Darius Garland vs. Collin Sexton

[Hobo4President]

Trade neither for now.

[Roger Murdock]

I actually think Okoro is the guy getting squeezed the most due to starting both players. Okoro looks special guarding SGs/PGs but is a size mismatch vs SFs and being a defensive specialist whos being forced to guard SFs/PFs... well its not going as well as it could. I think long term hes the guy whos value will be impacted the most.

[JonFromVA]

I actually think Okoro is the guy getting squeezed the most due to starting both players. Okoro looks special guarding SGs/PGs but is a size mismatch vs SFs and being a defensive specialist whos being forced to guard SFs/PFs... well its not going as well as it could. I think long term hes the guy whos value will be impacted the most.

Okoro is learning to guard the opponent's best offensive wing - in the long-term that will pay off for him - in the short-term there are a lot of lessons to absorb from all the great players around the league.

His Home-Road and Wins-Losses splits are pretty outrageous. He plays a lot better offensively at home and not surprisingly in wins.

Until the Cavs get consistent shooting from the SF and PF positions, Sexton and Garland are going to be held back from what they might be. Jarrett Allen at the last gives them an option besides driving in to a crowd and taking a tough shot.

[LivingLegend]

I actually think Okoro is the guy getting squeezed the most due to starting both players. Okoro looks special guarding SGs/PGs but is a size mismatch vs SFs and being a defensive specialist whos being forced to guard SFs/PFs... well its not going as well as it could. I think long term hes the guy whos value will be impacted the most.

Okoro is learning to guard the opponent's best offensive wing - in the long-term that will pay off for him - in the short-term there are a lot of lessons to absorb from all the great players around the league.

His Home-Road and Wins-Losses splits are pretty outrageous. He plays a lot better offensively at home and not surprisingly in wins.

Until the Cavs get consistent shooting from the SF and PF positions, Sexton and Garland are going to be held back from what they might be. Jarrett Allen at the last gives them an option besides driving in to a crowd and taking a tough shot.

It is good for him for the experience, but did you see how much Siakam towers over Okoro when he was guarding him last night? Sometimes, just getting constantly physically outmatched wears on you. There is a line in "this is good for the long term" and "he's playing out of position and it's hurting the team"

Okoro is closer to being a tall PG than he is to being a SF. Eventually he is going to have to start playing his actual position to maximize his strengths and what he was drafted for. That's SG.

[cgf]

Would something like Knox + DAL/NYK 2021 FRP + 2022 FRP be at all tempting for Cavs fans after the draft? I'm higher on Garland in general, but with Randle & Barrett's playmaking, Sexton seems like he could be an interesting fit for us. A kid who can create his own shot as well as finish Julius or RJ's dishes, with the kind of work-ethic/drive that should fit with Thibs & our core nicely? Might be something there if there's a trade that works for both sides.

[Roger Murdock]

Would something like Knox + DAL/NYK 2021 FRP + 2022 FRP be at all tempting for Cavs fans after the draft? I'm higher on Garland in general, but with Randle & Barrett's playmaking, Sexton seems like he could be an interesting fit for us. A kid who can create his own shot as well as finish Julius or RJ's dishes, with the kind of work-ethic/drive that should fit with Thibs & our core nicely? Might be something there if there's a trade that works for both sides.

Not even a little bit. I'd imagine it would have to be Toppin + Quickly + picks but that's not particularly exciting for Cleveland unless they love Toppin for whatever reason. Late firsts and a nobody player doesn't help.

Sexton would be an amazing fit with Tibs but theres no package that makes any sense.

[floppymoose]

I voted for wrong one because i couldnt remember which was which. Maybe thats a sign.

[Up-And-Coming]

I’m in the minority but I think they should keep Sexton. He’s already shown improvement and a certain intensity that can be a good culture-setter.

