Is Michael Jordan the Greatest Team Sports Athlete of All Time?

[TheBallsDeeper]

Thread title probably needs to be changed to "Greatest North American Athlete".

I'm not aware of any player in any sport that has been so far ahead of every other player than Don Bradman. Unlike all of these other sports, there is never any argument as to who is the greatest cricketer of all time - it's The Don - but most Americans seem to think that the world ends at their borders.

[DaPessimist]

Gretzky is #1.

[twyzted]

How can you be the best TEAM sport athlete while berating those around you, physically assaulting your own teammates, and engaging in destructive behavior both inside and outside of the team environment while burning bridges along the way?

MJ was a self-absorbed, "me-first" ****. I don't really see how it's debatable for those who are knowledgeable on the man.

Did you read the op? Did he ask who was the best teammate?

Is Jordan the Greatest Team Sports Athlete of All Time?

Babe Ruth
Wayne Gretzky
Tom Brady
Joe Montana
Jerry Rice
Jim Brown
Bo Jackson
Pele’
Maradona

There have been some legendary players in team sports throughout history that have completely revolutionized the game and changed the culture of the sport they play.

Michael Jordan likely had the greatest impact, more than any other athlete in history. Everyone wanted to be like Mike; his swagger, the way he played the game, the way he moved, the dunks, the buzz he created was phenomenal.

He revolutionized the game by showcasing how dominant a guard be. The cultural impact was huge from the low top shoes, to the gold chain, shorts being lower to the knee, etc. Jordan is not only the GOAT in basketball but all of team sports. Thoughts?

1. Jordan
2. Ruth
3. Gretzky
4. Pele’

No he did not so take your hate somewhere else

The context of the OP and thread title literally says, "Is Michael Jordan the Greatest TEAM Sports Athlete of All Time?".

Hate my ass. I'm old enough to have viewed MJ throughout his entire career, acknowledge him as the GOAT, and still don't succumb to the deity status some insist on putting him on.

Yes in the context that is he the greatest athlete who played a sport that is played in teams not if he is the greatest teammate. And do you really think the stars of teams are not thinking about themselfs?
How many times has lebron tried or traded his teammates 2? More?
Didnt kd, lebron, shaq leave their teams to sign elsewhere? Some did it more than once.
How many players did Alex Ferguson sell because of books or other stupid reason, he kicked a boot into the face of his star player. Is he then not one of the greatest managers of all time?
How videos of zlatan kicking the head of his teammates in interviews can you find?
So by your logic none of those people should be thought of as great at their sport because they are human?

[infinite11285]

Did you read the op? Did he ask who was the best teammate?



No he did not so take your hate somewhere else

The context of the OP and thread title literally says, "Is Michael Jordan the Greatest TEAM Sports Athlete of All Time?".

Hate my ass. I'm old enough to have viewed MJ throughout his entire career, acknowledge him as the GOAT, and still don't succumb to the deity status some insist on putting him on.

Yes in the context that is he the greatest athlete who played a sport that is played in teams not if he is the greatest teammate. And do you really think the stars of teams are not thinking about themselfs?
How many times has lebron tried or traded his teammates 2? More?
Didnt kd, lebron, shaq leave their teams to sign elsewhere? Some did it more than once.
How many players did Alex Ferguson sell because of books or other stupid reason, he kicked a boot into the face of his star player. Is he then not one of the greatest managers of all time?
How videos of zlatan kicking the head of his teammates in interviews can you find?
So by your logic none of those people should be thought of as great at their sport because they are human?

Your post is nothing more than drivel and deflection.

I never inferred any particular athlete was the greatest team player of all time. You, on the other hand, went out on the limb to say MJ is undeniably the greatest TEAM player of all time. With that said, MJ is the topic of our discussion and his OWN past teammates have come out, as recently as a few days ago, to detail what's being portrayed in, "The Last Dance" is tantamount to propaganda. MJ is widely viewed as a jerk amongst his peers and contemporaries. But, I guess you know more than them, right?

