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Memgrizz0 wrote:

KAT4PREZ wrote:People want this dude to bust so bad lol.

What the hell are you talking about? Everyone in here is drooling over him. Reading comprehension: try it sometime

You don't have to look very far to see tons of posters on this very board predicting failure and screaming about how overrated he is. Multiple threads over the past 10-12 months since his star exploded at Duke or you could just glance at the poll results in this very thread.

So it's highly ironic that you just accused somebody else of having reading comprehension issues.

Why does the title ask if we think he will underwhelm when the only two poll options are bust/not a bust?

Johnny Bball wrote:

LastNameEver wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:
No, he really doesn’t. Especially Kyrie, lol at me being the one kidding themself here.

Yes, he really does.

Uh yeah, he doesn't have handle and quickness of Kyrie Irving or the passing ability. Or his shooting and creation of his own shot at the same level. I won't even talk about Griffin since it might be a good rookie comparison. But you didn't say rookie. You're building him up to be something he's not then you ask if h's going to underwhelm. Well how can he not with this rhetoric.



And ignore the other guy with zero reading comprehension that thinks that I mean he's going to suck.

Do you know what body control is ??? because this crap has nothing to do with it

you just naming off random miscellaneous stuff that nobody even brought up in relation to Zion. If you understood what you were reading in the first place nobody would be suggesting to ignore you're hate fueled drivel.

LastNameEver wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:

LastNameEver wrote:Yes, he really does.

Uh yeah, he doesn't have handle and quickness of Kyrie Irving or the passing ability. Or his shooting and creation of his own shot at the same level. I won't even talk about Griffin since it might be a good rookie comparison. But you didn't say rookie. You're building him up to be something he's not then you ask if h's going to underwhelm. Well how can he not with this rhetoric.



And ignore the other guy with zero reading comprehension that thinks that I mean he's going to suck.

Do you know what body control is ??? because this crap has nothing to do with it

you just naming off random miscellaneous stuff that nobody even brought up in relation to Zion. If you understood what you were reading in the first place nobody would be suggesting to ignore you're hate fueled drivel.

Yes I hate him because I respond honestly when people compare him in past to LBJ or hybrids of Griffin/Irving. Yes, its hate... sure. Stan is more the appropriate term here.

LastNameEver wrote:

Johnny Bball wrote:

LastNameEver wrote:Yes, he really does.

Uh yeah, he doesn't have handle and quickness of Kyrie Irving or the passing ability. Or his shooting and creation of his own shot at the same level. I won't even talk about Griffin since it might be a good rookie comparison. But you didn't say rookie. You're building him up to be something he's not then you ask if h's going to underwhelm. Well how can he not with this rhetoric.



And ignore the other guy with zero reading comprehension that thinks that I mean he's going to suck.

Do you know what body control is ??? because this crap has nothing to do with it

you just naming off random miscellaneous stuff that nobody even brought up in relation to Zion. If you understood what you were reading in the first place nobody would be suggesting to ignore you're hate fueled drivel.

he doesn't watch the guy actively and just likes to strawman and deflect. Arguing with him is a waste of time

Crazy that jnjury concerns are lumped on a guy with no injury history just becsuse he’s a freak

You know you are dominant when people think you are to explosive for human anatomy.


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LastNameEver wrote:Alright, so this kid is displaying Kyrie body control in a 300 lbs body with prime Blake Griffin athleticism.
His vision is better than a lot of guards and he can get to the rim at will because he's stronger than everybody with above average ball security (this surprised me)..

Only suspect thing is his perimeter shooting but we knew that ahead of time.

What are some other critiques that you guys see that could potentially hinder him going forward ?

Oh, he's not going to be a bust, but given expectation he could underwhelm relative to them.

We know nobody is looking forward to getting in his way on the floor, and even in the regular season - we're going to see a whole lot of "ole defense"; but let's see what happens when grown men actually try and how he adapts - how they adapt.

Once upon a time it seemed LeBron was good for 12+ ppg just for showing up and being big/fast/strong/bouncy. Zion could be like that too, but if he's forced to the perimeter without proper spacing he may struggle to fill in those other points; whereas James could attack the rim relentlessly with the ball in his hands and either draw a double team, draw a foul, or get to the rim.

