Bayless: Vince Carter played himself out of HOF in late career

[An Unbiased Fan]

2. Vince has had a Hall of Fame Career. For all of his haters out there, there is virtually (yes, quite literally) no way that he doesn't get into the HOF. Argue and debate all you want but he'll be in there with the other greats. The best part? Nothing you all say will be able to change that.

He's not getting in.

[Froob]

Clicked on this wondering why Jerryd Bayless would say such a thing.

[Luigi]

I kinda respect Carter for wanting to put in that much work each year to keep playing. He's going places that will need his minutes. He wants to keep fighting.

The alternative would have been to try to be a small role player for a contending team. But if he wants the volume, that's impressive.

[Boarder Patrol]

From the Onion:

NEW YORK—Saying that nobody deserves to endure such an atrocious fate, doctors at Mount Sinai Medical Center announced at a press conference Tuesday that they had diagnosed cancer with stage IV Skip Bayless.

Surgical oncologist Dr. Andrew Bergman confirmed that Skip Bayless, one of the most dreaded and abhorrent diseases known to mankind, had metastasized, spreading throughout the malignant neoplasm and causing excruciating pain in the cancerous tissue.

“Realistically, cancer has little hope for survival with Skip Bayless this bad,” said Bergman, predicting that cancer will suffer severe agony brought on by the vociferous affliction that cuts off anyone in its path. “Based upon my professional experience, I’d say Skip Bayless is just about the worst thing you could have to deal with.”

[badass316]

Don't know why anyone would be upset. Everyone knows Bayless is a moron. Taking his word with anything but a grain of salt would be downright stupid. He's click bait, nothing more.

[LibertyPrime]

That's the worst kind of attention-seeking from Skip. Just pathetic.

[Picasso]

Basketball reference has him at 94 percent getting in. So yeah dont listen to skip Bayless or the coke head cowherd. Just garbage both of them.

[Jay 20]

This adds to his legacy in my opinion. This guy used to average 26+ ppg. Now he's getting DNP-Coaches Decisions and is perfectly fine with his role and is a great mentor. Melo still won't except coming off the bench and will probably think he needs to start when he's 41.

[Repeat 3-peat]

We need to ban all FS1 "analysts"...all of them suck.

ESPN has some clowns but JFC everything from FS1 is trash.

[dub81]

We need to ban all FS1 "analysts"...all of them suck.

That's funny because it's the opposite, ESPN sucks

I don't know if I agree with that. Sure there are plenty of people on ESPN that are terrible but would still listen to what Zach Lowe has to say over anyone at FS1.

I find myself watching High Noon with Pablo and Bo. Those men can go. I might not agree with everything they say, but they make points in their arguments that make you understand the reason why they so some things.

[Rocketsbaby]

Skip Bayless knows slightly more about basketball than Stephen A Smith.

Vince Carter was still a good player by advanced metrics as recently as LAST YEAR. He was in a playoff rotation at nearly 40 years old.

If that's not a "plus" for the hall of fame then the hall of fame is stupid. Do you know how many WINGS are capable of that?


Vince Carter was arguably a better player than Michael Jordan at the same age. Does that diminish MJ's Hall of Fame case?

Vince Carter was easily better than Kobe Bryant at the same age. Not even debatable. Is Kobe not a hall of famer?

[Rocketsbaby]

Bayless and Cowherd both sound like they've never watched a full basketball game in their lives.

I mean in all honesty these guys have to wake up at 3 AM to get to work and prepare for their jobs...that's how early these type of productions begin. You have meetings and stuff at 430 in the morning before you go on the air.

So almost none of these guys watch the games . They get the talking points from production assistants and maybe watch the 4th quarter or a condensed version of the game while they're on the treadmill that morning.


But to think a guy like Skip Bayless with a 90 hour a weeek job watches more basketball than someone like me who typically watches 10-15 games a week is absolutely, positively wrong. I can guarantee I watch more basketball in the average SEASON than Skip bayless has in the last decade. So to take anything these guys say seriously is ridiculous.

Their arguments are strictly to push narratives and generate ratings. They are essentially marketing the NBA to you so you watch the game that night. They do not know anything about anything except how to drive ratings and create attention for their product.

[Rocketsbaby]

yep, we should definitely start punishing athletes for having long healthy career and a love of the game that keeps them going long after others have left.

Seriously...This is like taking away the career achievements from a world renowned physicist who chose to teach a course to college kids after he retired...

People who go with the "That guy needs to retire" take are seriously the worst. This isn't about you. Basketball is that guy's life's work and he gets to decide when he wants to walk away. Not some idiot with a microphone.

If you can't appreciate a man putting that amount of effort in to stay in the league at that age then you have zero appreciation for the game and frankly you shouldn't watch sports. What these guys do to prepare for a game on a daily basis... the majority have no idea.

So you go through the motions at your crappy day job for another 20 years buddy. Guess what the 25 year old they hired last week is already more productive than you too.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Vince Carter was arguably a better player than Michael Jordan at the same age. Does that diminish MJ's Hall of Fame case?

Vince Carter was easily better than Kobe Bryant at the same age. Not even debatable. Is Kobe not a hall of famer?

Neither of these statements are true.

Vince came into the league at 22, and at no point was Vince every as good as MJ or Kobe by the time they reach 22.

Kobe didn't play to 40, and MJ was better than Vince at 40.

Vince at no point was ever the best at his position in the NBA. He was a defensive liability, and again the 00's version of Demar.

