CJ McCollum estimates 1/3 of players live paycheck to paycheck

[mtron929]

This is a bit shocking. The average salary is almost $8M. I would say, however, that giving anyone that much money, in any walk of life, that early would result in a similar situation...

Using the mean as the average is wrong much better to use the median value

This. I bet the median salary is like 1-2M or something.

If we use all 525 players listed in the ESPN website, the median salary is around 3.37 million dollars.

http://www.espn.com/nba/salaries/_/page/7

If we go with the number provided by CJ of 450 players (assuming we are talking about 450 of the best players), then the median rises to around 4.5 million dollars.

Both of these figures are still crazy high as it would put you somewhere between 99.9 to 99.99 percentile of top salaries in the US.

[mtron929]

A third of NBA players are on minimum contracts or two-way players. And they have to pay agents and taxes and living expenses. This doesn't seem as shocking or deserving of ridicule to me as it seems to for most in this thread.

This is not true. Out of 525 players, #350th highest salary is still at 1.7 million dollars. If we go by the number of 450, then the #300th highest salary is at 2.4 million dollars. There are a lot less players who are on minimum contract than you think.

[dhsilv2]

People act like every player in the NBA is getting at least $15-20 million before taxes even if we only count full time players and not 2 way contracts, I bet the vast majority of players out there make under $3 million a season before taxes.

That is a great deal of money, but it's not like the vast majority of NBA players have insane money. I also will point out it's extremely easy to fall into representation of a level of living there are $350k a year Doctors out there that spend that much each year easily. They have to have the nice car, nice house, nice clothes etc... that **** adds up quick.

Come on, man. For 2019-2020 the average NBA salary is $6,936,154; the median: $2,905,800. The average physician salary is at 225k, with only certain specialists peaking at 300-500k. Compared to the average doctor the average NBA player makes insane money. The league should step up and offer a solution if there are that many people living from paycheck to paycheck.

Yeah but they get taxed way more and your looking at kids vs some of the smartest people in the country who have PHDs.
Some people will always go broke regardless of the money they get. 10mi. 100mil. After they go broke, they learn their lesson.

Way more? The top tax bracket is ~500k plus in the US but it goes from 35-37%. Yes, they also pay more of their income at those higher levels. 350k vs 1 million would be something like an effective rate of 28% vs 33%

[bisme37]

A third of NBA players are on minimum contracts or two-way players. And they have to pay agents and taxes and living expenses. This doesn't seem as shocking or deserving of ridicule to me as it seems to for most in this thread.

This is not true. Out of 525 players, #350th highest salary is still at 1.7 million dollars. If we go by the number of 450, then the #300th highest salary is at 2.4 million dollars. There are a lot less players who are on minimum contract than you think.

Did you count guys on 2-way contracts? There are a couple on every roster. If CJ had those guys in mind when making his statement I think his math is fairly accurate.

[mtron929]

A third of NBA players are on minimum contracts or two-way players. And they have to pay agents and taxes and living expenses. This doesn't seem as shocking or deserving of ridicule to me as it seems to for most in this thread.

This is not true. Out of 525 players, #350th highest salary is still at 1.7 million dollars. If we go by the number of 450, then the #300th highest salary is at 2.4 million dollars. There are a lot less players who are on minimum contract than you think.

Did you count guys on 2-way contracts? There are a couple on every roster. If CJ had those guys in mind when making his statement I think his math is fairly accurate.

I don't think these guys count. Here is a direct quote from CJ.

“I would say out of 450 players… 150 probably are living paycheck to paycheck.”

So we are probably talking about all the players in the union and I don't think he is counting the 2-way contract players.

[bisme37]

This is not true. Out of 525 players, #350th highest salary is still at 1.7 million dollars. If we go by the number of 450, then the #300th highest salary is at 2.4 million dollars. There are a lot less players who are on minimum contract than you think.

Did you count guys on 2-way contracts? There are a couple on every roster. If CJ had those guys in mind when making his statement I think his math is fairly accurate.

I don't think these guys count. Here is a direct quote from CJ.

“I would say out of 450 players… 150 probably are living paycheck to paycheck.”

So we are probably talking about all the players in the union and I don't think he is counting the 2-way contract players.

Ok whatever. At this point I'm not sure if we're mad at NBA players for being bad with money or we're mad at CJ for being bad at math. Just because he said 1/3 doesn't mean it's exactly true.

My point was there are some number of players who don't make as much money as folks would expect and it's not shocking that those guys don't have huge savings accounts. Whether it's a third or a quarter or only a tenth... idk.

[dhsilv2]

A third of NBA players are on minimum contracts or two-way players. And they have to pay agents and taxes and living expenses. This doesn't seem as shocking or deserving of ridicule to me as it seems to for most in this thread.

This is not true. Out of 525 players, #350th highest salary is still at 1.7 million dollars. If we go by the number of 450, then the #300th highest salary is at 2.4 million dollars. There are a lot less players who are on minimum contract than you think.

Did you count guys on 2-way contracts? There are a couple on every roster. If CJ had those guys in mind when making his statement I think his math is fairly accurate.

514 players played during the season..so seems reasonable.

[GregOden]

When I watched the 30 for 30 documentary “Broke”, the combination of bad investment, trusting in the wrong people with their money and their own fancy life style, money can disappear just as quick as they earn it.

Also, taxes play a huuuuuge part as well. Just because the contract said 8 million a year, you’ll probably take home closer to 4 million dollars

How many players actually pay the full income tax? Unless you have absolutely no financial advisers (which makes no sense as most players have agents who are similarly incorporated), I would imagine alot of players would be set to take their income as an LLC and then just pay the pass-through tax rate of 20 percent--assuming they couldn't on top of that reduce a lot of their tax liability to near zero with expensing.

