How Much Do You Appreciate KD Now on the Warriors

[Danny1616]

Chris Bosh wasn't a superstar. You had two superstars, one all star and a bunch of below replacement level players. This is a major false equivalence.

Chris Bosh is an 11 time all-star, who had been 2nd team All-NBA the season before joining Miami.

He wasn't just an all star, he was legit top-12 player. He was a tier above the current Draymond Green, Klay Thompson tier.

No. You are factually incorrect. He wasn't a 2nd team All NBA player the season before joining Miami. Nor the year before that. Nor the year before that. He was a guy who put up empty stats on a team that didn't even make the playoffs (in the "weak" east) the two years before he joined the Heat and he was a fringe All-Star that made funny commercials trying to get named to the ASG.

Draymond was a top 2 RPM player the year before KD joined the Warriors. He has been DPoY or runner up the last 3 years and has twice as many All NBA selections as Bosh. If not for Steph, Klay would have two of the three most prolific 3 pt shooting seasons in NBA history and is a near ideal running mate to put around players that can attack a defense.

Its too bad Bosh had the clot issues he did because he would be a near ideal stretch 5 in today's game. But back in the Heat days he got BEAT the **** up and played more 4 than 5, thereby negatively impacting his value.

Chris Bosh was a great player before joining the Heat, there is no question about it.

He made the 2nd all NBA team in 2007 and should have made it again in the 2009-2010 season but he got hurt. The Raptors were in 5th place that season and Bosh fractured a bone in his face and missed a bunch of games. The raptors fell to 9th place and did not make the playoffs, and only won 40 games.

Raptors did make the playoffs in 2007 and 2008 with Bosh as the focal point. His second best player was Jose Calderon.

In his final year in Toronto he put up 24ppg, 11rpg, 1 blk on 52% shooting from the field and 36% from 3.

The top players in terms of efficiency in the 2009-2010 season were:

1) Lebron
2) Wade
3) Durant
4) Bosh
5) Tim Duncan
6) Chris Paul

And you are telling me he wasn't better then Draymond Green? Lebron picked a team with 3 out of the 4 most efficient players in the league.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2010_leaders.html

[HurricaneKid]

Chris Bosh is an 11 time all-star, who had been 2nd team All-NBA the season before joining Miami.

He wasn't just an all star, he was legit top-12 player. He was a tier above the current Draymond Green, Klay Thompson tier.

No. You are factually incorrect. He wasn't a 2nd team All NBA player the season before joining Miami. Nor the year before that. Nor the year before that. He was a guy who put up empty stats on a team that didn't even make the playoffs (in the "weak" east) the two years before he joined the Heat and he was a fringe All-Star that made funny commercials trying to get named to the ASG.

Draymond was a top 2 RPM player the year before KD joined the Warriors. He has been DPoY or runner up the last 3 years and has twice as many All NBA selections as Bosh. If not for Steph, Klay would have two of the three most prolific 3 pt shooting seasons in NBA history and is a near ideal running mate to put around players that can attack a defense.

Its too bad Bosh had the clot issues he did because he would be a near ideal stretch 5 in today's game. But back in the Heat days he got BEAT the **** up and played more 4 than 5, thereby negatively impacting his value.

Chris Bosh was a great player before joining the Heat, there is no question about it.

He made the 2nd all NBA team in 2007 and should have made it again in the 2009-2010 season but he got hurt. The Raptors were in 5th place that season and Bosh fractured a bone in his face and missed a bunch of games. The raptors fell to 9th place and did not make the playoffs, and only won 40 games.

Raptors did make the playoffs in 2007 and 2008 with Bosh as the focal point. His second best player was Jose Calderon.

In his final year in Toronto he put up 24ppg, 11rpg, 1 blk on 52% shooting from the field and 36% from 3.

He played the last 17 games for Toronto as they went 6-11 and missed the playoffs by 1 game. LOL @ All NBA. He only missed 12 games on the season and couldn't hold it together. Good player. Top 30ish. At best. Great? Not a chance.

The season before that they won 33 games. The season before that they were 41-41. The season before that, back in 07, a full 4 years before he joined the Heat, was definitively his best season. His only All NBA season of his HoF career. And LOL at Calderon, with 11 starts and 7th on the team in min and 8th in pts/36 at being his second best player.

And LOL @ 36% from 3. He made 8 3s on the SEASON.

