David Griffin Needs To Be Fired

[JonFromVA]

fwiw, the Pelicans starting lineup has been good. Not pretty good, not elite, but good ... but not even close to what they had with Holiday and Favors last season. So, basically they've taken a big step backwards in the talent they're putting on the floor AND they're doing a bad job maximizing what they have.

[theonlyclutch]

Yeah ok. It wasn’t until recently that we all found out that Zion was a capable offense initiator in the NBA.

uhm, maybe you should take a look at the Zion thread i started on THIS board back in 2018 about how he's a generational prospect, before he even took a single dribble at Duke.

What’s that supposed to tell me? A lot of people had Zion pegged as a generational prospect, including me. It doesn’t mean you’re sure on how to use these guys before day one. How could if you haven’t seen them play a large enough sample size against NBA talent? That’s why you usually have to try different things before figuring it out.

It didn't take much tape at Duke to know that Zion was a generational prospect because of his overwhelming athleticism and strength, which he used to dominate as a paint scorer. Everybody knew he'd be short for a big, everybody knew his jumper isn't gonna be much good. There are some things that were TBD (defense, ball-handling) but Zion's core characteristics means it really shouldn't be rocket science to figure out his role on an NBA team and subsequent roster construction around him.

[mg]

fwiw, the Pelicans starting lineup has been good. Not pretty good, not elite, but good ... but not even close to what they had with Holiday and Favors last season. So, basically they've taken a big step backwards in the talent they're putting on the floor AND they're doing a bad job maximizing what they have.

Yep that's not good with Zion on the roster. You know the NBA and the media want him in the playoffs. A few more wasted seasons and they can kiss Zion goodbye just like what happened with CP and AD. Same thing is happening with Minny and KAT. The media and big markets are waiting to pounce when things go sour with a superstar in a mid market. The Bucks have gone all out to put a winning team around Giannis and he's stayed there.

I think many NBA fans want the smaller markets to keep their stars so pointing out Griffin's ways isn't a slam toward the Pels franchise. I hope they put together a good team around Zion but so far Griffin has made some mistakes.

[JonFromVA]

fwiw, the Pelicans starting lineup has been good. Not pretty good, not elite, but good ... but not even close to what they had with Holiday and Favors last season. So, basically they've taken a big step backwards in the talent they're putting on the floor AND they're doing a bad job maximizing what they have.

Yep that's not good with Zion on the roster. You know the NBA and the media want him in the playoffs. A few more wasted seasons and they can kiss Zion goodbye just like what happened with CP and AD. Same thing is happening with Minny and KAT. The media and big markets are waiting to pounce when things go sour with a superstar in a mid market. The Bucks have gone all out to put a winning team around Giannis and he's stayed there.

I think many NBA fans want the smaller markets to keep their stars so pointing out Griffin's ways isn't a slam toward the Pels franchise. I hope they put together a good team around Zion but so far Griffin has made some mistakes.

Of course Griff's biggest unscripted move with the Cavs was trading Dion Waiters and a first for Timofey Mozgov, Iman Shumpert, and JR Smith, so, perhaps he was just trying to re-create that magic?

His moves with the Cavs were focused on fixing chemistry problems, as for roster building and talent identification/acquisition? I can't think of much. Channing Frye and Richard Jefferson were nice pickups, but those were scrap heap moves.

[mg]

fwiw, the Pelicans starting lineup has been good. Not pretty good, not elite, but good ... but not even close to what they had with Holiday and Favors last season. So, basically they've taken a big step backwards in the talent they're putting on the floor AND they're doing a bad job maximizing what they have.

Yep that's not good with Zion on the roster. You know the NBA and the media want him in the playoffs. A few more wasted seasons and they can kiss Zion goodbye just like what happened with CP and AD. Same thing is happening with Minny and KAT. The media and big markets are waiting to pounce when things go sour with a superstar in a mid market. The Bucks have gone all out to put a winning team around Giannis and he's stayed there.

I think many NBA fans want the smaller markets to keep their stars so pointing out Griffin's ways isn't a slam toward the Pels franchise. I hope they put together a good team around Zion but so far Griffin has made some mistakes.

Of course Griff's biggest unscripted move with the Cavs was trading Dion Waiters and a first for Timofey Mozgov, Iman Shumpert, and JR Smith, so, perhaps he was just trying to re-create that magic?