[Winsome Gerbil]

Whoever pulled out Jordan, Ruth, Gretzky and Pele got the right names from the list. Each to this day probably the most iconic name in his sport's history.

After that it becomes a question of what you are looking for. The fact is that while Ruth and Pele almost invented the modern iterations of their sports, and are legends because of it, it's highly unlikely they are actually the BEST of all time at their respective sports.

Or are you looking at it as overall dominance?

Or are you looking at it as iconic stature/cultural reach far beyond their sport (that's Pele and Michael, and a guy like Muhammed Ali from another sport).

Or...

[sule]

True, but in terms of global impact and culture he’s not as high as Jordan, Pele and Ruth.

Gretzky statistically blows the 2nd greatest hockey player out of the water, but just like Wilt we shouldn’t focus only on the numbers. Gretzky is the greatest hockey player of all time, but Lemieux, Orr, & Howe aren’t far behind in terms of dominance and impact on the game.

Totally agree with your take. I'm actually one of those people who loved mario lemieux and he will always be the best hockey player to me.

If we went by stats only then Kareem/wilt could be considered better than jordan.

Wilt is more a Howie Morenz than Wayne. Dominate in an era where the sport is and league is still new. Wilts playoff stats also drop drastically. Jordan is tied for highest PPG ever and is 11 PPG higher than Wilt in the playoffs. Jordan's stats are just as impressive as Wilts and Kareem's are more because of longevity. Gretzky was winning scoring titles by 80 plus **** points. He has 9 heart trophies. 4 more than Howe and and 5 more than Mario. He is the only player to break 200 points and he did it 4 freaking times. He has more assists than the next highest guy has points. He also undeniably had a much bigger impact on Hockey than Mario or Howe combined. Him getting traded to LA completely changed the NHL forever. Wilt is in no way close to the statistical dominance that Gretzky had. Hell Bill Russell won more MVPs than Wilt did in that era.

Mario and Howe are VERY far behind Gretzky in dominance and impact and its not even close. We saw prime Mario on the same team and line as Gretzky and as great as Mario was, Gretzky was clearly the better player. The only player that is close to Gretzky's dominance in Hockey is Bobby Orr (and MAYBE Dominik Hasek) but he had his career cut short

You are really downplaying the impact Gretzky had in Hockey. He didn't have the global and culture impact as Jordan, Pele and Ruth because Hockey is not as popular as baseball, basketball and soccer. But he easily meant as much to Hockey as those three did to there sports, but he was way more dominate

The Gretzky trade and his influence on the game is the reason why the NHL has so many markets in the U.S.

And he came into the league a good 50-60 years after it was established. There were enough legendary players to keep the game strong. For context with the NBA, that's the equivalent of a player of Gretzky's level of dominance basically entering the league in 2000 and completely destroying all the records of players that came before him.

People point to Wilt about stats, but Wilt was in the league about 15-20 years after it was established. That's basically one generation of players.

[twyzted]

The context of the OP and thread title literally says, "Is Michael Jordan the Greatest TEAM Sports Athlete of All Time?".

Hate my ass. I'm old enough to have viewed MJ throughout his entire career, acknowledge him as the GOAT, and still don't succumb to the deity status some insist on putting him on.

Yes in the context that is he the greatest athlete who played a sport that is played in teams not if he is the greatest teammate. And do you really think the stars of teams are not thinking about themselfs?
How many times has lebron tried or traded his teammates 2? More?
Didnt kd, lebron, shaq leave their teams to sign elsewhere? Some did it more than once.
How many players did Alex Ferguson sell because of books or other stupid reason, he kicked a boot into the face of his star player. Is he then not one of the greatest managers of all time?
How videos of zlatan kicking the head of his teammates in interviews can you find?
So by your logic none of those people should be thought of as great at their sport because they are human?

Your post is nothing more than drivel and deflection.