[and1GS]

I'm hard.

Whoa...

[NZB2323]

He's proven that he's better than Harrison Barnes. Putting up great numbers when get easy looks by joining a team that won 73 games with ball movement and pace and space isn't that impressive.

I was more impressed with him being up 3-1 against the Warriors than anything he's done since.

[Sasashi]

KD has been a top 5 nba player for the last 8-9 years now but I will say now what I said then, he ruined his own legacy by joining a 73 win warriors team. He could have and should have beat the warrriors in 2016, but he decided to take the easy way out.

I have nothing against him, but NBA fans / former nba palyers everywhere will never give him full credit for his 2 rings. It doesn't matter if he wins the next 3 championships, either. It's a shame because I really felt with a little tinkering the old OKC core could have won it all.

You tell me who is a better player? Isiah Thomas (pistons) or Kevin Durant? close call but I take KD...
Now tell me who has a better NBA legacy'??

KD is the better player compared to Isiah Thomas, has equal the number of championships, has beaten Lebron 2 years in a row arguably the best ever player but their legacies after 10 years in the NBA do not even compare....it's not on the same level at all. It was all due to his decision to move to the GSW.

[Danny1616]

No. You are factually incorrect. He wasn't a 2nd team All NBA player the season before joining Miami. Nor the year before that. Nor the year before that. He was a guy who put up empty stats on a team that didn't even make the playoffs (in the "weak" east) the two years before he joined the Heat and he was a fringe All-Star that made funny commercials trying to get named to the ASG.

Draymond was a top 2 RPM player the year before KD joined the Warriors. He has been DPoY or runner up the last 3 years and has twice as many All NBA selections as Bosh. If not for Steph, Klay would have two of the three most prolific 3 pt shooting seasons in NBA history and is a near ideal running mate to put around players that can attack a defense.

Its too bad Bosh had the clot issues he did because he would be a near ideal stretch 5 in today's game. But back in the Heat days he got BEAT the **** up and played more 4 than 5, thereby negatively impacting his value.

Chris Bosh was a great player before joining the Heat, there is no question about it.

He made the 2nd all NBA team in 2007 and should have made it again in the 2009-2010 season but he got hurt. The Raptors were in 5th place that season and Bosh fractured a bone in his face and missed a bunch of games. The raptors fell to 9th place and did not make the playoffs, and only won 40 games.

Raptors did make the playoffs in 2007 and 2008 with Bosh as the focal point. His second best player was Jose Calderon.

In his final year in Toronto he put up 24ppg, 11rpg, 1 blk on 52% shooting from the field and 36% from 3.

He played the last 17 games for Toronto as they went 6-11 and missed the playoffs by 1 game. LOL @ All NBA. He only missed 12 games on the season and couldn't hold it together. Good player. Top 30ish. At best. Great? Not a chance.

The season before that they won 33 games. The season before that they were 41-41. The season before that, back in 07, a full 4 years before he joined the Heat, was definitively his best season. His only All NBA season of his HoF career. And LOL at Calderon, with 11 starts and 7th on the team in min and 8th in pts/36 at being his second best player.

And LOL @ 36% from 3. He made 8 3s on the SEASON.

I meant during his tenure with Toronto his second best player was Calderon. Calderon started nearly every game in the 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 seasons.

Okay so who was his second best player that season? Bargnani? Turkoglu? Jarrett Jack?

It's not easy to lead a team when you are the sole all-star and have a weak supporting cast. You need at least another solid all-star or fringe all-star piece to compete at a good level.

Come on, dude...did you even watch that season?

Raptors were 29-24 when Bosh got hurt and they proceeded to go 2-10 in their next 12 games falling to 32-33. I don't know if you are a Raptors fan but everyone acknowledges that 2009-2010 was his best season. He was in that contract year and was an absolute beast. Tough on the boards, a good shot blocker, solid defender, and probably the most skilled mid-range big man in the game at the time.

You look at every advanced stat, every metric, regular stats and Bosh was a superstar player that season and the Raptors were on pace to win 45-50 games.

Wade was in Miami all by himself playing at MVP level and could only lead the Heat to 43 and 47 wins in the 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 seasons.

I don't think anyone disputes Anthony Davis being the best big man in the league but even his team's have struggled with no one.

Last year the Pelicans won 34 games and the year before they won 30. His best year until he finally got some help was 45 wins. So should I penalize AD for having no one?