His moves with the Cavs were focused on fixing chemistry problems, as for roster building and talent identification/acquisition? I can't think of much. Channing Frye and Richard Jefferson were nice pickups, but those were scrap heap moves.

Agreed. The Cavs already had the ingredients with Kyrie, LeBron, and Love after the Wiggins trade. He had a ton of draft picks in reserve too from the Chris Grant trades. Basically he just needed ancillary parts at that time and to get the pieces to fit.

The Pels are a different animal with young kids like Zion and Ingram who have no idea how to win yet. I understand trying to get a haul for Jrue but the truth he is was the one playable vet still on the roster that could've helped these kids learn to win. Hunter is a another mature younger player that would've helped them immediately. Parts like Hayes don't seem to fit at all. Giving Adams that contract was an unforced error. I'm not sure I see the vision yet in New Orleans in terms of building a roster around Zion. I'm not a Griffin fan at all but do hope they can figure things out. The reality is that small/mid market teams have a fairly short window to improve after they find a star to actually build around.

[TwitterFingers]

uhm, maybe you should take a look at the Zion thread i started on THIS board back in 2018 about how he's a generational prospect, before he even took a single dribble at Duke.

What’s that supposed to tell me? A lot of people had Zion pegged as a generational prospect, including me. It doesn’t mean you’re sure on how to use these guys before day one. How could if you haven’t seen them play a large enough sample size against NBA talent? That’s why you usually have to try different things before figuring it out.

It didn't take much tape at Duke to know that Zion was a generational prospect because of his overwhelming athleticism and strength, which he used to dominate as a paint scorer. Everybody knew he'd be short for a big, everybody knew his jumper isn't gonna be much good. There are some things that were TBD (defense, ball-handling) but Zion's core characteristics means it really shouldn't be rocket science to figure out his role on an NBA team and subsequent roster construction around him.

Yeah Zion had obvious physical attributes that stood out, but there isn’t any player coming out of college that you’re going to know with certainty is going to be able to play a certain way in the NBA before seeing that player play with nba players for an amount of time. Case in point KAT was expected to be a defensive juggernaut in the NBA and offense was supposed to be his weakness. It’s been exactly the opposite. You never know what a player can do against NBA competition until they show it to you.

[Leslie Forman]

David Griffin, Cleveland's vice president of basketball operations at the time, told Lloyd that his top choice in the draft was Victor Oladipo, who went second to the Magic.

Seems like a pretty classic case of ass covering to me. Nobody wanted to draft Bennett, it just happened. Everyone always wanted to draft the guy who didn't bust.

And yet, he voted for Bennett too.

If nobody really wanted the guy…well they sure showed it by picking him before literally every other choice.

[Chanel Bomber]

The Pelicans roster is an atrocity considering all the assets they have had.

First major blunder was trading down in the 2019 draft when David Griffin could've drafted the ideal point guard for Zion in Garland for a rim-runner who can't shoot and a generic yet talented wing. A talent like Garland is simply much harder to find in the NBA. Picking him at 4 was a lay-up.

To then start a campaign with two lead guards who don't fit with Zion is criminal. It's a waste.

[AleksandarN]

Regarding Adams, they had money to be spent with so many young players, and his contract goes down $10M next season. For a young rebuilding team, I think a true workhorse/team center like Adams gives the team and guys like Hayes and Zion a baseline for the hard and less appreciated work that needs to be done.

Between Adams and Bledsoe, theyre taking up 35 million in the cap next year. Take that away, they would be at 56 million dollars of cap taken up as a team. So they could be looking at around 60 million in cap room this summer. There is a ton of things a young team can do with that kind of cap room. They could sign multiple rotation guys that fit their roster around Zion and Ingram (like what the Hawks did with Galo and Bogdan). And having that much cap room and flexibility is always a good thing, you never know what kind of opportunities may come up. Also that flexibility becomes that much harder to create after this summer if they decide to match whatever offer Lonzo gets (or they let him walk for nothing).

How would they have 60 million? If they still had holiday? Or you suggesting you would have let him walk.

[sanima233]

I don't watch the Pelicans alot but this thread was killing Steven Adams like he was a useless bum. He is giving Embid the works tonight, shutting him off from the paint.

[shakes0]

Is trading Deandre Hunter for NAW and Hayes really that bad of a move? Both look to have a good future as far as I can tell. NAW had been on fire recently before getting hurt and Hayes is legit big man talent. I agree that the trade for Adams (and the extension) was a major headscratcher. The value he got for Jrue was as good as it gets.

