So why is Jayson Tatum held to such a high standard on this forum?

[Edug27]

Because he’s a future star. Next question...

Star? In Europe? Possibly. In China? For sure. In the NBA? Highly unlikely.

Eh. He’ll be a 20+ point scorer in a big market, signed to Nike, advertising tons of brands.. he’s already a fairly big name for his age etc.. If Boston can have decent success in the win/loss column and stay relevant during playoff time, he’ll be a star. Not superstar of course.. but something along the Jimmy Butler/Paul George level... if you consider them “stars”.

[Fencer reregistered]

you seriously don't think the Celts get more national attention than they deserve over the last decade and a half? Let's take the last 5 years, Boston has had a similar track record to the Trail Blazers, yet I don't think any reasonable person on this board would dispute Boston has gotten at LEAST 2x the coverage.

Lol. Blame market size.

Boston is 10th, it's a mid-sized market and FWIW I think the calculation is generous as to what counts as part of the Boston metro area.

The Boston market is basically five states (none of them huge and one of them utterly tiny) plus part of a sixth.

Actually, I think all five of those states started out as part of the same British colony ...

[SmartWentCrazy]

Lol. Blame market size.

Boston is 10th, it's a mid-sized market and FWIW I think the calculation is generous as to what counts as part of the Boston metro area.

The Boston market is basically five states (none of them huge and one of them utterly tiny) plus part of a sixth.

Actually, I think all five of those states started out as part of the same British colony ...

The way the official media market size is calculates is weird for Boston— it includes parts of Vermont [which is far from Boston] but excluded the greater Providence area [which is ~45 minutes from Boston]. If you include the ~500k from the Providence market, Boston jumps to The 4th biggest media market.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_television_markets

[GiannisAnte34]

Because he’s a future star. Next question...

Star? In Europe? Possibly. In China? For sure. In the NBA? Highly unlikely.

Eh. He’ll be a 20+ point scorer in a big market, signed to Nike, advertising tons of brands.. he’s already a fairly big name for his age etc.. If Boston can have decent success in the win/loss column and stay relevant during playoff time, he’ll be a star. Not superstar of course.. but something along the Jimmy Butler/Paul George level... if you consider them “stars”.

Tatum would be fortunate to end up on the Butler / PG13 tier... right now his projection is rich mans Rudy Gay

[Fencer reregistered]

Boston is 10th, it's a mid-sized market and FWIW I think the calculation is generous as to what counts as part of the Boston metro area.

The Boston market is basically five states (none of them huge and one of them utterly tiny) plus part of a sixth.

Actually, I think all five of those states started out as part of the same British colony ...

The way the official media market size is calculates is weird for Boston— it includes parts of Vermont [which is far from Boston] but excluded the greater Providence area [which is ~45 minutes from Boston]. If you include the ~500k from the Providence market, Boston jumps to The 4th biggest media market.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_television_markets

I bet the definition has a lot to do with which local TV stations people are presumed to watch.

But a single team can be the one for many media markets defined that way. E.g., I think the Rockies when they formed had a following that spanned MUCH further than just the Denver media market. Probably they still do.

And of course in the 1950s Bostonians, without an NFL team of their own, were apt to be Giants fans.

[Edug27]

Star? In Europe? Possibly. In China? For sure. In the NBA? Highly unlikely.

Eh. He’ll be a 20+ point scorer in a big market, signed to Nike, advertising tons of brands.. he’s already a fairly big name for his age etc.. If Boston can have decent success in the win/loss column and stay relevant during playoff time, he’ll be a star. Not superstar of course.. but something along the Jimmy Butler/Paul George level... if you consider them “stars”.

Tatum would be fortunate to end up on the Butler / PG13 tier... right now his projection is rich mans Rudy Gay

Part of being a star is being visible, being on teams that are relevant, having your own brand, etc..

So I ask, your Rudy Gay projection is based on what? You think he’ll never make an all star? Be on awful teams during his prime years where he doesn’t make the playoffs? Please explain...

[In SVG We Trust]

Because Celtics fans and media tried to sell us they were the next contenders and a juggernaut team and Brown and Tatum were like Vince Carter and Carmelo in their primes

[GotDaSauce]

It's more like, "why is jayson tatum held to such a high standard by basketball journalists?"

It's because he looks like a prototypical wing as far as height, size and ostensive skillset. However, he's a below average athlete for a wing, that's why his freethrow rate is so low and he settles for threes and long-twos while being elite at neither. If he shot 45% from midrange he'd be an all-star type guy, but he's simply not a very good shooter. He's also not a great ballhandler or passer.