I never inferred any particular athlete was the greatest team player of all time; you, on the other hand went on the limb to say MJ is undeniably the greatest team player of all time. With that said, MJ is the topic of our discussion and his OWN past teammates have come out, as recently as a few days ago, to detail what's being portrayed in, "The Last Dance" is tantamount to propaganda. MJ is widely viewed as a jerk amongst his peers and contemporaries. But, I guess you know more than them, right?

No what you are doing is deflection not what i did was explain what the topic off the op was.

Then i gave examples of other star players not behaving nicely. You think lonzo, ingram, kuzma liked what went down last year about the trade? Do you think they were happy that their idol wanted to exchange them for more help?

And im pretty sure that im not the only one who think Jordan is the greatest basketball player of all time. I watched a pod cast with bill cartright, ron harper, craig hodges and horace grant and they said that he pushed his teammates but was not an **** to the majority of his teammates. And jordan and his era did more for basketball and the nba than you can imagine. Basketball was not among the biggest sports in the world before 90s basketball and after 00s its not among the most popular sports.

So the topic of the tread was NOT who was the best teammate in sports but it was "Is Michael Jordan the Greatest Team Sports Athlete of All Time?"
meaning was he the greatest athlete who played a sport that is played in teams how can you not understand that? So take your hate elsewhere

:lol: i dont care what media says. He is absolutly the best basketball player ever and there is no other athlete who comes close to how he made nba a global game watched by people around the world.

Where do i say he is the best teammate or team player???????

[Egg Nog]

Two perspectives in this thread:

"Greatest athlete" = most athletic
"Greatest athlete" = greatest player

The thread is about the SECOND one, guys...not about how much Wayne Gretzky can bench press.


...and yes, the answer is Gretzky. Wayne Gretzky was better at hockey relative to all other hockey players than Jordan was at basketball or Pele was at soccer, etc.

[Chuck Diesel]

Babe Ruth was a much better pound for pound athlete than Michael Jordan. Also more competitive.

[Triples333]

Two perspectives in this thread:

"Greatest athlete" = most athletic
"Greatest athlete" = greatest player

The thread is about the SECOND one, guys...not about how much Wayne Gretzky can bench press.


...and yes, the answer is Gretzky. Wayne Gretzky was better at hockey relative to all other hockey players than Jordan was at basketball or Pele was at soccer, etc.

Hockey is not big enough for the answer to be Gretzky

I was alive during the peak fame of both of them. Jordan was tiers - TIERS - above the Great One. And everybody knows this.

I would also argue Super Mario was far closer to as good as peak Gretzky than anybody MJ played with at hoops.

[Impuniti]

Is Jordan the Greatest Team Sports Athlete of All Time?

Babe Ruth
Wayne Gretzky
Tom Brady
Joe Montana
Jerry Rice
Jim Brown
Bo Jackson
Pele’
Maradona

There have been some legendary players in team sports throughout history that have completely revolutionized the game and changed the culture of the sport they play.

Michael Jordan likely had the greatest impact, more than any other athlete in history. Everyone wanted to be like Mike; his swagger, the way he played the game, the way he moved, the dunks, the buzz he created was phenomenal.

He revolutionized the game by showcasing how dominant a guard be. The cultural impact was huge from the low top shoes, to the gold chain, shorts being lower to the knee, etc. Jordan is not only the GOAT in basketball but all of team sports. Thoughts?

1. Jordan
2. Ruth
3. Gretzky
4. Pele’

Maybe change the title to "In America" because absolutely nobody gives a **** about either #2 or #3 world wide.

[Flopper]

I don't disagree that Gretzy has a significant gap over his peers, but I'm reluctant to give the nod to a hockey player simply because the global talent pool for the sport is much smaller than that of soccer, basketball, and event baseball to a certain extent. How different would the NHL be if hockey was accessible/affordable to people in all climates and economic backgrounds in the same way other sports are?