Have you seen Hunter play this year? He's 3x the player either of those guys are and ever will be.

[@ndrew]

Adams was really good tonight.
But what does Griffin needs to to for Ingram not to go for 5_21? Teach him to shoot?
Griffin is not EOY, but it's not like he can trade Ingram for Durant straight up

[lordjeff05]

Is trading Deandre Hunter for NAW and Hayes really that bad of a move? Both look to have a good future as far as I can tell. NAW had been on fire recently before getting hurt and Hayes is legit big man talent. I agree that the trade for Adams (and the extension) was a major headscratcher. The value he got for Jrue was as good as it gets.

Have you seen Hunter play this year? He's 3x the player either of those guys are and ever will be.

Hayes is 3 years younger than Hunter, let’s pump the breaks on establishing his ceiling just yet.

[sfballa13]

Is trading Deandre Hunter for NAW and Hayes really that bad of a move? Both look to have a good future as far as I can tell. NAW had been on fire recently before getting hurt and Hayes is legit big man talent. I agree that the trade for Adams (and the extension) was a major headscratcher. The value he got for Jrue was as good as it gets.

Have you seen Hunter play this year? He's 3x the player either of those guys are and ever will be.

Hayes is 3 years younger than Hunter, let’s pump the breaks on establishing his ceiling just yet.

Forget about the Hayes/Naw/Hunter move - ill give you multiple reasons he should be fired in a list:

1. Steven Adams - lost a 1st to get this guy when players like Drummond were basically given away for free AND extended him

2. Made a good move by trading Jrue for a lot of assets but then proceeded to sit on Bledsoe - stunting the growth of the team/young players all while failing to get at least a 2nd rounder for him in the process

3. Whiffed on the JJ Reddick free agent signing - not entirely his fault he fell off - but waited way to long to trade him, got nothing of value back, all while pissing him off and sending bad messages to players/agents across the league - players dont forget and Reddick is well liked and has influence in the NBPA

4. Aliented Lonzo by allowing trade rumors to fester all year long, failed to sign him to an extension by again failing to make him feel wanted/part of the future - We get it, Ingram/Lonzo arent the best - but a trio of Lonzo-Ingram-Zion is a great foundation that many franchises would love to have.

5. Failed to put any kind of proper roster around Zion -- one of the biggest reasons he should be fired. Can any Pelican fan say that they would keep any player on this team outside of Lonzo/Ingram/Zion? Even Hayes/NAW - i dont see them as a lock on NBA roster - not from what they showed so far. Outside of Ingram/Zion/Lonzo - no other Pelican is averaging more than 10 pts a game for the season. That's pathetic.

And for me, the biggest reason to fire Griffin would be the hiring of SVG.

Van Gundy is a MORON - he literally destroyed the Pistons from the inside / out. Terrible eye for talent, bad in game manager, poor developer of young players, outdated offensive sets.

This is the guy Griffin trusts to mold Zion and the Pelicans into champions? That alone should be reason enough for a pink slip.

Zion is gone and that's sad.

[heezyo2o]

How are you finding enough playing time for deandre hunter with a healthy zion, ingram and all the guards they have

Not that hard.

Lonzo
Ingram
Hunter
Zion
Adams

I mean its not like they would be worse defensively with this lineup than what they're currently trotting out. Plus Ingram defends guards better than he defends big forwards, Ingram can slide to the 2 with no problem.

Kira coming in to play minutes behind Ball and Hart doing what Hart does and plays backup minutes for the 2 and the 3.

Ingram can defend guards, but they already had at least a 4 guard rotation before that: Lonzo, bledsoe, reddick and hart

[DarkXaero]

Is trading Deandre Hunter for NAW and Hayes really that bad of a move? Both look to have a good future as far as I can tell. NAW had been on fire recently before getting hurt and Hayes is legit big man talent. I agree that the trade for Adams (and the extension) was a major headscratcher. The value he got for Jrue was as good as it gets.

Have you seen Hunter play this year? He's 3x the player either of those guys are and ever will be.

I have, Hunter is very good, although the sample size has been small this season. He's also a year older than NAW and 3 years older than Hayes. NAW was putting together a nice streak of games before getting hurt. Hayes is raw but the talent is there.

