Has Lebron always been this whiny dude that doesn't take accountability for himself/failures?

[mg]

Honestly it's a bad look to have a supposed GOAT publicly call out his young teammates..He's the one that made the choice to sign there.
He also had a say in those vets they signed this offseason too. Everybody could see last summer that Laker team was not good roster construction.

[The_Hater]

The problem for Lebron is he's 3-6 in the Finals. Other stars have winning records, so when people bring up 8 FInals.....others will point out that Lebron wouldn't have made the Finals 8 straight timein the West.
It's weird how people use his FInals appearances to elevate Bron, but get upset when his bad Finals record is brought up. They go hand in hand. Then you compound things by Bron forming his Wade/Bosh and Love/Kyrie teams, and the results really are unimpressive.

Here we go.

He made the fInals as the best player on his team NINE TIMES, only idiots try spin that into a negative. By this measure losing in the conference finals or even failing to make the playoffs is better than losing in the finals which is ridiculous.

He made the Finals in the East 9 times, and lost 6 of them to the West team. I didn't bring up his 8 Finals appearance, I'm simply pointing out that if someone does...then we can talk about how bad Lebron's playoff record is against WC teams(18-28).

You’re making such ridiculous arguments now.

Hatred is a very strong emotion my friend, and not easy to overcome even when that player is wearing your team’s colors apparently.

Time for you to stop lying and change that user name.

[LKN]

Saying that going 3-0 in the Finals is about the same as going 3-6 is ridiculous. 6 losses in the finals means he won his conference 6 times. That is unquestionably better than not winning your conference.

Winning a weak conference isn't a title. Ask Jim Kelly

I still don't see how you want me to praise Finals appearances.....but then dismisses Finals losses.

You don't have to praise Finals losses. But acting like they're the worst thing a player can do is very silly. You don't talk about Jordan or Kobe's first round losses, but you constantly harp on LeBron's Finals losses. By doing that you're arguing that it's better to win zero rounds than win three.

LOL, like everyone LEbron thread this one has gone off the rails and off topic but here's my 2 cents:


I think it's a silly argument too. I'm not going to knock Lebron for getting to the finals - not his fault the East sucks.

On the other hand, the east has been pretty awful... so I'm not giving him extra credit either. That's very different from criticizing him though.

I do think it's fair to say that the Cavs probably haven't been the 2nd best team several years when they came up short (they certainly weren't last year)... but again, that's not Lebron's fault and he shouldn't be penalized for it.

[An Unbiased Fan]

Saying that going 3-0 in the Finals is about the same as going 3-6 is ridiculous. 6 losses in the finals means he won his conference 6 times. That is unquestionably better than not winning your conference.

Winning a weak conference isn't a title. Ask Jim Kelly

I still don't see how you want me to praise Finals appearances.....but then dismisses Finals losses.

You don't have to praise Finals losses. But acting like they're the worst thing a player can do is very silly. You don't talk about Jordan or Kobe's first round losses, but you constantly harp on LeBron's Finals losses. By doing that you're arguing that it's better to win zero rounds than win three.

I never said they were a bad thing. But if people want to bring them up, then it can be pointed out that the EC was historical weak, and that Lebron wouldn't have 8 straight FInals in the WC. It's no shock that Lebron isn't doing the same things this season, since the West is much harder. No easy games to take off, and the playoffs are even more of a grind. Lebron has had the luxury of coasting during the regular season and early rounds throughout his career.

[thebigbird]

Winning a weak conference isn't a title. Ask Jim Kelly

I still don't see how you want me to praise Finals appearances.....but then dismisses Finals losses.

You don't have to praise Finals losses. But acting like they're the worst thing a player can do is very silly. You don't talk about Jordan or Kobe's first round losses, but you constantly harp on LeBron's Finals losses. By doing that you're arguing that it's better to win zero rounds than win three.

LOL, like everyone LEbron thread this one has gone off the rails and off topic but here's my 2 cents:


I think it's a silly argument too. I'm not going to knock Lebron for getting to the finals - not his fault the East sucks.

On the other hand, the east has been pretty awful... so I'm not giving him extra credit either. That's very different from criticizing him though.

I do think it's fair to say that the Cavs probably haven't been the 2nd best team several years when they came up short (they certainly weren't last year)... but again, that's not Lebron's fault and he shouldn't be penalized for it.