[cgf]

Would something like Knox + DAL/NYK 2021 FRP + 2022 FRP be at all tempting for Cavs fans after the draft? I'm higher on Garland in general, but with Randle & Barrett's playmaking, Sexton seems like he could be an interesting fit for us. A kid who can create his own shot as well as finish Julius or RJ's dishes, with the kind of work-ethic/drive that should fit with Thibs & our core nicely? Might be something there if there's a trade that works for both sides.

Not even a little bit. I'd imagine it would have to be Toppin + Quickly + picks but that's not particularly exciting for Cleveland unless they love Toppin for whatever reason. Late firsts and a nobody player doesn't help.

Sexton would be an amazing fit with Tibs but theres no package that makes any sense.

Fair enough, but I'd rather keep Quick at this point. He may never be as reliable a scorer, but he's got the defense to keep Thibs happy.

[yoyoboy]

Would something like Knox + DAL/NYK 2021 FRP + 2022 FRP be at all tempting for Cavs fans after the draft? I'm higher on Garland in general, but with Randle & Barrett's playmaking, Sexton seems like he could be an interesting fit for us. A kid who can create his own shot as well as finish Julius or RJ's dishes, with the kind of work-ethic/drive that should fit with Thibs & our core nicely? Might be something there if there's a trade that works for both sides.

Definitely not. Not trying to trade Sexton just for the sake of trading him. The value would have to be there. Regardless of his playmaking struggles, a 22 year old guard averaging 24.5 ppg on 58% TS bodes very well for his scoring potential. Knox will most likely be out of the league soon and two outside-the-lottery picks just aren't intriguing enough.

[cgf]

Would something like Knox + DAL/NYK 2021 FRP + 2022 FRP be at all tempting for Cavs fans after the draft? I'm higher on Garland in general, but with Randle & Barrett's playmaking, Sexton seems like he could be an interesting fit for us. A kid who can create his own shot as well as finish Julius or RJ's dishes, with the kind of work-ethic/drive that should fit with Thibs & our core nicely? Might be something there if there's a trade that works for both sides.

Definitely not. Not trying to trade Sexton just for the sake of trading him. The value would have to be there. Regardless of his playmaking struggles, a 22 year old guard averaging 24.5 ppg on 58% TS bodes very well for his scoring potential. Knox will most likely be out of the league soon and two outside-the-lottery picks just aren't intriguing enough.

That's what I would think, but I was wondering if there might be some hesitance about having to pay him next summer given the limitations to his game & Garland's growth; so I figured I'd just ask to get a sense for what you guys think he'd be worth.

And man, I just don't know with Kevin. He's certainly not a Thibs guy -- just too much of an airhead -- but I also can't deny that he did show a clear improvement when injuries had him in the rotation to start the season. Not trying to sell him as some big piece or anything, but with his stroke, physical tools & defensive improvement, I'm doubtful that he'll be out of the league any time soon...even though he's unlikely to be a Knick for much longer.

[Harper4Ferry?]

I like the Garland/Okoro backcourt pairing. I hope the move this offseason is not to just blindly max Sexton(or even go 4/100ish). I would use Sexton to move Love and to therefore get a more neutral trade return.

[yoyoboy]

I'm not high on Okoro to be honest. I don't view him as a long term piece to the Cavs' future. For as undersized as he is at the SF position, he's just miles away in terms of on-ball skills and shooting ability to be able to play the SG position. He absolutely should not stop the Cavs from taking a swingman in this draft.

Sexton, Garland, and Allen are our cornerstone pieces, and that's also assuming the Sexland pairing can work out. I'd really like to keep Nance too. Everyone else can go.

[yoyoboy]

I like the Garland/Okoro backcourt pairing. I hope the move this offseason is not to just blindly max Sexton(or even go 4/100ish). I would use Sexton to move Love and to therefore get a more neutral trade return.

Attaching Sexton to get out of paying Love for 2 more years when we're almost certainly not going to be able to take advantage of that extra cap space anyways since the team isn't nearly good enough to attract any good FAs makes no sense. At this point it's very unlikely we trade Love given what it would cost us as a team.