[C3H6N6O6]

Chris Bosh was a great player before joining the Heat, there is no question about it.

He made the 2nd all NBA team in 2007 and should have made it again in the 2009-2010 season but he got hurt. The Raptors were in 5th place that season and Bosh fractured a bone in his face and missed a bunch of games. The raptors fell to 9th place and did not make the playoffs, and only won 40 games.

Raptors did make the playoffs in 2007 and 2008 with Bosh as the focal point. His second best player was Jose Calderon.

In his final year in Toronto he put up 24ppg, 11rpg, 1 blk on 52% shooting from the field and 36% from 3.

He played the last 17 games for Toronto as they went 6-11 and missed the playoffs by 1 game. LOL @ All NBA. He only missed 12 games on the season and couldn't hold it together. Good player. Top 30ish. At best. Great? Not a chance.

The season before that they won 33 games. The season before that they were 41-41. The season before that, back in 07, a full 4 years before he joined the Heat, was definitively his best season. His only All NBA season of his HoF career. And LOL at Calderon, with 11 starts and 7th on the team in min and 8th in pts/36 at being his second best player.

And LOL @ 36% from 3. He made 8 3s on the SEASON.

I meant during his tenure with Toronto his second best player was Calderon.

Okay so who was his second best player that season? Bargnani? Turkoglu? Jarrett Jack?

It's not easy to lead a team when you are the sole all-star and have a weak supporting cast. You need at least another solid all-star or fringe all-star piece to compete at a good level.

Come on, dude...did you even watch that season?

Raptors were 29-24 when Bosh got hurt and they proceeded to go 2-10 in their next 12 games falling to 32-33.

You look at every advanced stat, every metric, regular stats and Bosh was a superstar player that season and the Raptors were on pace to win 45-50 games.

Wade was in Miami all by himself playing at MVP level and could only lead the Heat to 43 and 47 wins in the 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 seasons.

People can't keep making fun of the EAST and at the same time keep calling Chris Bosh a superstar even though he struggled to constantly get his team to playoffs. East was even worse in those days.
That would be like me calling Draymond Green a superstar.
And that was before Basketball changed so quickly after 2010. Chris Bosh wouldn't be #1 option on any good team since 2011.

[HurricaneKid]

Chris Bosh was a great player before joining the Heat, there is no question about it.

He made the 2nd all NBA team in 2007 and should have made it again in the 2009-2010 season but he got hurt. The Raptors were in 5th place that season and Bosh fractured a bone in his face and missed a bunch of games. The raptors fell to 9th place and did not make the playoffs, and only won 40 games.

Raptors did make the playoffs in 2007 and 2008 with Bosh as the focal point. His second best player was Jose Calderon.

In his final year in Toronto he put up 24ppg, 11rpg, 1 blk on 52% shooting from the field and 36% from 3.

He played the last 17 games for Toronto as they went 6-11 and missed the playoffs by 1 game. LOL @ All NBA. He only missed 12 games on the season and couldn't hold it together. Good player. Top 30ish. At best. Great? Not a chance.

The season before that they won 33 games. The season before that they were 41-41. The season before that, back in 07, a full 4 years before he joined the Heat, was definitively his best season. His only All NBA season of his HoF career. And LOL at Calderon, with 11 starts and 7th on the team in min and 8th in pts/36 at being his second best player.

And LOL @ 36% from 3. He made 8 3s on the SEASON.

I meant during his tenure with Toronto his second best player was Calderon. Calderon started nearly every game in the 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 seasons.

Okay so who was his second best player that season? Bargnani? Turkoglu? Jarrett Jack?

It's not easy to lead a team when you are the sole all-star and have a weak supporting cast. You need at least another solid all-star or fringe all-star piece to compete at a good level.

Come on, dude...did you even watch that season?

Raptors were 29-24 when Bosh got hurt and they proceeded to go 2-10 in their next 12 games falling to 32-33. I don't know if you are a Raptors fan but everyone acknowledges that 2009-2010 was his best season. He was in that contract year and was an absolute beast. Tough on the boards, a good shot blocker, solid defender, and probably the most skilled mid-range big man in the game at the time.

You look at every advanced stat, every metric, regular stats and Bosh was a superstar player that season and the Raptors were on pace to win 45-50 games.