Last year's Cavs team would've missed the playoffs without Lebron. Because of him, they made it to the Finals. They beat a 48 win team, beat a 55 win team without home court, and swept a 59 win team. When a player is the difference between a trip to the lottery and a trip to the NBA finals, why shouldn't he get credit for that?

[Mk0]

None of this is new. I always figured that it was why Cleveland was always trying to surround him with 'win now' players in his first stint.

None of this is an issue until he goes public, be it interview or tweet.

Read on Twitter

[batmana]

Basically yes. That's why he has traded (or attempted to trade) half of his roster more than once mid-season; changed head coaches...

Somewhat OT but now that New Orleans have won a game (against a team trying to make the playoffs) without Davis, and lost games with Davis, would it make sense to just have him log DNP-CDs with the explanation that they are a better team without him (which apparently they are since without him everyone else is playing to win). Furthermore, would they win the Lakers game WITH Davis? I bet LeBron didn't see this one coming and this got him so super-pissed, he always tries to control everything...

[CycklopsGT]

Lebron has a bit of bully in him. He was always bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled and more favored than the other kids. When he wanted something that he wasn't getting, he learned to take it by jumping over, powering through, or using his reputation and leverage. Not by relentlessly outworking or relating to other people. That wasn't a skill or virtue he ever had to develop. So when the pressure is on, he defaults to those instincts. Including when he wants to get a championship.

[JoeBarryCaroll]

Everyone always compares Lebron to MJ.... well MJ was sometimes a complete a-hole to guys behind the scenes, but he always took the high road with the media and took the pressure and blame onto himself. That's your job as a star player (and as a good coach) You win and lose as a team and address problems inside your house.

I'm as much of an MJ fan as anyone but come 'on. I remember many times MJ talked to the press about his teammates. You don't remember him telling the media in Chicago that Luc Longley better start catching his passes cleanly because from now on he's going to throw the passes right to his face so he stops fumbling them??

Don't remember him going off on the worm at all eitherl???

[B-Ball Freak]

Yes hes always been like that

[LKN]

Everyone always compares Lebron to MJ.... well MJ was sometimes a complete a-hole to guys behind the scenes, but he always took the high road with the media and took the pressure and blame onto himself. That's your job as a star player (and as a good coach) You win and lose as a team and address problems inside your house.

I'm as much of an MJ fan as anyone but come 'on. I remember many times MJ talked to the press about his teammates. You don't remember him telling the media in Chicago that Luc Longley better start catching his passes cleanly because from now on he's going to throw the passes right to his face so he stops fumbling them??

Don't remember him going off on the worm at all eitherl???

Hey man, my memory could be failing me... it was a long time ago and I was in college then killing brain cells!

I really don't remember him going off in post game interviews and such (he certainly may have). I certainly do remember all the stuff that came out from behind the scenes. MJ clearly could be brutal to guys in practice and such.

[LKN]

You don't have to praise Finals losses. But acting like they're the worst thing a player can do is very silly. You don't talk about Jordan or Kobe's first round losses, but you constantly harp on LeBron's Finals losses. By doing that you're arguing that it's better to win zero rounds than win three.

LOL, like everyone LEbron thread this one has gone off the rails and off topic but here's my 2 cents:


I think it's a silly argument too. I'm not going to knock Lebron for getting to the finals - not his fault the East sucks.

On the other hand, the east has been pretty awful... so I'm not giving him extra credit either. That's very different from criticizing him though.

I do think it's fair to say that the Cavs probably haven't been the 2nd best team several years when they came up short (they certainly weren't last year)... but again, that's not Lebron's fault and he shouldn't be penalized for it.

Last year's Cavs team would've missed the playoffs without Lebron. Because of him, they made it to the Finals. They beat a 48 win team, beat a 55 win team without home court, and swept a 59 win team. When a player is the difference between a trip to the lottery and a trip to the NBA finals, why shouldn't he get credit for that?

Oh I didn't say he shouldn't get credit. I'm just not giving him extra credit (like I do for say 2016)

[woosah]

Basically yes. That's why he has traded (or attempted to trade) half of his roster more than once mid-season; changed head coaches...

