactionary superlatives?

[Prez]

Very nice upgrade for the Hornets.

JKidd continues to be an idiot.

--Mags

Wait what?

This:

Do you realize the other two are backup bums (at best) these days?!

Unless you're paying the contact, people need to stop always prioritizing salary. Yes, he's making a lot. But Kidd is an idiot. He gave big contracts to BOTH Monroe and Plumlee, then proceeds to hardly play them and tank their value.

This move helps (even if just a little) to solidify their playoff push. With the East so tight, they could use it.

It's the little moves that sometimes have a bigger impact.

--Mags

It's like the Noah contract. If people ignore the first obvious caveat of his contract, they'd see he actually produces almost 5 PPG, 9 RPG and 3 APG in JUST about 22 MPG. Yes contracts matter for Cap and FA purposes, but in reality most marquee FAs don't consider Charlotte. Most of the big players on their current Roster have either been Drafted or Traded for.

They might as well secure that Playoff spot while losing relatively little talent in the process.

Bucks indeed do shed $$$ (props btw ), but Kidd created that situation for them (as I alluded to above.

--Mags

I don't think you quite understand how hilariously bad Plumlee's deal is. It was almost universally acknowledged as one of the very worst deals in the league even when it was signed and has proven to be just as bad or worse than that during the season.

This trade single handedly gives us back financial flexibility, particularly to re-sign Tony Snell who believe it or not has been a very pleasant surprise for us. If we're able to make a similar trade with Henson for expirings and Moose opts out, we're looking at like 27-30 mil of cap space.

This trade was a dream scenario for the Bucks. Henson is tradable, Moose is as well. But Plumlee was the guy thought to be unmovable and they pulled it off. They're now in position to completely change their cap situation for the better.

[Baddy Chuck]

John Henson
Thon maker
Teletovic
Hawes
Hibbert
Monroe
Beasley.

It is not so reasonable for bucks either.

$40 million

Maybe $6 million

Yeah, not very reasonable.......

[tcheco]

How in the world did the Bucks signed :
Monroe - Center - 3 years - 51M
Plumlee - Center - 4 years - 50M
Henson - C/PF - 4 years - 48M
Mirza - PF - 3 years - 31M

ALL OF THIS IN 2 YEARS, all of them are being traded for cap space(ok, Monroe could fetch some 2nds)
That's 52M per year between some useless guys.

HOW IN THE WORLD NO ONE WAS FIRED

[hege53190]

How in the world did the Bucks signed :
Monroe - Center - 3 years - 51M
Plumlee - Center - 4 years - 50M
Henson - C/PF - 4 years - 48M
Mirza - PF - 3 years - 31M

ALL OF THIS IN 2 YEARS, all of them are being traded for cap space(ok, Monroe could fetch some 2nds)
That's 52M per year between some useless guys.

HOW IN THE WORLD NO ONE WAS FIRED

Hammond is like a cockroach.... Nuclear war could wipe out human existence and the only one to survive would be Hammond.

This is Hammond's 9th season as general manager. In those 9 seasons the Bucks have been over .500 once. They are currently on a 7 season streak of finishing below .500 that probably won't be broken this year.

In the span of 2 year they have traded a first for Greivis Vasquez; took Michael Carter Williams over the Lakers pick this year; traded Zaza, Ersan, and Dudley for nothing; and signed Henson, Monroe, Plumlee, Mirza, and Deledova to a total of $215 million worth of contracts.

Oh and he also was telling everyone that our 23 year old draft pick was 19. That was my favorite part. They couldn't figure out with all their resources what it took a message board a half of a day to crack. This is our front office.

[meekrab]

It's like the Noah contract. If people ignore the first obvious caveat of his contract, they'd see he actually produces almost 5 PPG, 9 RPG and 3 APG in JUST about 22 MPG. Yes contracts matter for Cap and FA purposes, but in reality most marquee FAs don't consider Charlotte. Most of the big players on their current Roster have either been Drafted or Traded for.

They might as well secure that Playoff spot while losing relatively little talent in the process.

Bucks indeed do shed $$$ (props btw ), but Kidd created that situation for them (as I alluded to above.

--Mags

ALMOST 5 ppg! And his TS% isn't so bad if you're trying to tank for a good pick!

[tcheco]

How in the world did the Bucks signed :
Monroe - Center - 3 years - 51M
Plumlee - Center - 4 years - 50M
Henson - C/PF - 4 years - 48M
Mirza - PF - 3 years - 31M

ALL OF THIS IN 2 YEARS, all of them are being traded for cap space(ok, Monroe could fetch some 2nds)
That's 52M per year between some useless guys.

HOW IN THE WORLD NO ONE WAS FIRED

Hammond is like a cockroach.... Nuclear war could wipe out human existence and the only one to survive would be Hammond.

This is Hammond's 9th season as general manager. In those 9 seasons the Bucks have been over .500 once. They are currently on a 7 season streak of finishing below .500 that probably won't be broken this year.

In the span of 2 year they have traded a first for Greivis Vasquez; took Michael Carter Williams over the Lakers pick this year; traded Zaza, Ersan, and Dudley for nothing; and signed Henson, Monroe, Plumlee, Mirza, and Deledova to a total of $215 million worth of contracts.

Oh and he also was telling everyone that our 23 year old draft pick was 19. That was my favorite part. They couldn't figure out with all their resources what it took a message board a half of a day to crack. This is our front office.

God, I'm so sorry for you guys. Loved the bucks with healthy Bogut(before that elbow injury) he was a beast, but the rest of the roster was so terribly constructed...