Wade was in Miami all by himself playing at MVP level and could only lead the Heat to 43 and 47 wins in the 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 seasons.

I don't think anyone disputes Anthony Davis being the best big man in the league but even his team's have struggled with no one.

Last year the Pelicans won 34 games and the year before they won 30. His best year until he finally got some help was 45 wins. So should I penalize AD for having no one?

Not everyone. Certainly not the league, the media, etc that shut him out of the league awards. Sure, they were bad without him but they were still in the playoffs when he came back. It was him leading them to a 6-11 record over their last 17 that cost them their playoff spot. You seem intent on ignoring that and discussing what pace they were on before he led them the 9 seed. And PLENTY of people CRUSHED him for playing poorly down the stretch and seemingly wanting out of Toronto. And LOL at "Elite Players" not getting their teams to the playoffs in the East. He wasn't a great interior defender, he was soft and needed a C to take the banging for him in an age where the better play was consistently getting 4s that could shoot onto the floor. His 8 3s on the season weren't getting that done. And being a "good midrange shooter" is almost as important as being an effective VCR repairman. Show me a player outside of Curry and Dirk that shoots a lot of midrange shots and I'll show you a guy that takes bad shots. He shot ~44% from 10-23'. That's less than 90/100 possessions. That's settling for inefficient shots, not an elite player.

Anthony Parker shot 44% from 3 and was a REALLY good player in 07 and 08. Then he got old and diminished (and with him went the Raps wins).

Wins is a pretty important metric.

[king_james_vers]

And it's hard to appreciate Durant when he's playing on a team where he has to get single covered and he wrecked what would have been an epic rivalry by joining the side that already had the most talent in the league.

We aren't angry with KD because he is a bum. We are angry with KD because he is one of the best players in the NBA and he literally broke the league.

Ink is exactly right here. If you have been watching the Finals post G1 the Warriors have been doubling LeBron every time he gets to the lane (with the DPoY). Often earlier. He has gotten his teammates open looks but they have largely not made the Warriors pay for fundamentally setting their D to allow others open looks but not to allow LeBron to singlehandedly beat them.

After G2 when Steph destroyed the Cavs, Cleveland treated him similarly. They trapped the PnRs they couldn't hedge (most of them) which led to Dray having the ball on a 4-on-3. Defenders wouldn't leave Klay and KD so the Cavs were literally giving GSW a 2-on-1 every time they wanted it. When Dray, Looney, and even Iggy couldn't beat that very well (McGee sure did though) they went to KD on the worst Cav defender.

So it wasn't nearly the "best offensive performance" because he was literally a secondary priority to the Cavs. He never saw a double. He picked on slow and small defenders without concern over help defenders or double teams. He was literally playing in the wake of other great players. So yeah, as a role playing secondary option he is pretty much the best ever. Which again, is why we were all so mad when he went there.

Holy crap. HurricaneKid has absolutely dismantled this thread. Stellar job dude, I'm loving every post you throw out in this topic.

You know, there is a lot of drivel on message boards... but people come back to them because of worthwhile posts like you've made in this topic. I love that you actually broke down, in detail, the luxuries that Durant is afforded.

[SF_Warriors]

I'm realistic enough to accept that if we still had Harrison Barnes, we are not likely to be winning a third championship. We may not of even won last year.

So yes, I appreciate him and what he brings to my team immensely.

Why do you say this? GSW dominated with Barnes (without KD). I don't see any reason to believe they still wouldn't be a top team assuming the same core was still intact.

If they resigned barnes, they still wouldnt be able to afford a decent center..also guys like iguodala and livingston are in decline. They would definitely not be as good, although still pretty good. Also the 2016 finals showed that if curry was struggling, no one on the team could pick up the slack, especially barnes.

[kamaze]

KD gets hated on bc he and his team are so good, teams can't stop them so they discredit him. He played a great game 2 and 3 he's unstoppable when he is aggressive and utilizes the mid range game within the offense instead of isolating at the top of the key.
He also did a great job of finding his teammates in game 3.

[Danny1616]

He played the last 17 games for Toronto as they went 6-11 and missed the playoffs by 1 game. LOL @ All NBA. He only missed 12 games on the season and couldn't hold it together. Good player. Top 30ish. At best. Great? Not a chance.

