Gobert has to be the most overrated perennial DPOY contender in recent history

[Mickey8]

He needs to work on his offensive skills to at least bother a bit ultra talented offensive center , all he can do is to dunk assisted ball.

[goober]

He needs to work on his offensive skills to at least bother a bit ultra talented offensive center , all he can do is to dunk assisted ball.

Creating your own offense =/= elite offensive player

Just because Rudy cannot create his own offense does not mean he isn’t an elite offensive player. How many times do we have to repeat this!!!!!!!!!!

[BFitzMoney]

Gobert is a really bad defender. Cannot defend in space, get roasted in pick and rolls. He can't even guard the post against elite post guys like Embiid.

Anthony Davis should have gotten both of the DpotY's that Rudy was given. Hell, even give Oladipo the one.

Wow, so you took a terrible premise and went to the extreme worst take possible with it. You don't think Gobert is overrated. You actually think he's a bad defender.

Great take. So exactly why is he in the NBA getting paid that huge contract? For his offensive prowess? Or you just have a better understanding of basketball than the Utah Jazz. Yeah that must be it.

[dygaction]

And it's purely off physicality. Seeing him get bullied by 20 year old Zion( who at his young is bullying majority of the league to be fair) then whining to the refs and media was pretty pathetic. He then follows it up by getting bullied by Embiid.

Great shotblocker/ rim protecter but he's pretty much neutralized by any skilled bruiser. He benefits playing in a very offensive friendly, small ball league where most Cs are really PFs or similar build. Couldn't imagine ever seeing the Ben's, Mutombos, Dwights, Alonzos getting pillaged like Gobert does. Sorry not sorry.

Being bullied by Zion and Embiid is like being bullied by Barkley and Shaq in the 90s, nothing to be ashamed of. Not like Mutombo stopped Shaq in the finals or DRob stopped Dream in their h2h matchups.

[Mickey8]

He needs to work on his offensive skills to at least bother a bit ultra talented offensive center , all he can do is to dunk assisted ball.

Creating your own offense =/= elite offensive player

Just because Rudy cannot create his own offense does not mean he isn’t an elite offensive player. How many times do we have to repeat this!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know how he's an elite offensive player where he can only dunk the ball assisted by his teammates, he cant draw the fouls by creating for himself on the offense , playing back to the basket or driving the ball, at least to put those talented offensive bigs in the foul trouble , to make some pressure on them , He got no offensive moves, none.

[RyderMike]

..wrong thread

[dhsilv2]

No I want a versatile defender to win DPOY because I think Simmons defense is effective against a far larger number of opposing players in the NBA. I think that means something. Adaptability matters. The options it gives the team with that player are endless. When Rudy was getting destroyed by Embiid last night, what other options did the Jazz have? You literally can't move him onto anyone else.

The problem is you're not thinking about how the game is played. You don't guard a man. You guard a team. Gobert reduces the other team's scoring more consistently than simmons. Basketball isn't a series of matchups, it's two teams of 5 people competing. You want to stop a 30 point a game scorer? Well, you rarely can do that, but if you want to do it, you double team.

Also did Embiid really destroy Gobert? He averages 30 a game in 33 minutes on 64.6% TS and 3.3 assists. Embiid played 6 more minutes than his average and scored 40 vs 30 and did so on 61.1% TS with 3 assists. He picked up his volume just a bit and was less efficient than normally. That's more or less what he's been doing to the whole league. It wasn't some kinda of really special game.

By your own evaluation, wouldn't that make gobert an average defender?

If you're an average man defender and the best off ball rim protector in the game. You're 99 times out of 100 the best defender in the game.

But I didn't watch the game. Were the Jazz playing Embiid mostly straight up? If so holding a guy to below average efficiency would be incredible defense on an MVP level guy. If they were hard doubling then we'd have to judge the system and double.

[skones]

Just the premise of this thread is hilarious and I can't get over it. Do people really think elite defensive players just take every single player out of the game and never ever get beat? Like are you **** serious?

Utah Def Rank since establishing himself as a full time starter:
20-21 3rd
19-20 13th
18-19 2nd
17-18 2nd
16-17 3rd
15-16 7th

That's dominance, and it's really all you need to know that anyone thinks he's an "overrated perennial DPOY" is full of hot air.

[Tykross]

He needs to work on his offensive skills to at least bother a bit ultra talented offensive center , all he can do is to dunk assisted ball.

