I don't get the notion that Lakers are absolutely stacked

[trickshot]

They're blessed with talent but can't fault any rival fan not being scared of them. They'll first have to click, then stay healthy, then have Westbrook click in the playoffs where he has tended to dip for reasons here or there. It's just really hard to be scared of playoff Westbrook right now.

Can a team win with a starter taking up that much volume and inefficiency? Has it ever happened or is everyone relying on an improvement year? Actually wish to be proven wrong for his sake.

[Ballerhogger]

We’re a well aged bourbon … stacked like the warriors or the heat in the past no . But very very good team that covers with 3 all stars . We need some shooting but overall we are 1-3 type of seed . We should outrebound and out defend most of the league . Who else has center rotation like us? Star , and two serviceable back ups

[MGB8]

Lakers are a tier down from Nets.

KD-Harden-Kyrie >> AD-Lebron-Westbrook

Harris-Blake-Mills-KungFuJohnson-Brown-Aldridge-Bembry-Okafor > Nunn-Monk-THT-Dwight-Melo-D.Jordan-Ellington-Rondo-Gasol-Ariza…. if only because of Harris

But the sneaky stacked team is GSW, assuming Klay 90%+: Steph-Klay and then Draymond, Wiggins, Kuminga, Moody, Looney, the criminally underrated Toscano-Anderson, 2nd year Wiseman, Iggy, Otto Porter, Bjelica, Poole and Lee…. They could use a vet pg over Poole (like, I dunno, Collison, if the time away hasn’t hurt too much) rather than relying on Iggy…. but that is a team that no one should overlook.

[Darthlukey]

lol...they have 3 MVP caliber players on the roster, and are 10+ deep with vets.

they are not Brooklyn or 17 Warriors, but this team is absolutely stacked by almost every other measure.

6 MVP caliber players

Melo, Howard, Gasol, Westbrook, LeBron, Davis

4 are well past their primes though

Not according to the Big O

[wutevahung]

lol...they have 3 MVP caliber players on the roster, and are 10+ deep with vets.

they are not Brooklyn or 17 Warriors, but this team is absolutely stacked by almost every other measure.

a weird take from a poster who i generally respect a lot.

You think Russell Westbrook has been a MVP caliber player in the last 3 years? He was 10th, not voted, and 11th in MVP voting the last three years. and to emphasize, not all star, not all nba, but MVP? the difference between a MVP player to all NBA 3rd team is massive, and he was on the 3rd team on 19' and 20', but was not selected on any NBA or all star team in 21'. I am not going to do this for each players on the rosters, since this alone makes a huge difference in expectations and championship odds, but if this is the narratives that lakers fans have to combat with, is there any wonder that they have to defend against that narrative?

and if RW was indeed a MVP calibre player, is it fair to say Wizards had 2 MVP calibre players last year since Beal had slightly better #s than Westbrook and was the only all NBA player from the roster? or are you only a MVP calibre player if you have won a MVP before, regardless your current impact on the court?

[DroseReturnChi]

the lakers are stacked its just that KD makes goat teams every single yr from 3mvp okc superteam to 73 win warriors to this 3mvp nets. Legm getting exposed i would hire KD pay him blank check like masai.

[DroseReturnChi]

lol...they have 3 MVP caliber players on the roster, and are 10+ deep with vets.

they are not Brooklyn or 17 Warriors, but this team is absolutely stacked by almost every other measure.

a weird take from a poster who i generally respect a lot.

You think Russell Westbrook has been a MVP caliber player in the last 3 years? He was 10th, not voted, and 11th in MVP voting the last three years. and to emphasize, not all star, not all nba, but MVP? the difference between a MVP player to all NBA 3rd team is massive, and he was on the 3rd team on 19' and 20', but was not selected on any NBA or all star team in 21'. I am not going to do this for each players on the rosters, since this alone makes a huge difference in expectations and championship odds, but if this is the narratives that lakers fans have to combat with, is there any wonder that they have to defend against that narrative?

and if RW was indeed a MVP calibre player, is it fair to say Wizards had 2 MVP calibre players last year since Beal had slightly better #s than Westbrook and was the only all NBA player from the roster? or are you only a MVP calibre player if you have won a MVP before, regardless your current impact on the court?

hes exaggerating for hot takes man. no one thinks russ is mvp caliber for dunking on kids.

[jehosafats]

Who are these shooters you speak of? Who can hit the open shot with some regularity?

Nunn isn't much of a shooter. Mathews is washed beyond belief. Ellington used to be a stud shooter, Bazemore too, but can we expect players of advanced age to grind over the regular season for 32-35 mins a game?

These are their stats from the 2020-21 season.

Ellington: 42% from 6 attempts in 22 MPG.
Bazemore: 42% from 3 attempts in 20 MPG.
Monk: 40% from 5 attempts in 20 MPG.
Nunn: 38% from 6 attempts in 30 MPG.

For Matthews, I'm providing his career stats since he had a down year in 2020-21.

Matthews: 38% from 5 attempts in 30 MPG.