The season before that they won 33 games. The season before that they were 41-41. The season before that, back in 07, a full 4 years before he joined the Heat, was definitively his best season. His only All NBA season of his HoF career. And LOL at Calderon, with 11 starts and 7th on the team in min and 8th in pts/36 at being his second best player.

And LOL @ 36% from 3. He made 8 3s on the SEASON.

I meant during his tenure with Toronto his second best player was Calderon. Calderon started nearly every game in the 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 seasons.

Okay so who was his second best player that season? Bargnani? Turkoglu? Jarrett Jack?

It's not easy to lead a team when you are the sole all-star and have a weak supporting cast. You need at least another solid all-star or fringe all-star piece to compete at a good level.

Come on, dude...did you even watch that season?

Raptors were 29-24 when Bosh got hurt and they proceeded to go 2-10 in their next 12 games falling to 32-33. I don't know if you are a Raptors fan but everyone acknowledges that 2009-2010 was his best season. He was in that contract year and was an absolute beast. Tough on the boards, a good shot blocker, solid defender, and probably the most skilled mid-range big man in the game at the time.

You look at every advanced stat, every metric, regular stats and Bosh was a superstar player that season and the Raptors were on pace to win 45-50 games.

Wade was in Miami all by himself playing at MVP level and could only lead the Heat to 43 and 47 wins in the 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 seasons.

I don't think anyone disputes Anthony Davis being the best big man in the league but even his team's have struggled with no one.

Last year the Pelicans won 34 games and the year before they won 30. His best year until he finally got some help was 45 wins. So should I penalize AD for having no one?

Not everyone. Certainly not the league, the media, etc that shut him out of the league awards. Sure, they were bad without him but they were still in the playoffs when he came back. It was him leading them to a 6-11 record over their last 17 that cost them their playoff spot. You seem intent on ignoring that and discussing what pace they were on before he led them the 9 seed. And PLENTY of people CRUSHED him for playing poorly down the stretch and seemingly wanting out of Toronto. And LOL at "Elite Players" not getting their teams to the playoffs in the East. He wasn't a great interior defender, he was soft and needed a C to take the banging for him in an age where the better play was consistently getting 4s that could shoot onto the floor. His 8 3s on the season weren't getting that done. And being a "good midrange shooter" is almost as important as being an effective VCR repairman. Show me a player outside of Curry and Dirk that shoots a lot of midrange shots and I'll show you a guy that takes bad shots. He shot ~44% from 10-23'. That's less than 90/100 possessions. That's settling for inefficient shots, not an elite player.

Anthony Parker shot 44% from 3 and was a REALLY good player in 07 and 08. Then he got old and diminished (and with him went the Raps wins).

Wins is a pretty important metric.

You seriously sound like you didn't watch a single game that year and it shows.

Bosh performed poorly at the end of the season?

Bosh missed the last 6 games of the season so I really don't know why you keep mentioning they went 6-11 down to finish the season when they lost 5 games in a row with him out of the line up.

Before he got hurt he had 42 points against the Warriors (missed the easy game winning tip in that would've sealed a playoff birth), 28 points on 8-14 shooting against Philly, 34 points on 12-17 against LAC, 22 points on 10-19 shooting against Charlotte.

Those are pretty great numbers.

Again, he didn't have any help on that team. Turkoglu, Bargnani, Jack, Jose are not good enough players to be your 2nd and 3rd options.

As I mentioned players like AD and Wade could barely lead their teams to the playoffs despite posting MVP type numbers.

Being a great mid-range player in the late 2000s was valuable. Maybe not in the league today, but it was a different time. Some of the best players in the league were primarily mid-range players.

Are you seriously going to pin the Raptors success on Parker. I loved the guy but Bosh was the sole reason Raptors were competitive during that era.

There is a reason Raptors went from 40-42 with Bosh (despite his injury) to 22-60 the year after he left.

[taikibansei]

And it's hard to appreciate Durant when he's playing on a team where he has to get single covered and he wrecked what would have been an epic rivalry by joining the side that already had the most talent in the league.

We aren't angry with KD because he is a bum. We are angry with KD because he is one of the best players in the NBA and he literally broke the league.

Ink is exactly right here. If you have been watching the Finals post G1 the Warriors have been doubling LeBron every time he gets to the lane (with the DPoY). Often earlier. He has gotten his teammates open looks but they have largely not made the Warriors pay for fundamentally setting their D to allow others open looks but not to allow LeBron to singlehandedly beat them.