We'll really see what he can do this year. No excuses if he has the talent, but I don't see all-nba. I could see him making an all-star team, but not much more.

He shot over 40% from 3 his rookie year and is shooting 45% from 3 this year.He had a down year last year and still shot mid to high 30%. He is a really good 3 point shooter and I honestly think it should be the majority of his shots rights now since his finishing at the basket is lacking.

[GiannisAnte34]

Eh. He’ll be a 20+ point scorer in a big market, signed to Nike, advertising tons of brands.. he’s already a fairly big name for his age etc.. If Boston can have decent success in the win/loss column and stay relevant during playoff time, he’ll be a star. Not superstar of course.. but something along the Jimmy Butler/Paul George level... if you consider them “stars”.

Tatum would be fortunate to end up on the Butler / PG13 tier... right now his projection is rich mans Rudy Gay

Part of being a star is being visible, being on teams that are relevant, having your own brand, etc..

So I ask, your Rudy Gay projection is based on what? You think he’ll never make an all star? Be on awful teams during his prime years where he doesn’t make the playoffs? Please explain...

By that token Robert Horry was a bonafide star. Nobody cares how much money you make on shoe deals; see Rubio for details.

My Rudy Gay projection is based on his impact in the game of basketball. Not how marketable he is for Nike or how historic of a franchise the Celtics are.

Players who do more with less are generally more respected than those who do less with more; see Kyrie Irving for details.

As of May 2019 - Player comparison stats

Rudy Gay - PPG: 15.6, RPG: 5.3, APG: 1.6, SPG: 1.1, BPG: 1.0, TOV: 2.1, MPG: 32.1 MPG

Jayson Tatum - PPG: 14.8, RPG: 5.5, APG: 1.9, SPG: 1.1, BPG: 0.7, TOV: 1.5, MPG: 30.8

they have almost the exact same PER (15.4 Rudy, 15.2 Tatum)

nearly identical rebounding percentages (Rudy: 9.6 TRB%, Tatum 9.7 TRB%), assist percentage (Rudy: 8.8 AST%, Tatum 9.2 AST%), steal percentage (1.8 vs 1.7), block percentage (2.2% vs 2.0%)

[Karmaloop]

Good, a new day and a new “trash the Celtics” thread.

Miserable souls.

Just because someone's critical of your teams' best player doesn't mean it's a trash the Celtics thread. This is just everything coming full circle. After his rookie year, C's fans were billing as the next great Celtics' player and a future superstar. And he flopped hard based on those expectations last year. The entire offseason C's fans were quick to talk about how bad the situation was last year, and that his numbers would rebound. If you have issues with criticism of C's players, you have to look in the mirror first. Every fanbase overrates their own players. And every time someone criticizes that teams' players, it's not hating.

[itrsteve]

Good, a new day and a new “trash the Celtics” thread.

Miserable souls.

Just because someone's critical of your teams' best player doesn't mean it's a trash the Celtics thread. This is just everything coming full circle. After his rookie year, C's fans were billing as the next great Celtics' player and a future superstar. And he flopped hard based on those expectations last year. The entire offseason C's fans were quick to talk about how bad the situation was last year, and that his numbers would rebound. If you have issues with criticism of C's players, you have to look in the mirror first. Every fanbase overrates their own players. And every time someone criticizes that teams' players, it's not hating.

Oh I don't care about criticizing Tatum as he's not immune to it. There were a bunch of threads that were simultaneously very active (i.e. JB's extension, DA's mismanagement of assets, Celtics Exposed, this thread, etc)... Most of all of them circled back to all say the same exact stuff.

Either way, it looks like GSW is the punching bag for today.

[Karmaloop]

Oh I don't care about criticizing Tatum as he's not immune to it. There were a bunch of threads that were simultaneously very active (i.e. JB's extension, DA's mismanagement of assets, Celtics Exposed, this thread, etc)... Most of all of them circled back to all say the same exact stuff.

Either way, it looks like GSW is the punching bag for today.

How long have we heard about Jaylen Brown about to break out? How long have we heard about Tatum being a budding superstar? How long have we heard about how Danny Ainge was saving up all his significant assets for a superstar? The C's forum is one of the most popular team sub-forums, so they're going to attract a ton of attention.

[Edug27]

Tatum would be fortunate to end up on the Butler / PG13 tier... right now his projection is rich mans Rudy Gay

Part of being a star is being visible, being on teams that are relevant, having your own brand, etc..