[Egg Nog]

Two perspectives in this thread:

"Greatest athlete" = most athletic
"Greatest athlete" = greatest player

The thread is about the SECOND one, guys...not about how much Wayne Gretzky can bench press.


...and yes, the answer is Gretzky. Wayne Gretzky was better at hockey relative to all other hockey players than Jordan was at basketball or Pele was at soccer, etc.

Hockey is not big enough for the answer to be Gretzky

I was alive during the peak fame of both of them. Jordan was tiers - TIERS - above the Great One. And everybody knows this.

I would also argue Super Mario was far closer to as good as peak Gretzky than anybody MJ played with at hoops.

This thread isn't about peak fame, biggest marketing budget, or largest cultural influence.

...and I disagree on Lemieux being that close to Gretzky although he was arguably as elite of a goal-scorer as Gretzky or possibly even marginally better.

[Egg Nog]

I don't disagree that Gretzy has a significant gap over his peers, but I'm reluctant to give the nod to a hockey player simply because the global talent pool for the sport is much smaller than that of soccer, basketball, and event baseball to a certain extent. How different would the NHL be if hockey was accessible/affordable to people in all climates and economic backgrounds in the same way other sports are?

I mean, the broad-scale hypothetical NBA talent pool is pretty small because hardly anybody is tall enough. Should we just say it's Pele?

Babe Ruth was a much better pound for pound athlete than Michael Jordan. Also more competitive.

Let's hear your argument for "more competitive than Michael Jordan"...

[Chuck Diesel]

I don't disagree that Gretzy has a significant gap over his peers, but I'm reluctant to give the nod to a hockey player simply because the global talent pool for the sport is much smaller than that of soccer, basketball, and event baseball to a certain extent. How different would the NHL be if hockey was accessible/affordable to people in all climates and economic backgrounds in the same way other sports are?

I mean, the broad-scale hypothetical NBA talent pool is pretty small because hardly anybody is tall enough. Should we just say it's Pele?

Babe Ruth was a much better pound for pound athlete than Michael Jordan. Also more competitive.

Let's hear your argument for "more competitive than Michael Jordan"...

When the Babe walked into a restaurant & spotted the best pitcher of his era (Hopscotch O’Sullivan) eating a 32 oz ribeye & smoking a cigar, Ruth ordered a 64 oz & lit up TWO cigars at once! Legend.

[ScotlandRed]

Messi doesn't belong in that group.

Why would the greatest football player ever not belong in that group?

[Schiltzenberger]

1. I love how 99% of the greatest athletes ever seem to have been born in America.
2. The OP asked about greatest athlete in a team sport..... why all the talk about cultural impact or global recognition?
3. I agree with the other international users, outside of of America no one gives a flying F about MLB, NFL or NHL...... although that is part of the cultural impact/global recognition thing, which really shouldn't even matter when discussing a best athlete.
4. It's an impossible task, NBA fans can't even compare eras of basketball sensibly.... this topic compares different sports and their different eras.

[C3H6N6O6]

We talking "athlete" or having the most team success? How on earth is Babe Ruth included?

Federer is the greatest tennis player in history and is still top 3 at the age of 36. He's the most graceful athlete I've ever seen. His has elite level hand eye coordination, lateral movement, anticipation, clutch performance, stamina...and yes some hops. I would put him up there with Gretzky, LeBron, Jordan and over guys like Vince Carter who have incredible vertical games but, but not the soft hands, dribbling etc.

Except Fed is definitely not the consensus #1 like some of these other players. He has a losing record against his two biggest competitors (Djokovic and Nadal), dominated early in a fairly weak era of Tennis, and doesn't have the supplementary achievements like some of his peers (Golden Masters and season peaks like Novak for example).

His only claim to fame is his Grand Slam wins at the moment, and if it wasn't for COVID, Nadal probably goes to tie him since he's at 19, and Novak is close behind at 17 (Federer has 20). While you can make the argument, it's far from fact, and will probably lean more AWAY from him being the Tennis GOAT than towards it.