Somewhat OT but now that New Orleans have won a game (against a team trying to make the playoffs) without Davis, and lost games with Davis, would it make sense to just have him log DNP-CDs with the explanation that they are a better team without him (which apparently they are since without him everyone else is playing to win). Furthermore, would they win the Lakers game WITH Davis? I bet LeBron didn't see this one coming and this got him so super-pissed, he always tries to control everything...

I think they will play him if he tries to make a stink about it, but really it's best for him to stay healthy for his own aspirations. They play again in like a week i think in LA and he will probably try to play. If they don't see the right play then they can bench him and be justified. If you eff up the flow, then to the bench you go.

[Cavsfansince84]

Lebron has a bit of bully in him. He was always bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled and more favored than the other kids. When he wanted something that he wasn't getting, he learned to take it by jumping over, powering through, or using his reputation and leverage. Not by relentlessly outworking or relating to other people. That wasn't a skill or virtue he ever had to develop. So when the pressure is on, he defaults to those instincts. Including when he wants to get a championship.

That characterization is an oversimplification to a large degree. LeBron's been easily one of the hardest working superstars to ever play in the nba. As someone who watched him a ton during his first Cleveland stint, the amount of improvement he showed in virtually every area from his rookie year up till 2009 was mind boggling. I don't think even now people fully give him credit for putting up 31/7/7 at the age of 21 on 57% ts. Then he was smart enough the next year to realize that his numbers don't need to keep going up so he shot less and started refining his game more and started getting better on defense. LeBron does use his clout on teams to bully teammates to some degree. The criticism for how he acts with the media or on social media is often warranted but he does put in the work. Both on his body and on his game. Relating to other people is also another criticism I've only ever heard leveled at LeBron. I mean do you honestly think MJ or Kobe were better at relating to teammates than LeBron is? That's pretty far fetched imo.

[Dupp]

But yes lebron is becoming increasingly more impatient and bitchy each year.


Truth is trade deadline probably killed this team. Chemistry probably can’t recover.

[Sgt P]

When you name yourself the king and chosen one it should be known. He is what he is, but doesn’t take away the fact that he’s a great great basketball player


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You have one too many greats. The league and media had been starved of a MJ level player for so long that jumped on and found a close enough one LJ. But L does not equal M.

[ocelot17]

If Lebron fails to even make the playoffs in the West, then it tarnishes his eight finals appearances, that just showed how bad the east is.

Hell, lakers are currently in 10th place with less than 30 games left in the regular season, that alone tarnishes his accomplishments.

[CycklopsGT]

Lebron has a bit of bully in him. He was always bigger, stronger, faster, more skilled and more favored than the other kids. When he wanted something that he wasn't getting, he learned to take it by jumping over, powering through, or using his reputation and leverage. Not by relentlessly outworking or relating to other people. That wasn't a skill or virtue he ever had to develop. So when the pressure is on, he defaults to those instincts. Including when he wants to get a championship.

That characterization is an oversimplification to a large degree. LeBron's been easily one of the hardest working superstars to ever play in the nba. As someone who watched him a ton during his first Cleveland stint, the amount of improvement he showed in virtually every area from his rookie year up till 2009 was mind boggling. I don't think even now people fully give him credit for putting up 31/7/7 at the age of 21 on 57% ts. Then he was smart enough the next year to realize that his numbers don't need to keep going up so he shot less and started refining his game more and started getting better on defense. LeBron does use his clout on teams to bully teammates to some degree. The criticism for how he acts with the media or on social media is often warranted but he does put in the work. Both on his body and on his game. Relating to other people is also another criticism I've only ever heard leveled at LeBron. I mean do you honestly think MJ or Kobe were better at relating to teammates than LeBron is? That's pretty far fetched imo.

Lebron did work very very hard, on his own game. But he's always worked out of a desire to amaze other people, I don't think he ever had a real challenge to meet or mountain to climb when he was young in the way that Jordan or even Kareem did (Kareem played against guys who were much older when he was a kid so he didn't have a size advantage).

And Lebron always saw his efforts lead to success because he was so much more talented than everyone else. He doesn't really know what to do when his efforts run into a wall and he defaults to trying to bully through it instead of gritting his teeth, regrouping, not giving up etc.

He always tries to meet difficulty with overwhelming force instead of persistence.

I don't know why you implied that no one criticized Kobe for how he related to teammates. I have no idea where you got that impression.

[PhilBlackson]

Once he went to MIA he changed imo.

[letsgobulls23]

Yes