After G2 when Steph destroyed the Cavs, Cleveland treated him similarly. They trapped the PnRs they couldn't hedge (most of them) which led to Dray having the ball on a 4-on-3. Defenders wouldn't leave Klay and KD so the Cavs were literally giving GSW a 2-on-1 every time they wanted it. When Dray, Looney, and even Iggy couldn't beat that very well (McGee sure did though) they went to KD on the worst Cav defender.

So it wasn't nearly the "best offensive performance" because he was literally a secondary priority to the Cavs. He never saw a double. He picked on slow and small defenders without concern over help defenders or double teams. He was literally playing in the wake of other great players. So yeah, as a role playing secondary option he is pretty much the best ever. Which again, is why we were all so mad when he went there.

Great post. The Cavs are being forced to leave KD--only a recent league and finals MVP--open so that they can guard the other Warriors. That's how stacked GSW is.

People keep saying that without KD, the Warriors wouldn't have won last year. Why do people keep saying this? I mean, they make it sound like the Warriors were completely over-matched, and that KD was the necessary element to winning. That's not true.

In the previous finals, the Warriors without KD were up 3-1 against the Cavs, only to lose Green and then Bogut for Game 5...helping to turn the series against them. And yet that series still came down to the last few minutes in a very tight game. It was a fun series to watch, because it was so close.

KD was the necessary element to blowing out the Cavs in five games. He was not necessary to win a series. Even without KD, GSW would have still been the favorites against the Cavs last year. Yes, the games would have been tight. Yes, GSW might still have lost again--though with all the salary cap room GSW had, I'm sure they would have found other player(s) who could have joined and contributed. I mean, look at the partial list of available free agents:

Al Horford, F/C
Mike Conley, PG
Andre Drummond, C
Nicolas Batum, G/F
DeMar DeRozan, G/F
Dwyane Wade, G
Bradley Beal, G
Dwight Howard, C
Kent Bazemore, G/F
Evan Fournier, G
Rajon Rondo, PG

In other words, assuming they found somebody else instead of KD, the GSW were set up to be just fine last season, without KD.

Adding KD turned the probable into the inevitable. And you know, good for GSW. At the same time they crippled a major competitor, GSW also added a piece that made, barring major injury, a final's victory pretty much a certainty...for the next few years. (I'm thinking this series will go five games...tops.) Again, no hard feelings towards GSW.

These constant revisionist history posts about (and likely by) KD, though, are somewhat...sad.

[SF_Warriors]

I meant during his tenure with Toronto his second best player was Calderon. Calderon started nearly every game in the 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 seasons.

Okay so who was his second best player that season? Bargnani? Turkoglu? Jarrett Jack?

It's not easy to lead a team when you are the sole all-star and have a weak supporting cast. You need at least another solid all-star or fringe all-star piece to compete at a good level.

Come on, dude...did you even watch that season?

Raptors were 29-24 when Bosh got hurt and they proceeded to go 2-10 in their next 12 games falling to 32-33. I don't know if you are a Raptors fan but everyone acknowledges that 2009-2010 was his best season. He was in that contract year and was an absolute beast. Tough on the boards, a good shot blocker, solid defender, and probably the most skilled mid-range big man in the game at the time.

You look at every advanced stat, every metric, regular stats and Bosh was a superstar player that season and the Raptors were on pace to win 45-50 games.

Wade was in Miami all by himself playing at MVP level and could only lead the Heat to 43 and 47 wins in the 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 seasons.

I don't think anyone disputes Anthony Davis being the best big man in the league but even his team's have struggled with no one.

Last year the Pelicans won 34 games and the year before they won 30. His best year until he finally got some help was 45 wins. So should I penalize AD for having no one?

Not everyone. Certainly not the league, the media, etc that shut him out of the league awards. Sure, they were bad without him but they were still in the playoffs when he came back. It was him leading them to a 6-11 record over their last 17 that cost them their playoff spot. You seem intent on ignoring that and discussing what pace they were on before he led them the 9 seed. And PLENTY of people CRUSHED him for playing poorly down the stretch and seemingly wanting out of Toronto. And LOL at "Elite Players" not getting their teams to the playoffs in the East. He wasn't a great interior defender, he was soft and needed a C to take the banging for him in an age where the better play was consistently getting 4s that could shoot onto the floor. His 8 3s on the season weren't getting that done. And being a "good midrange shooter" is almost as important as being an effective VCR repairman. Show me a player outside of Curry and Dirk that shoots a lot of midrange shots and I'll show you a guy that takes bad shots. He shot ~44% from 10-23'. That's less than 90/100 possessions. That's settling for inefficient shots, not an elite player.