[theonlyclutch]

Is trading Deandre Hunter for NAW and Hayes really that bad of a move? Both look to have a good future as far as I can tell. NAW had been on fire recently before getting hurt and Hayes is legit big man talent. I agree that the trade for Adams (and the extension) was a major headscratcher. The value he got for Jrue was as good as it gets.

Have you seen Hunter play this year? He's 3x the player either of those guys are and ever will be.

I have, Hunter is very good, although the sample size has been small this season. He's also a year older than NAW and 3 years older than Hayes. NAW was putting together a nice streak of games before getting hurt. Hayes is raw but the talent is there.

Players don't get longer rookie contracts for being younger. After their 4th year all of them will be paid "market value" by NBA teams. So Hayes/NAW being younger in this case merely means that they take longer to reach their potential, at which time they'd be on their 2nd contracts and far less likely to generate surplus value. (Since younger players get more $$ contracts on potential this problem is even worse.)

[sanima233]

Have you seen Hunter play this year? He's 3x the player either of those guys are and ever will be.

I have, Hunter is very good, although the sample size has been small this season. He's also a year older than NAW and 3 years older than Hayes. NAW was putting together a nice streak of games before getting hurt. Hayes is raw but the talent is there.

Players don't get longer rookie contracts for being younger. After their 4th year all of them will be paid "market value" by NBA teams. So Hayes/NAW being younger in this case merely means that they take longer to reach their potential, at which time they'd be on their 2nd contracts and far less likely to generate surplus value. (Since younger players get more $$ contracts on potential this problem is even worse.)

You forget that the best contracts in the leagues are underpaid max contracts. you have higher chance of younger rookies improving to such a point that their max 2nd contract is actually tremendous value as opposed to like when a team really didn't want to max their young players but felt forced to/ forced to overpay ( i.e. lonzo)

[Smirk]

Have you seen Hunter play this year? He's 3x the player either of those guys are and ever will be.

Hayes is 3 years younger than Hunter, let’s pump the breaks on establishing his ceiling just yet.

Forget about the Hayes/Naw/Hunter move - ill give you multiple reasons he should be fired in a list:

1. Steven Adams - lost a 1st to get this guy when players like Drummond were basically given away for free AND extended him

2. Made a good move by trading Jrue for a lot of assets but then proceeded to sit on Bledsoe - stunting the growth of the team/young players all while failing to get at least a 2nd rounder for him in the process

3. Whiffed on the JJ Reddick free agent signing - not entirely his fault he fell off - but waited way to long to trade him, got nothing of value back, all while pissing him off and sending bad messages to players/agents across the league - players dont forget and Reddick is well liked and has influence in the NBPA

4. Aliented Lonzo by allowing trade rumors to fester all year long, failed to sign him to an extension by again failing to make him feel wanted/part of the future - We get it, Ingram/Lonzo arent the best - but a trio of Lonzo-Ingram-Zion is a great foundation that many franchises would love to have.

5. Failed to put any kind of proper roster around Zion -- one of the biggest reasons he should be fired. Can any Pelican fan say that they would keep any player on this team outside of Lonzo/Ingram/Zion? Even Hayes/NAW - i dont see them as a lock on NBA roster - not from what they showed so far. Outside of Ingram/Zion/Lonzo - no other Pelican is averaging more than 10 pts a game for the season. That's pathetic.

And for me, the biggest reason to fire Griffin would be the hiring of SVG.

Van Gundy is a MORON - he literally destroyed the Pistons from the inside / out. Terrible eye for talent, bad in game manager, poor developer of young players, outdated offensive sets.

This is the guy Griffin trusts to mold Zion and the Pelicans into champions? That alone should be reason enough for a pink slip.

Zion is gone and that's sad.

You really don’t have much of a clue what you’re talking about, like about 90% of the people in this thread that only vaguely follow the Pelicans.

[VanWest82]

I'd say he's definitely opened himself up for criticism though right now a firing is probably premature.

The Jrue trade was a home run. Full stop. He also did well in the AD trade even if he subsequently messed up the draft. They still have the 2024 Lakers pick and their swaps which could come into play if they continue an upward trajectory and Lebron and/or AD continue to have injury issues.

Griffin is going to ultimately be judged by what he does with Lonzo and Ingram imo. Clearly the Lonzo/Ingram/Zion trio isn't ideal, but those guys have value individually. If Griff can navigate a better direction there he might be able to improve the ceiling of the team and his job security.