If so ... will Zion start working on post moves? Will the Pels get him in the ball in spots he can make a quick move and get to the rim?

tbd ...

snaquille oatmeal wrote:

Funcrusher wrote:

LastNameEver wrote:People think an usersized big consistently getting shots at the rim is an indictment.

Seriously. Would you rather him take mid-range shots or even threes than the most statistically efficient shot in the game (layups and dunks)? Like, people realize that's essentially Giannis' shot chart, right? Who is a superstar. A. Superstar.

Well if he only has one way to score he will be easy to figure out. Isn’t this issue the same as Simmons?

Simmons averaged 17 ppg on 56% shooting last season, re we sure that he's been figured out completely?

Regardless, you can't say that any two players are exactly alike just because there are some similarities with their jumper. Does Giannis have problems scoring because of a shaky outside shot?

JonFromVA wrote:

LastNameEver wrote:Alright, so this kid is displaying Kyrie body control in a 300 lbs body with prime Blake Griffin athleticism.
His vision is better than a lot of guards and he can get to the rim at will because he's stronger than everybody with above average ball security (this surprised me)..

Only suspect thing is his perimeter shooting but we knew that ahead of time.

What are some other critiques that you guys see that could potentially hinder him going forward ?

Oh, he's not going to be a bust, but given expectation he could underwhelm relative to them.

We know nobody is looking forward to getting in his way on the floor, and even in the regular season - we're going to see a whole lot of "ole defense"; but let's see what happens when grown men actually try and how he adapts - how they adapt.

Once upon a time it seemed LeBron was good for 12+ ppg just for showing up and being big/fast/strong/bouncy. Zion could be like that too, but if he's forced to the perimeter without proper spacing he may struggle to fill in those other points; whereas James could attack the rim relentlessly with the ball in his hands and either draw a double team, draw a foul, or get to the rim.

If so ... will Zion start working on post moves? Will the Pels get him in the ball in spots he can make a quick move and get to the rim?

tbd ...

One thing that stood out was that Gentry noted that they need to get him moving more without the ball.
Doesnt matter how psyically dominant you are, of course NBA defenses will find a way to cut your water off if they have time to prepare, even LeBron had trouble with the likes of of old Jkidd and Boris Diaw within the structure of a team defense.

Thread title doesn't match the poll. He won't be a bust , but his rookie season will be underwhelming to most.

First and foremost the dude needs to get in shape. He looks a good 15-20 pounds heavier than he was at Duke, if he can get down to that 260 area (270 at Duke) I think that is where we would see prime Zion at.

The +/-yesterday is pretty easy to write off and explain. Ingram played bad Iso ball and never got into a good rhythm of when to pick his spots like he did in the 1st game. It looked like Jrue viewed this as a preseason game the way lots of 29 year olds view preseason.

I think Zion is a stud and injury can be the only thing to prevent him from being a stud. With that said, this is still preseason and we are talking about a game he had against the Bulls without their best big man defender. He has to get in shape and get used to the game's speed defensively. I think he's going to be around 20 ppg just from his athleticism and instincts this year. Just think what this dude can look like at 25 years old and in peak shape.

LastNameEver wrote:

JonFromVA wrote:

LastNameEver wrote:Alright, so this kid is displaying Kyrie body control in a 300 lbs body with prime Blake Griffin athleticism.
His vision is better than a lot of guards and he can get to the rim at will because he's stronger than everybody with above average ball security (this surprised me)..

Only suspect thing is his perimeter shooting but we knew that ahead of time.

What are some other critiques that you guys see that could potentially hinder him going forward ?

Oh, he's not going to be a bust, but given expectation he could underwhelm relative to them.

We know nobody is looking forward to getting in his way on the floor, and even in the regular season - we're going to see a whole lot of "ole defense"; but let's see what happens when grown men actually try and how he adapts - how they adapt.