Anthony Parker shot 44% from 3 and was a REALLY good player in 07 and 08. Then he got old and diminished (and with him went the Raps wins).

Wins is a pretty important metric.

You seriously sound like you didn't watch a single game that year and it shows.

Bosh performed poorly at the end of the season?

Bosh missed the last 6 games of the season so I really don't know why you keep mentioning they went 6-11 down to finish the season when they lost 5 games in a row with him out of the line up.

Before he got hurt he had 42 points against the Warriors (missed the easy game winning tip in that would've sealed a playoff birth), 28 points on 8-14 shooting against Philly, 34 points on 12-17 against LAC, 22 points on 10-19 shooting against Charlotte.

Those are pretty great numbers.

Again, he didn't have any help on that team. Turkoglu, Bargnani, Jack, Jose are not good enough players to be your 2nd and 3rd options.

As I mentioned players like AD and Wade could barely lead their teams to the playoffs despite posting MVP type numbers.

Being a great mid-range player in the late 2000s was valuable. Maybe not in the league today, but it was a different time. Some of the best players in the league were primarily mid-range players.

Are you seriously going to pin the Raptors success on Parker. I loved the guy but Bosh was the sole reason Raptors were competitive during that era.

There is a reason Raptors went from 40-42 with Bosh (despite his injury) to 22-60 the year after he left.

Top 30ish player? Look at the all star rosters during his last year in toronto..name 25 players better than bosh that season. A guy who can play boh center and PF that is a very good mid range shooter is an incredible asset in todays nba.

Bosh was a perennial all star at that point. He was not a superstar or top ten player by any stretch of the imagination, but you know a guys supporting cast was bad when someone mentions anthony freaking parker as his best teammate...

[SF_Warriors]

I meant during his tenure with Toronto his second best player was Calderon. Calderon started nearly every game in the 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 seasons.

Okay so who was his second best player that season? Bargnani? Turkoglu? Jarrett Jack?

It's not easy to lead a team when you are the sole all-star and have a weak supporting cast. You need at least another solid all-star or fringe all-star piece to compete at a good level.

Come on, dude...did you even watch that season?

Raptors were 29-24 when Bosh got hurt and they proceeded to go 2-10 in their next 12 games falling to 32-33. I don't know if you are a Raptors fan but everyone acknowledges that 2009-2010 was his best season. He was in that contract year and was an absolute beast. Tough on the boards, a good shot blocker, solid defender, and probably the most skilled mid-range big man in the game at the time.

You look at every advanced stat, every metric, regular stats and Bosh was a superstar player that season and the Raptors were on pace to win 45-50 games.

Wade was in Miami all by himself playing at MVP level and could only lead the Heat to 43 and 47 wins in the 2008-2009 and 2009-2010 seasons.

I don't think anyone disputes Anthony Davis being the best big man in the league but even his team's have struggled with no one.

Last year the Pelicans won 34 games and the year before they won 30. His best year until he finally got some help was 45 wins. So should I penalize AD for having no one?

Not everyone. Certainly not the league, the media, etc that shut him out of the league awards. Sure, they were bad without him but they were still in the playoffs when he came back. It was him leading them to a 6-11 record over their last 17 that cost them their playoff spot. You seem intent on ignoring that and discussing what pace they were on before he led them the 9 seed. And PLENTY of people CRUSHED him for playing poorly down the stretch and seemingly wanting out of Toronto. And LOL at "Elite Players" not getting their teams to the playoffs in the East. He wasn't a great interior defender, he was soft and needed a C to take the banging for him in an age where the better play was consistently getting 4s that could shoot onto the floor. His 8 3s on the season weren't getting that done. And being a "good midrange shooter" is almost as important as being an effective VCR repairman. Show me a player outside of Curry and Dirk that shoots a lot of midrange shots and I'll show you a guy that takes bad shots. He shot ~44% from 10-23'. That's less than 90/100 possessions. That's settling for inefficient shots, not an elite player.