Considering these guys are role-players who will likely be used around Lebron, AD and Russell (whose combined salaries are $120m) on a "revolving-door" basis depending on who has the hot hand... and are not the main guys that a team is built around (such as Curry, KD, Klay, etc)... I think that's a pretty darn good level of shooting to have. Don't you?

I'm not saying they're not, because on paper there's potential for them to be a good shooting team. I just have to see it for myself.

[Goomba3666]

Lakers are a tier down from Nets.

KD-Harden-Kyrie >> AD-Lebron-Westbrook

Harris-Blake-Mills-KungFuJohnson-Brown-Aldridge-Bembry-Okafor > Nunn-Monk-THT-Dwight-Melo-D.Jordan-Ellington-Rondo-Gasol-Ariza…. if only because of Harris

But the sneaky stacked team is GSW, assuming Klay 90%+: Steph-Klay and then Draymond, Wiggins, Kuminga, Moody, Looney, the criminally underrated Toscano-Anderson, 2nd year Wiseman, Iggy, Otto Porter, Bjelica, Poole and Lee…. They could use a vet pg over Poole (like, I dunno, Collison, if the time away hasn’t hurt too much) rather than relying on Iggy…. but that is a team that no one should overlook.

One of the most insane posts I've seen on realgm.The degree of mental gymnastics it has to think like this is bizarre.

Curry, a less than 100% Klay, and a bunch of scrubs is 'sneaky stacked'.

Kyrie, KD, Harden + random scrubs is a tier higher than Lebron/AD/Westbrook + a HOF bench/proven winners.

The narratives are disgusting.

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

lol...they have 3 MVP caliber players on the roster, and are 10+ deep with vets.

they are not Brooklyn or 17 Warriors, but this team is absolutely stacked by almost every other measure.

6 MVP caliber players

Melo, Howard, Gasol, Westbrook, LeBron, Davis

4 are well past their primes though

Not according to the Big O

“I just don’t think coaches today in basketball understand the game of basketball. They don’t know anything about defenses. They don’t know what people are doing on the court. They talk about analytical basketball and stuff like that.

They double-teamed me an awful lot during my career. I look at games today, and they’ll start a defense at the foul line. When I played, they were picking you up when you got the ball inbounds. So it’s a different strategy about playing defense."

- Oscar Robertson, 2016

[LakersSquadup]

6 MVP caliber players

Melo, Howard, Gasol, Westbrook, LeBron, Davis

4 are well past their primes though

Melo Howard but Gasol was never mvp caliber. Who's the other guy you THINK is well past his prime?

Imagine being salary dumped twice in the last two years, having a TS% under 50% in each of your last 4 playoff appearances, setting career or near career lows in everything from shooting % at the FT/2/3 to turnover rate, playing 65 games (out of 72) healthy but not getting on any all NBA team, and having people arguing you're still an MVP caliber player.

CP3 was salary dumped twice and just lead a team to the finals so that argument point is dead. Ahhh the fg% argument those are things predicated on a lot of things and can be addressed easily unless your clearly washed but seeing that he was still good enough to avg 22ppg 11rpg and 12 apg while carrying a team to the playoffs I’ll say fg% is a weak argument. Ok let’s talk Turnovers. Doncic was right behind him 4.2 per game while avg 4 less assist. No one will tell you doncic is washed. They actually have him as this season possible MVP.

[HabsAndDubs]

Not sure what’s hard to understand. They have three superstars, including at least 2 MVP calibre players and an extremely stacked bench of vets with some really good young guys too.

We all know what’s going to happen with Westbrook. First 20 games people will claim that he deserves to be playing in Europe, overrated, empty stats, etc., and then he’ll average a 28PPG triple double from January onwards, and all of a sudden he’ll be the “dark horse choice for MVP”.

Nothing is guaranteed and no one is unbeatable, but I think the Lakers should feel extremely confident about their team, and there isn’t much more they could’ve done to be even better.

[LAL1947]

Lakers are a tier down from Nets.

KD-Harden-Kyrie >> AD-Lebron-Westbrook

Harris-Blake-Mills-KungFuJohnson-Brown-Aldridge-Bembry-Okafor > Nunn-Monk-THT-Dwight-Melo-D.Jordan-Ellington-Rondo-Gasol-Ariza…. if only because of Harris

But the sneaky stacked team is GSW, assuming Klay 90%+: Steph-Klay and then Draymond, Wiggins, Kuminga, Moody, Looney, the criminally underrated Toscano-Anderson, 2nd year Wiseman, Iggy, Otto Porter, Bjelica, Poole and Lee…. They could use a vet pg over Poole (like, I dunno, Collison, if the time away hasn’t hurt too much) rather than relying on Iggy…. but that is a team that no one should overlook.

One of the most insane posts I've seen on realgm.The degree of mental gymnastics it has to think like this is bizarre.

Curry, a less than 100% Klay, and a bunch of scrubs is 'sneaky stacked'.

Kyrie, KD, Harden + random scrubs is a tier higher than Lebron/AD/Westbrook + a HOF bench/proven winners.