Once upon a time it seemed LeBron was good for 12+ ppg just for showing up and being big/fast/strong/bouncy. Zion could be like that too, but if he's forced to the perimeter without proper spacing he may struggle to fill in those other points; whereas James could attack the rim relentlessly with the ball in his hands and either draw a double team, draw a foul, or get to the rim.

If so ... will Zion start working on post moves? Will the Pels get him in the ball in spots he can make a quick move and get to the rim?

tbd ...

One thing that stood out was that Gentry noted that they need to get him moving more without the ball.
Doesnt matter how psyically dominant you are, of course NBA defenses will find a way to cut your water off if they have time to prepare, even LeBron had trouble with the likes of of old Jkidd and Boris Diaw within the structure of a team defense.

Heh, we're not talking about how much damage Zion can do in the finals yet. There have literally been only a handful of teams talented and disciplined enough to prevent LeBron from dissecting them with simple triple-threat action; and sometimes that was just James struggling to hold up his end of the triple threat by not attacking when he should have, or not being able to sink an open jumper.

I mean, he's already making NBA players look bad.

He is a bowling ball, and 90% of the players in the league are pins to be knocked down. A few guys will slow him down a little, but not many.

It's all about staying healthy. If he does, he's an immediate top 20 player in the league, an eventual top 5 player in the league, and perhaps even a top tier hall of famer.

I'm worried about his knees and back, though. I can't speculate about how they'll hold up, because I've never seen anyone like him before, but maaaaan.... it sure seems like he should drop 20 pounds.

The_Hater wrote:

snaquille oatmeal wrote:

Funcrusher wrote:Seriously. Would you rather him take mid-range shots or even threes than the most statistically efficient shot in the game (layups and dunks)? Like, people realize that's essentially Giannis' shot chart, right? Who is a superstar. A. Superstar.

Well if he only has one way to score he will be easy to figure out. Isn’t this issue the same as Simmons?

Simmons averaged 17 ppg on 56% shooting last season, re we sure that he's been figured out completely?

Regardless, you can't say that any two players are exactly alike just because there are some similarities with their jumper. Does Giannis have problems scoring because of a shaky outside shot?

He does in the playoffs when the game slows down and they take his drives away. You need to have a reliable jumper in this league regardless how big of a freak you are. Not sure why are arguing about this in 2019 and keep bringing a 7 foot near prime Giannis into the conversation.

Hindenburg wrote:

The_Hater wrote:

snaquille oatmeal wrote:Well if he only has one way to score he will be easy to figure out. Isn’t this issue the same as Simmons?

Simmons averaged 17 ppg on 56% shooting last season, re we sure that he's been figured out completely?

Regardless, you can't say that any two players are exactly alike just because there are some similarities with their jumper. Does Giannis have problems scoring because of a shaky outside shot?

He does in the playoffs when the game slows down and they take his drives away. You need to have a reliable jumper in this league regardless how big of a freak you are. Not sure why are arguing about this in 2019 and keep bringing a near prime Giannis into the conversation.

The past 2 playoff seasons spanning 22 games Giannis has averaged 27.5 ppg on a TS% of about 59.0%

If that’s called struggling, then the entire league is apparently struggling to score.

And the previous question was about players with shaky jumpers scoring in volume and Simmons was mentioned. So that’s why I Subsequently mentioned Giannis. It was part of my ‘no two players are exactly alike’ statement

He needs to lose at least 20 lbs and possibly more. He looks even less like a basketball player than prime Shaq and uses his athleticism more than Shaq.

Long term he needs to improve his jumper so that he becomes a more complete player but also so that he can score without putting too much strain on his body.

The thread title and the poll are two different questions. He could certainly "underwhelm" if what is expected is him to walk in the league and dominate/be more dominant than Lebron. etc, without being a bust.

Funcrusher wrote:

snaquille oatmeal wrote:Isn’t his shot chart all within 5 feet from the basket?

And that's a bad thing?

It is for Ben Simmons, apparently...

axeman23 wrote:

Funcrusher wrote:

snaquille oatmeal wrote:Isn’t his shot chart all within 5 feet from the basket?

And that's a bad thing?

It is for Ben Simmons, apparently...

ok, what's your point?