[Alonzo_Morning]

How in the world did the Bucks signed :
Monroe - Center - 3 years - 51M
Plumlee - Center - 4 years - 50M
Henson - C/PF - 4 years - 48M
Mirza - PF - 3 years - 31M

ALL OF THIS IN 2 YEARS, all of them are being traded for cap space(ok, Monroe could fetch some 2nds)
That's 52M per year between some useless guys.

HOW IN THE WORLD NO ONE WAS FIRED

Hammond is like a cockroach.... Nuclear war could wipe out human existence and the only one to survive would be Hammond.

This is Hammond's 9th season as general manager. In those 9 seasons the Bucks have been over .500 once. They are currently on a 7 season streak of finishing below .500 that probably won't be broken this year.

In the span of 2 year they have traded a first for Greivis Vasquez; took Michael Carter Williams over the Lakers pick this year; traded Zaza, Ersan, and Dudley for nothing; and signed Henson, Monroe, Plumlee, Mirza, and Deledova to a total of $215 million worth of contracts.

Can you explain the one in bold?

[bigpimpatl]

If Miles fits in well, his contact will bump us in to MLE territory next summer (newly increased next summer to just over $8M) so actually prevents us from having to dump assets to create cap space, so it's not just a $ for $ reduction in cap space.

I don't understand this bit. What do you mean "dump assets to create cap space?"

Next summer CHA had somewhere in the neighborhood of $96M in salary obligations, depending on whether Hawes exercised his PO. He's been terrible and is unlikely to have the opportunity to salvage that value as a third string big, so if we wanted to create more than the $6M in space we would have if he exercised his PO then we would have to make a move to clear it, since we'd be under the cap and wouldn't have the MLE. We tried packaging him and our pick last summer before the draft to clear space, and no one would do it.

With this move, we get a better fit at backup C and with the MLE still have more cap space than we would have had if we had just stayed put.

Thanks. TBH I think Charlotte got the better deal not just because of the above but I felt hibbert and hawes were more spare parts. To consolidate that into one player who, unless he's fallen off considerably from last season, should be better than them is good value. The Bucks just wanted to get out of his deal, so basically admitting a mistake.

[willywazza]

Brain. Cannot. Compute.

[hege53190]

How in the world did the Bucks signed :
Monroe - Center - 3 years - 51M
Plumlee - Center - 4 years - 50M
Henson - C/PF - 4 years - 48M
Mirza - PF - 3 years - 31M

ALL OF THIS IN 2 YEARS, all of them are being traded for cap space(ok, Monroe could fetch some 2nds)
That's 52M per year between some useless guys.

HOW IN THE WORLD NO ONE WAS FIRED

Hammond is like a cockroach.... Nuclear war could wipe out human existence and the only one to survive would be Hammond.

This is Hammond's 9th season as general manager. In those 9 seasons the Bucks have been over .500 once. They are currently on a 7 season streak of finishing below .500 that probably won't be broken this year.

In the span of 2 year they have traded a first for Greivis Vasquez; took Michael Carter Williams over the Lakers pick this year; traded Zaza, Ersan, and Dudley for nothing; and signed Henson, Monroe, Plumlee, Mirza, and Deledova to a total of $215 million worth of contracts.

Can you explain the one in bold?

Bucks traded Brandon Knight to Phoenix for Received MCW, Tyler Enis and Miles Plumlee

Phoenix traded Plumlee, Enis, Lakers pick received Brandon Knight

76ers traded MCW Received Lakers pick

The only thing the 76ers traded or received was the Lakers pick for MCW. I am sure Milwaukee could have easily cut out the 76ers and Phoenix still does the deal. For whatever reason the Bucks thought MCW was a decent player.

[SkyHookFTW]

Hinkie laughs at this trade. Immediately sends out job application to Charlotte...

[hege53190]

How in the world did the Bucks signed :
Monroe - Center - 3 years - 51M
Plumlee - Center - 4 years - 50M
Henson - C/PF - 4 years - 48M
Mirza - PF - 3 years - 31M

ALL OF THIS IN 2 YEARS, all of them are being traded for cap space(ok, Monroe could fetch some 2nds)
That's 52M per year between some useless guys.

HOW IN THE WORLD NO ONE WAS FIRED

Hammond is like a cockroach.... Nuclear war could wipe out human existence and the only one to survive would be Hammond.

This is Hammond's 9th season as general manager. In those 9 seasons the Bucks have been over .500 once. They are currently on a 7 season streak of finishing below .500 that probably won't be broken this year.

In the span of 2 year they have traded a first for Greivis Vasquez; took Michael Carter Williams over the Lakers pick this year; traded Zaza, Ersan, and Dudley for nothing; and signed Henson, Monroe, Plumlee, Mirza, and Deledova to a total of $215 million worth of contracts.

Oh and he also was telling everyone that our 23 year old draft pick was 19. That was my favorite part. They couldn't figure out with all their resources what it took a message board a half of a day to crack. This is our front office.

God, I'm so sorry for you guys. Loved the bucks with healthy Bogut(before that elbow injury) he was a beast, but the rest of the roster was so terribly constructed...

The weird thing is a year and a half prior to that he drafted Giannis 15, traded Jennings for Middleton and Knight, and didn't **** up the Parker pick.

In his 9 year stretch he had one phenomenal 12 month stretch so we have a decent core with Giannis, Middleton, and Jabari. The problem is Hammond doesn't know how to build a team around those 3.