[JonFromVA]

I actually think Okoro is the guy getting squeezed the most due to starting both players. Okoro looks special guarding SGs/PGs but is a size mismatch vs SFs and being a defensive specialist whos being forced to guard SFs/PFs... well its not going as well as it could. I think long term hes the guy whos value will be impacted the most.

Okoro is learning to guard the opponent's best offensive wing - in the long-term that will pay off for him - in the short-term there are a lot of lessons to absorb from all the great players around the league.

His Home-Road and Wins-Losses splits are pretty outrageous. He plays a lot better offensively at home and not surprisingly in wins.

Until the Cavs get consistent shooting from the SF and PF positions, Sexton and Garland are going to be held back from what they might be. Jarrett Allen at the last gives them an option besides driving in to a crowd and taking a tough shot.

It is good for him for the experience, but did you see how much Siakam towers over Okoro when he was guarding him last night? Sometimes, just getting constantly physically outmatched wears on you. There is a line in "this is good for the long term" and "he's playing out of position and it's hurting the team"

Okoro is closer to being a tall PG than he is to being a SF. Eventually he is going to have to start playing his actual position to maximize his strengths and what he was drafted for. That's SG.

I imagine if he was healthy, you would have seen more of Larry Nance on Siakim and Okoro shifting to whichever Raptor wing seemed like more of a threat at the time. I'm not sure anything is wearing on Isaac (he's a strong/tough kid who's only going to get bigger/stronger) but in this particular game we were simply short a lot of players.

On most teams Isaac would be coming off the bench as a rook. The reason he's starting is because of his ability to guard multiple positions, and the better wing defenders in the league do not shrink from guarding taller players. Sometimes it even works out better than using a taller player, but it requires experience.

Keep in mind, Jimmy Butler was 4 years older than Isaac before he was playing 30 mpg in the NBA, and 3 years older before he saw his first start.

[The_Hater]

Keep Garland. Trade Sexton

Sexton probably has really high trade value right now, more than Garland, but will remain an undersized shooting guard who can’t defend, won’t (or can’t) pass the ball and will be an extremely difficult core piece to build a winning team around. At least Garland appears to get that undersized players need to more than just shoot.

[JonFromVA]

I'm not high on Okoro to be honest. I don't view him as a long term piece to the Cavs' future. For as undersized as he is at the SF position, he's just miles away in terms of on-ball skills and shooting ability to be able to play the SG position. He absolutely should not stop the Cavs from taking a swingman in this draft.

Sexton, Garland, and Allen are our cornerstone pieces, and that's also assuming the Sexland pairing can work out. I'd really like to keep Nance too. Everyone else can go.

I'm very high on Isaac, and I feel having Allen/Okoro actually gives Garland/Sexton a chance to work defensively; but it's going to take some time for his offensive game to evolve let alone bloom.

If you look at his home/road splits you will see his biggest impediment at the moment is getting used to playing on the road and his numbers are already trending up including 3 of his 6 highest scoring games happening on the road in April. The splits also show that Isaac plays a lot better in wins than losses which I believe demonstrates how much we need at least a base level of offensive production from his position.

I think his shooting will start to come around (perhaps over the Summer). He should also develop as an offensive initiator, but that's likely a much longer term development (check back in 4 years).

So in the short term he will hopefully shoot better, but without a secondary creator, he's not going to work at SG in place of Sexton.

As for the draft, I agree the Cavs should be looking for a wing (or a PF), but the draft isn't where you look for quick fixes. As a team we just need more talent, and hopefully that talent can be developed and sorted out over time without bleeding it away.

If nobody is willing to offer another promising young player that somehow fits our team better for Sexton, I'm simply not trading him.

This isn't even a Steph/Monta situation in Cleveland as Garland is about 3 years younger than Steph was when he played his first game without Ellis, and Sexton has already demonstrated he can play effectively and efficiently without being the lead ball handler.