Creating your own offense =/= elite offensive player

Just because Rudy cannot create his own offense does not mean he isn’t an elite offensive player. How many times do we have to repeat this!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know how he's an elite offensive player where he can only dunk the ball assisted by his teammates, he cant draw the fouls by creating for himself on the offense , playing back to the basket or driving the ball, at least to put those talented offensive bigs in the foul trouble , to make some pressure on them , He got no offensive moves, none.

Watch on YouTube

[MrBigShot]

I think people just see that Gobert is a multiple time DPOY and expect his defense impact that we've seen from guys like Dwight, Ben Wallace, Hakeem ect...but the reality is there are no big men with that level of defense impact in today's game. Gobert is still a really amazing defender and worthy DPOY in today's NBA. It's not his fault there's not much competition.

[Hipster Doofus]

Proud parents last night.

[HeartBreakKid]

Gobert is awesome. He's just more of a team defender than a 1-on-1 guy. It's why I want to see Simmons win DPOY though. He can't protect the rim, but his versatility is unparalleled. Even he gets cooked by smaller guards 1-on-1 from time to time though.

So you want a worse defender to get DPOY because you enjoy man to man defense more?

No I want a versatile defender to win DPOY because I think Simmons defense is effective against a far larger number of opposing players in the NBA. I think that means something. Adaptability matters. The options it gives the team with that player are endless. When Rudy was getting destroyed by Embiid last night, what other options did the Jazz have? You literally can't move him onto anyone else.

You certainly can move Rudy to someone else, and if Simmons was the anchor for the Jazz what would change? Embiid would destroy Simmons even worse.

[primecougar]

The problem is you're not thinking about how the game is played. You don't guard a man. You guard a team. Gobert reduces the other team's scoring more consistently than simmons. Basketball isn't a series of matchups, it's two teams of 5 people competing. You want to stop a 30 point a game scorer? Well, you rarely can do that, but if you want to do it, you double team.

Also did Embiid really destroy Gobert? He averages 30 a game in 33 minutes on 64.6% TS and 3.3 assists. Embiid played 6 more minutes than his average and scored 40 vs 30 and did so on 61.1% TS with 3 assists. He picked up his volume just a bit and was less efficient than normally. That's more or less what he's been doing to the whole league. It wasn't some kinda of really special game.

By your own evaluation, wouldn't that make gobert an average defender?

If you're an average man defender and the best off ball rim protector in the game. You're 99 times out of 100 the best defender in the game.

But I didn't watch the game. Were the Jazz playing Embiid mostly straight up? If so holding a guy to below average efficiency would be incredible defense on an MVP level guy. If they were hard doubling then we'd have to judge the system and double.

No you said embid scored 40 instead of 30 and his efficiency dropped slightly. If he roughly got his season average, that would make gobert a league average defender. I don't think he's league avg but that's what you're saying. A perennial DPOY candidate should fare a bit better than league average.

[primecougar]

Gobert is very over rated. He struggles with his 1v1 matchups and struggles in the pnr against guards in the playoffs. iirc the year he won dpoy, the rockets were happy to face the jazz because they knew they could get gobert out of the game.
It also doesn't help that he's a very limited offensive player.
If you look at his stats over the past 4 post seasons, his defensive impacts drops significantly. If anyone is interested, I can post his numbers that he's not a guy you can rely on in the playoffs.

lol

Read on Twitter

Yes a youtube highlight reel of blocks is definite proof. Goodjob.

Gobert defensive impact over the past 4 seasons vs regular season

In regular season
Defensive box +/- 2.2
Def player impact 4.4 (1st in nba)
Def net rating (+3.74)

Now avg of the last 4 post seasons
Defensive box +/- 1.5
Defensive player impact +/- 0.93 (41st in nba)
Def net rating (-7.49)

Kevin durant also said the same thing. He said gobert gets played off the court in the playoffs because he can't guard pnr.

[XTC]

I don't want to invoke the "c word" on here, but if your only way of analyzing defense is matchups/man to man/on-ball... you're a casual. (i'm sorry lord they made me say it, I promise I won't do it again.).

Gobert was never special because of his man-to-man defense. The guy came into the league at 230lbs, he was never built to bang. Gobert is special because he's got ridiculously long arms, has great anticipation, and is graceful in his rotations. Gobert's job is to protect the paint and make life hard for the entire other team, not just one guy. 1 on 1 post defense... isn't a special skill. Andrea Bargnani was a pretty sick 1 on 1 post defender... and he's one of the worst defensive 5s we've ever seen play 30mpg.