So I ask, your Rudy Gay projection is based on what? You think he’ll never make an all star? Be on awful teams during his prime years where he doesn’t make the playoffs? Please explain...

By that token Robert Horry was a bonafide star. Nobody cares how much money you make on shoe deals; see Rubio for details.

My Rudy Gay projection is based on his impact in the game of basketball. Not how marketable he is for Nike or how historic of a franchise the Celtics are.

Players who do more with less are generally more respected than those who do less with more; see Kyrie Irving for details.

As of May 2019 - Player comparison stats

Rudy Gay - PPG: 15.6, RPG: 5.3, APG: 1.6, SPG: 1.1, BPG: 1.0, TOV: 2.1, MPG: 32.1 MPG

Jayson Tatum - PPG: 14.8, RPG: 5.5, APG: 1.9, SPG: 1.1, BPG: 0.7, TOV: 1.5, MPG: 30.8

they have almost the exact same PER (15.4 Rudy, 15.2 Tatum)

nearly identical rebounding percentages (Rudy: 9.6 TRB%, Tatum 9.7 TRB%), assist percentage (Rudy: 8.8 AST%, Tatum 9.2 AST%), steal percentage (1.8 vs 1.7), block percentage (2.2% vs 2.0%)

When I made my initial comment about being a "star", there is more that goes into that than just stats. If Rudy was averaging that same 20, 6 and 3 on a legit playoff team, in a solid market, with solid exposure... He would have been an All Star, had some big playoff moments... and his career would be looked at much differently than it is today.

Rudy is the poster boy for "the player with good stats, but never translated to wins or All Star appearances". He is also the player who never took that "next step".

And while you compare Tatums first 2 seasons to Rudy's and drool over the similarities... I compare Tatums first 2 seasons to Paul Georges first 3 seasons. I think Tatum will take that next step and be a 23-24 pt scorer in his prime, make an All Star appearance, and have big time playoff moments... Thus putting him in that potential star category.

Time shall tell homie. Should be fun though.

[itrsteve]

Oh I don't care about criticizing Tatum as he's not immune to it. There were a bunch of threads that were simultaneously very active (i.e. JB's extension, DA's mismanagement of assets, Celtics Exposed, this thread, etc)... Most of all of them circled back to all say the same exact stuff.

Either way, it looks like GSW is the punching bag for today.

How long have we heard about Jaylen Brown about to break out? How long have we heard about Tatum being a budding superstar? How long have we heard about how Danny Ainge was saving up all his significant assets for a superstar? The C's forum is one of the most popular team sub-forums, so they're going to attract a ton of attention.

That note on the topic count/popularity per each team sub forum piqued my interest.

All I know is that I’m not ready for The Knicks to be good again, we should all count our blessings.

[Coach Carter]

1st impressions are hard to shake

[76ersForLife]

you seriously don't think the Celts get more national attention than they deserve over the last decade and a half? Let's take the last 5 years, Boston has had a similar track record to the Trail Blazers, yet I don't think any reasonable person on this board would dispute Boston has gotten at LEAST 2x the coverage.

Lol. Blame market size.

Boston is 10th, it's a mid-sized market and FWIW I think the calculation is generous as to what counts as part of the Boston metro area.

They won a championship and had 3 hof'ers on their team. Also Celtics,Lakers, 76ers, Knicks etc... are historic NBA franchises so of course they get more media coverage. After Portland wins 17 more championships they will start getting more coverage too.

[themoneyteam2]

Because he’s averaging 22/7/3 on 44.5% FG and 38% 3PT as a 21 yr old all star?

[bisme37]

Star? In Europe? Possibly. In China? For sure. In the NBA? Highly unlikely.

Eh. He’ll be a 20+ point scorer in a big market, signed to Nike, advertising tons of brands.. he’s already a fairly big name for his age etc.. If Boston can have decent success in the win/loss column and stay relevant during playoff time, he’ll be a star. Not superstar of course.. but something along the Jimmy Butler/Paul George level... if you consider them “stars”.

Tatum would be fortunate to end up on the Butler / PG13 tier... right now his projection is rich mans Rudy Gay

ROFL

[MagicBagley18]

Some of these takes are priceless,...

[Duffman100]

He's 21, great size, great motor, can shoot the 3, can handle the ball, great first step, plays great defense.

I mean... what is there not to like? Some bad shot selection?? He's 21.