But popularity? Probably.

Nadal is the greatest clay court player of all time. 12 of his 19 are the French Open, where's he's basically unbeatable. He can't really be argued as the GOAT. His claim to fame honestly is the 19 Grand Slams and the H2H winning percentage against Federer which isn't really that impressive anymore since Federer has seemingly figured him out and has been beating him more times than not lately (he's won 6 of their last 7 matches).

GOAT is between Federer and Djokovic imo. They're the two most well-rounded players I've ever seen. Djokovic has been more dominant in the last decade, but at the same time, he's younger and came up as Federer aged. I think I would take a peak Federer over a peak Djokovic, but it's splitting hairs.

and yet Federer has only won 1 French open. How is such a well-rounded player who is the GOAT right now only a 1 time French Open Champion?
Winning 7 outside the clay shows that Nadal is well rounded too. Young Nadal beat peak Federer at Wimbledon. I can bet you that Federer will never do that to Nadal at French Open.

[C3H6N6O6]

1 out of a 1000 people know about Jordan in India.
5 out of 10 people know about Pele in India.
8 out of 10 people know Messi/Ronaldo in India.
This is in a country that doesn't play a lot of football.

China loves Basketball now but I am not kidding when I say that Kobe has had more impact there than Jordan. Even then Football(soccer) players like Messi and Ronaldo just as well known. Before Basketball exploded in China it wasn't even a competition. Football players were a lot more famous.

Americans keep believing what their sports network keep feeding them. Jordan at his peak was known by less than half the people who knew Pele or Maradona. Most of the population at that time was/is in third world countries. China and India preferred Football. Basketball wasn't even close.

I don't like Football so it is not like I am a fan boy. I prefer both NBA and NFL over any football league in the world. I am just telling you about the world outside US.

[chitownsalesmen]

When you look at Jerry Rice's statistics and see how far ahead of every-other receiver he is, then when you consider how much harder passing/receiving yardage was when he played, it seems irresponsible to even consider anyone else was ever better than Jerry Rice.

The problem with this question is fans of every specific sport are going to rally around their handful of guys who are at the top of their respective sports. I have absolutely no idea who was the best soccer player of all time, of the only sports I can even sorta reasonable say I know about, basketball, football and I guess baseball to some extent, its kinda hard to argue the absolute statistical dominance of three men, Rice as I already mentioned, Chamberlain in basketball and Ruth in baseball. I hear that Gretzky is a similar case in hockey but I don't understand hockey at all so I'm strictly not qualified to comment on that sport in any heavy capacity, along with pretty much all the other sports.

Now I know around here it's not very popular to have anyone ahead of Jordan but if you just look at the numbers Wilt was easily the most dominate individually but in terms of a total resume I have Kareem and Jordan ahead of Wilt and about a dead heat with LeBron presently and I expect to eventually have LeBron comfortably ahead of Wilt and into the top tier of all time NBA players with Kareem/Jordan.

Gun to my head, I say Jerry Rice as i've already said his numbers are far far ahead of everyone else and I know for a fact if he played in the modern era his numbers would be even better, when I consider Wilt and Ruth I have to at least consider how they would fair in the modern era. Wilt would still be amazing, still have a chance at being better, but I have a little bit of hesitation based on how much more dominate he would be on the average player today versus how dominate he was in his era, but then again he would also be playing in a better spaced floor, a lot more offensively favored rule set, and their are videos of wilt hitting 3 point range hook shots, I have no doubt wilt would be easily, easily the best play in todays NBA, its a matter of by how much he would be the best player today with better training and nutritional information available to him, and wilt was a noted gym rat so who knows how great wilts genetic potential could have reached with all the modern advantages.

Really, this question is more opinion then objective comparison because its already difficult to compare players in the same sport across eras let along compare players from different sports and eras, rule changes, technological advances, etc.