Ben Wallace was my favorite player in the early 2000s, and while he was a really good one-on-one defender, that's not why he was winning DPOY. He won DPOY because of his "no-fly zone"; he made it really hard to get easy shots in the paint. Wallace wasn't matchup-proof either. Just like Rudy is skinny, Ben was short. He'd rough up KG and Duncan, but sometimes they'd just turn and shoot. Rudy can still bother Jokic/Embiid with that length, but they're going to try to body him every chance they get.

Believe it or not, DPOY is not an award for: "how well you matchup with the best players at your position". It's about overall defensive impact. Rudy Gobert is a defensive monster. Utah is a top 3 defense this year, despite having a more offensive slanted roster.

Damn homie just ended the thread just like that

The same posters calling out Gobert are the same guys who think Mourning, Dwight, and Ben Wallace where not great defenders because they got dunked on

I wish I could give this post a +100

[dhsilv2]

By your own evaluation, wouldn't that make gobert an average defender?

If you're an average man defender and the best off ball rim protector in the game. You're 99 times out of 100 the best defender in the game.

But I didn't watch the game. Were the Jazz playing Embiid mostly straight up? If so holding a guy to below average efficiency would be incredible defense on an MVP level guy. If they were hard doubling then we'd have to judge the system and double.

No you said embid scored 40 instead of 30 and his efficiency dropped slightly. If he roughly got his season average, that would make gobert a league average defender. I don't think he's league avg but that's what you're saying. A perennial DPOY candidate should fare a bit better than league average.

If that happened one on one, then that would be VERY good because MVPs are never guarded one on one. That's not how basketball is played.

[primecougar]

He needs to work on his offensive skills to at least bother a bit ultra talented offensive center , all he can do is to dunk assisted ball.

Creating your own offense =/= elite offensive player

Just because Rudy cannot create his own offense does not mean he isn’t an elite offensive player. How many times do we have to repeat this!!!!!!!!!!

Oh god, you think gobert is an elite offensive player. God have mercy. He's the definition of garbage scorer where he can only scorer off lobs, dump offs, and garbage points.

[CIN-C-STAR]

If the Pels want to post Zion 20 times a game, and the 76ers post Embiid 25 times a game, other teams will welcome it.
Even if they put up good numbers, if you dont have to send doubles and can stay home on shooters, it's not going to kill you in the modern NBA.
Gobert's value is as a help rim protector for the entire team defense, which is way more valuable than being an elite 1-on-1 post defender.
This post was pretty bad. It's like people who think the best defenders always have the most steals/blocks. That's not really how defense works.

If you dont send double, they would put up 50 pnts on 60% shooting. cmon dude...

Embiid might. Zion wouldnt.
And you can shade a guy without sending doubles. You can help situationally and/or trap situationally without having called for a double team.
Not many teams are sending hard doubles into the post even against elite post players. I see it against Jokic and Embiid sometimes, and that's really about it at the moment.

[primecougar]

If you're an average man defender and the best off ball rim protector in the game. You're 99 times out of 100 the best defender in the game.

But I didn't watch the game. Were the Jazz playing Embiid mostly straight up? If so holding a guy to below average efficiency would be incredible defense on an MVP level guy. If they were hard doubling then we'd have to judge the system and double.

No you said embid scored 40 instead of 30 and his efficiency dropped slightly. If he roughly got his season average, that would make gobert a league average defender. I don't think he's league avg but that's what you're saying. A perennial DPOY candidate should fare a bit better than league average.

If that happened one on one, then that would be VERY good because MVPs are never guarded one on one. That's not how basketball is played.

That's a fair. I don't watch every sixer game so idk how often he gets double teamed compared to last night.
Idk if stats like those exist cause that would be interesting to look at

[dhsilv2]

No you said embid scored 40 instead of 30 and his efficiency dropped slightly. If he roughly got his season average, that would make gobert a league average defender. I don't think he's league avg but that's what you're saying. A perennial DPOY candidate should fare a bit better than league average.

If that happened one on one, then that would be VERY good because MVPs are never guarded one on one. That's not how basketball is played.

That's a fair. I don't watch every sixer game so idk how often he gets double teamed compared to last night.
Idk if stats like those exist cause that would be interesting to look at

You'd think sportsvue data would have it but I don't recall seeing such a data set.

That said others did post embiid's stats vs gobert in last nights game when gobert was listed as the primary defender and it was pretty good by Gobert, but yeah I'm not sure about double team stats.