[Rocketsbaby]

Disagree with Skip.......Vince has never been HOF level.

Resume:
All-NBA 2nd team - once
All-NBA 3rd team - once
Top 9 MVP finishes - never
NBA Finals - never
Conference Finals - once

What's Vince's argument other than being arguably the GOAT dunker.

I agree with you that Vince has never been the elite player that 90% of other HOF's have been. The HOF has a pretty darn low level of barrier to entry though. I dont even bother getting into HOF debates about the basketball HOF because it just isnt sacred like baseball and doesnt have the level of standards to make it anything worth defending IMO

And I would also argue that being the GOAT dunker alone makes you a HOF. THere is something about the slam dunk that if you are the very best of all-time I think you are a hall of famer, period. And i would argue that if the guy average 8 ppg for six seasons.

[Dupp]

I think it’s pretty obvious carter will make the hof. Popularity alone might do it. There’s a very low standard.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Disagree with Skip.......Vince has never been HOF level.

Resume:
All-NBA 2nd team - once
All-NBA 3rd team - once
Top 9 MVP finishes - never
NBA Finals - never
Conference Finals - once

What's Vince's argument other than being arguably the GOAT dunker.

I agree with you that Vince has never been the elite player that 90% of other HOF's have been. The HOF has a pretty darn low level of barrier to entry though. I dont even bother getting into HOF debates about the basketball HOF because it just isnt sacred like baseball and doesnt have the level of standards to make it anything worth defending IMO

And I would also argue that being the GOAT dunker alone makes you a HOF. THere is something about the slam dunk that if you are the very best of all-time I think you are a hall of famer, period. And i would argue that if the guy average 8 ppg for six seasons.

Fair enough.

[Rocketsbaby]

I don't like Vince but if Mitch Ritchmond made the hall of fame then Vince is easily in the hall of fame.

Richmond made five All-NBA teams......to Vince's two. Mitch is about as borderline as you can get for the HOF.

Sometimes all NBA teams are not the best indicator either because the league may be stacked at your position. I mean Reggie Miller only made 5 all-star appearances and was a 3 time all NBA third team player but nobody questions his hall of fame credentials.

Vince is still an 8 time all-star and dominant in the league for almost a decade.

His stats are right up there with the all time greats and he did it for almost a decade.

A guy that put up an average of 25, 5 and 5 on solid efficiency for 6-7 years is a hall of fame caliber player.

Every single player who has scored over 20k points has made the hall of fame and Vince is about to reach 25k.

I would argue the same thing about Reggie with regards to shooting as i did about Vince with regards to dunking.

Reggie was one of the pioneers of the 3 point shot. I used to run around in my room pretending i was coming off screens and tossing the Nerf basketball to myself and kicking my legs out to imitate him.

If you are the GOAT shooter (and he certainly was before Ray Allen/Steph Curry came along) then you should be in the hall of fame.

It's not ALL about overall level of impact. If you display any of the greatest individual skill in the history of a sport, you are in the Hall of Fame. No one took and made the shots Reggie Miller did. You can argue analytics until you're blue in the face but if you sit down and watch a Reggie Miller game. And then compare it to other games of that era and walk away without the realization that Reggie Miller was cut from a different cloth then you're an idiot.

It would be like arguing that Hakeem Olajuwon wasn't a great center because today he couldn't shoot 3's and space the floor.

[Rocketsbaby]

College is also included and During his sophomore and junior seasons, Carter helped North Carolina to consecutive ACC Men's Basketball Tournament titles and Final Four appearances. He finished the 1997–98 season with a 15.6 points per game average and was named second-team All-American, First-Team All-ACC, and to the fan's guide third-annual Coaches ACC All-Defensive Team.

As someone who watched nearly every game of his college career i gotta tell you it was thoroughly unimpressive all things considered.

He used his athleticism to get a handful of buckets and UNC had Ed Cota (one of ACC all time leading assist getters) throwing him 2 uncontested backdoor lobs off screens every single game.

He generally limped through games and was known for being completely invisible when it mattered most. He's not the first guy to underachieve in college at UNC and then break out in the pros (AHEM ) so I don't put this all on Vince though.

Antawn Jamison on the other hand was one of the best collegiate players I have EVER seen. So Vince getting out of the way was doing what was best for the team. Antawn Jamison had a game against Duke where he scored over 30 points and only had the ball for something insane like 46 seconds. That's unbelievable.

[Rocketsbaby]

Gaudy numbers??

Again, he's never even finished in the Top 9 for MVP. Never been All-NBA 1st team. Only made 2nd and 3rd team ONCE. He has no business in the HOF.

20/5/4 with bad defense, and no Top 3 scoring finishes is just weak.

Stop it dude. He finished Top 7 in Scoring 5x and Top 5 once, that's fine.

Averaged 21-28 and 5-6 and 4-5 for a decade straight, I get your point about it being the hall of FAME, but I am simply going by how they let players in, there are players in there with not as good of a resume as Vince.

Top 7 in scoring is not impressive. Vince was great at one thing, and that was dunking. Everything else he was mediocre at.

Both Manu & Pau were better players and they're likely getting into the HOF based on international play, not just the NBA.

Vince = 00's version of Demar Derozan

Manu and Pau were both easily better basketball players than Vince. No argument there but those guys are about as open and shut case for HOF as there should be. Those guys played absolutely elite basketball at some of the more extreme career spans we've ever seen. And in an era where that is significantly tougher to do due to pace of play.