[cdubbz]

I truly wonder how much players spend on fashion every year on stylists as well. There is no chance guys like Kyle Kuzma, Westbrook, etc dress themselves. They wear the clothes maybe once and then who knows.

Quinn Cook ALWAYS wore his Warriors Nike tech fleece outfit almost every game — dude knew not to spend money on drip esp with his income.

[monopoman]

I truly wonder how much players spend on fashion every year on stylists as well. There is no chance guys like Kyle Kuzma, Westbrook, etc dress themselves. They wear the clothes maybe once and then who knows.

Quinn Cook ALWAYS wore his Warriors Nike tech fleece outfit almost every game — dude knew not to spend money on drip esp with his income.

Players also get in trouble by collecting baby mama's with child support and/or helping their friends out from the old days with jobs. That $5 million salary starts getting a lot less if you have an entourage of 4-5 guys your paying salaries for and say 3-4 kids all getting child support payments.

I think people neglect how bad it is to earn this type of money at ages as young as 20 throughout the life of most people they earn their most money late into their life like late 40's or late 30's. Meanwhile these young players get huge salaries that will peter out in most cases when they start hitting their 30's.

[Chris Porter's Hair]

They might make 100 times what some of us make, but in some cases they're bills/cost of living is 100 times more than ours too.

Were you intentionally paraphrasing Patrick Ewing, or was that a glorious coincidence?

[guille_4]

A lot of people see the $10 million salary and think a player get to keep the entire $10 mil. It doesn't work that way. After all the taxes and fees, I would say maybe $3-4 mil goes to the player.

You cant be that ignorant, can you?

The salary distribution in the NBA is right skewed, the average salary doesn't say much for the purpose of this affirmation.

The median salary in 2019/2020 in the NBA is $2.9 Million.

All NBA players pay federal income tax at the highest rate of 37 percent, add state taxes and their effective tax rate may be close to 45% = $1.6 Million per year.

The agent takes an extra 10%, that means that more than 50% of the NBA (who by the way, are much less likely to make a significant amount of out-of-the-court money) = $1.45 Million per year.

That is, more than 1/2 of NBA players live on less than $1.45 Million per year. It's still a **** of money, but it's definitely not that hard to spend, particularly if like many NBA players you come from a poor background and take care of a few people.

NBA agents arent permitted to receive more than 4%, of their client's playing contracts.

90 % of pro athletes are stupid with their money. Always have been, always will be.
A lot of it has to do with being young and showing off for teammates and ho's. I dont feel sorry one bit for someone that makes nba minimum money (510k a season) and is living paycheck to paycheck.
People out here supporting a family, paying a mortgage on 50k and even less

I don't think anyone in this forum feels sorry for them.

I'm just saying that the previous reference point, the mean salary in the NBA (8M) wasn't a valid reference point.

Spending 4M is a lot more difficult than spending 1.5M - although both are outrageous amounts.

[PaulieWal]

A lot of people see the $10 million salary and think a player get to keep the entire $10 mil. It doesn't work that way. After all the taxes and fees, I would say maybe $3-4 mil goes to the player.

How is that any different from what happens in the normal world for the rest of us? When we say we make 75k, after taxes and deductions you might 'only' be getting to keep 55, not the full 75. (just very rough figures BTW)

I don't think anyone assumes that a player earning $10MM a year is getting the full 10 when they themselves don't get to keep their entire salary either.

[Run DLC]

I believe it. A lot of those guys are paying for their encourage/hangers-on rent, car, phone payments as well.

[trickshot]

It's also not just players. I'd wager a number of us in the thread don't have savings worth up to our paychecks. "But yeah if I was making a million I'd be better". No you won't. For most their expenses scale with their income

[foreigngrammar]

Casualties of capitalism. That's all there is to it.

They are the perfect spenders in a **** up system. Some of them will recognize when they hit rock bottom.
In fact, less is more. And that is one thing that will grow from this current crises. At least I hope for that

[LAKESHOW]

Many of these guys have been playin ball since 1st grade. So of course, theyve never had a job before.

[lambchop]

Can't blame em. When they say plan for the worst they don't mean a complete halt of world's economy.

[dhsilv2]

When I watched the 30 for 30 documentary “Broke”, the combination of bad investment, trusting in the wrong people with their money and their own fancy life style, money can disappear just as quick as they earn it.

Also, taxes play a huuuuuge part as well. Just because the contract said 8 million a year, you’ll probably take home closer to 4 million dollars

How many players actually pay the full income tax? Unless you have absolutely no financial advisers (which makes no sense as most players have agents who are similarly incorporated), I would imagine alot of players would be set to take their income as an LLC and then just pay the pass-through tax rate of 20 percent--assuming they couldn't on top of that reduce a lot of their tax liability to near zero with expensing.

I think you'd be shocked how many don't or how bad some advisers are. But more importantly, what are they expensing through this LLC? I'm sure there are some nice loopholes but ultimately they're getting a pay check with withholding as it is personal income and then from there they're buying kids clothing, cars, jewelry, houses, etc...not sure how they'd get their taxable liability to zero all be it, I'm no tax accountant.

[lobosloboslobos]

This means that the NBA/NBPA is failing. There needs to be a lot more forced savings for these players.

yeah i've thought this for years. how they haven't implemented a forced savings for their pension of maybe 25% for all players under the age of maybe 26 or 27 is unbelievable to me. how many guys who made 40 million need to go broke before they do this?