Anthony Parker shot 44% from 3 and was a REALLY good player in 07 and 08. Then he got old and diminished (and with him went the Raps wins).

Wins is a pretty important metric.

You seriously sound like you didn't watch a single game that year and it shows.

Bosh performed poorly at the end of the season?

Bosh missed the last 6 games of the season so I really don't know why you keep mentioning they went 6-11 down to finish the season when they lost 5 games in a row with him out of the line up.

Before he got hurt he had 42 points against the Warriors (missed the easy game winning tip in that would've sealed a playoff birth), 28 points on 8-14 shooting against Philly, 34 points on 12-17 against LAC, 22 points on 10-19 shooting against Charlotte.

Those are pretty great numbers.

Again, he didn't have any help on that team. Turkoglu, Bargnani, Jack, Jose are not good enough players to be your 2nd and 3rd options.

As I mentioned players like AD and Wade could barely lead their teams to the playoffs despite posting MVP type numbers.

Being a great mid-range player in the late 2000s was valuable. Maybe not in the league today, but it was a different time. Some of the best players in the league were primarily mid-range players.

Are you seriously going to pin the Raptors success on Parker. I loved the guy but Bosh was the sole reason Raptors were competitive during that era.

There is a reason Raptors went from 40-42 with Bosh (despite his injury) to 22-60 the year after he left.

Top 30ish player? Look at the all star rosters during his last year in toronto..name 25 players better than bosh that season. A guy who can play both center and PF that is a very good mid range shooter is an incredible asset in todays nba.

Bosh was a perennial all star at that point. He was not a superstar or top ten player by any stretch of the imagination, but you know a guys supporting cast was bad when someone mentions anthony freaking parker as his best teammate...

Can people please stop being so biased and unobjective? A perennial all star is barely a top 30 player? Do people realize how stupid that sounds?

[Marvel]

What was so surprising?

He is an MVP caliber player and arguably one of the greatest scorers and isolation players in the history of the game. With his height and skill level he is nearly unstoppable.

The problem is he decided to join the best team in the league with another MVP player and two other all-stars so it defenses can't load up on him and take away his game.

I really don't get what is so impressive...KD should be capable of doing this every night with the amount of attention Steph and Klay draw from defenses.

post.

[nbafan38]

People act like we didn't know KD was great before he joined the Warriors. I mean he almost beat the warriors the year before he joined and quite frankly probably should have. I do not appreciate watching KD play for a team that was already good enough to win without him, I would appreciate it much more watching him deliver a ring to a team that needed him

[michaelm]

He's excellent. Reminds me of myself actually. My 7 year old nephew is in this league and a while back they were by far the best team in that age group...rarely lost. They decided to let me play along with them. I thought I could make them even better and we could dominate. I seriously was unstoppable. We never lost. Got a trophy. People thought it was ridiculous and were kind of pissed I was out there playing but hey, I don't listen to them. I don't see them carrying around trophies. Who cares what people think if I'm happy?

Yes, false equivalence will get you many and 1s on this forum.

[michaelm]

Championships are championships when you play at a MVP tier.
No ring means more than another.

False.

Legacy matters.

People say we won't remember how KD won his rings in 20 years but that's false. A lot of us will remember his move as the softest professional sports move we've ever seen.

It will stain his legacy forever.

Makes me think of watching the former player analysts on TV... Shaq, Kenny Smith, Chauncy Billups, Jalen, Barkeley, Pierce... they like to rib each other about their careers... you think when Durant's generation takes over those roles they won't be snickering and slighting Durant for how he won his championships? You think that won't bother him? He has shown himself to be the most sensitive dude ever. It's gonna haunt him forever.

Dude is freaking stained.

That's one of the things about all this.

If you want to talk current players Isiah Thomas straight out said that Durant was correct to look after himself rather than trusting in fickle and ruthless management/ownership. I myself would say that applies to fans as well. Lebron's not doing any whining about KD's move either, being perhaps less hypocritical than some of his fans. The main complainants among current players were Westbrook and some of the other OKC players for obvious reasons, and by all reports Westbrook has looked at leaving OKC himself.

[-G-]

He's the 2nd best player in the league. I don't give him as much credit for winning 2 rings with the Warriors because the team is too stacked, but I don't fault him for going there and stacking up rings. We heavily weight number of rings when we rank players, how are we going to blame players for putting themselves in the best position to get as many as they can?