The narratives are disgusting.

He's not wrong... the Nets have the better roster on paper and we've yet to see how Westbrook fits with Lebron, AD and their FAs. Did you forget what KD, Harden and Kyrie were doing to the Bucks before the latter 2 got injured? It wasn't even close in those games... and that was before they had a chance to address holes in their roster as the Harden trade was done mid-season. They've fixed some holes with better players than they had (Patty Mills, LMA, Okafor, Bembry, Sekou vs TLC, Jeff Green, DJ). This doesn't mean that the Lakers roster is far behind or anything though.

Harden / Patty / Carter
Kyrie / Brown / Thomas
KD / Harris / Bembry
Griffin / LMA / Milsap / Sekou
Claxton / Okafor / Sharpe

He's also right about GSW, that's a team who could surprise in the WC playoffs, especially if Klay is back to his old self.

Curry / GP2 / Lee
Klay / Poole / Moody
Wiggins / Iggy / Kuminga
Draymond / Bjelica / Otto
Looney / Wiseman

[MGB8]

Lakers are a tier down from Nets.

KD-Harden-Kyrie >> AD-Lebron-Westbrook

Harris-Blake-Mills-KungFuJohnson-Brown-Aldridge-Bembry-Okafor > Nunn-Monk-THT-Dwight-Melo-D.Jordan-Ellington-Rondo-Gasol-Ariza…. if only because of Harris

But the sneaky stacked team is GSW, assuming Klay 90%+: Steph-Klay and then Draymond, Wiggins, Kuminga, Moody, Looney, the criminally underrated Toscano-Anderson, 2nd year Wiseman, Iggy, Otto Porter, Bjelica, Poole and Lee…. They could use a vet pg over Poole (like, I dunno, Collison, if the time away hasn’t hurt too much) rather than relying on Iggy…. but that is a team that no one should overlook.

One of the most insane posts I've seen on realgm.The degree of mental gymnastics it has to think like this is bizarre.

Curry, a less than 100% Klay, and a bunch of scrubs is 'sneaky stacked'.

Kyrie, KD, Harden + random scrubs is a tier higher than Lebron/AD/Westbrook + a HOF bench/proven winners.

The narratives are disgusting.

I think that you are the insane one.

Lebron isn't who he was. Lebron played in all 6 games vs. the Suns, Anthony Davis, while he got reinjured, played in 5, including 34 points in game 2 and 3. Without Anthony Davis on his A game, the Suns owned the Lakers despite Lebron surrounded by some of those same "HOF bench" players. If you think that moving from current-day Drummond to current-day Howard is some sort of huge upgrade, you are in for a big surprise.

Yes, there have been upgrades - most notably from Schroder to Westbrook - but there have been downgrades, too.

Who exactly do the Lakers have to defend the wing now the way that Caruso and KCP did? 32 year old Kent Bazemore of the 101/108 Ortg/Drtg? 36 year old Trevor Ariza (111/111) who is pretty much a 4 at this point in his career? 26 year old Kendrick Nunn (111/113) who the Heat didn't work too hard to retain and isn't much of a defensive player? Or Rondo (108/112) who Atlanta didn't care to keep, and neither did the Clippers? Malik Monk? Carmello Anthony?

Oh, no, it's going to be Russ (105/110) forgetting about offense and expending energy primarily on defense - I see. Russell Westbrook's TS should go back up from a poor 51% to something like 54-55% due to being on a much more talented team - but he's not late prime / early 30's Dwyane Wade. And maybe he's able to keep his 3 point percentage borderline respectable at 32% like last season.... or maybe it regresses to 30% or under like the 3 seasons before that... career high is 34%... which is what Schroder shot last year (though Russ did have a higher % unrounded).

At least 37 year old Melo should be able to be a reasonable replacement for last year's 25 year old Kyle Kuzma.

Compare to last season's roster

older Lebron
still prime Davis
more developed THT
Russ-Schoder swap (upgrade, but age, fit/shooting issues)
Drummond-Howard swap
Kuzma-Melo swap
Trez Harrell-Ariza swap (offense for defense)
Caruso-Nunn swap (defense for offense)
McLemore-Monk swap (same role)
KCP-Bazemore swap (same role-downgrade)

[JN61]

the lakers are stacked its just that KD makes goat teams every single yr from 3mvp okc superteam to 73 win warriors to this 3mvp nets. Legm getting exposed i would hire KD pay him blank check like masai.

It's delusional to think bunch of 22-23 year olds is a super team..

[Buckeye-NBAFan]

Melo Howard but Gasol was never mvp caliber. Who's the other guy you THINK is well past his prime?

Imagine being salary dumped twice in the last two years, having a TS% under 50% in each of your last 4 playoff appearances, setting career or near career lows in everything from shooting % at the FT/2/3 to turnover rate, playing 65 games (out of 72) healthy but not getting on any all NBA team, and having people arguing you're still an MVP caliber player.

CP3 was salary dumped twice and just lead a team to the finals so that argument point is dead. Ahhh the fg% argument those are things predicated on a lot of things and can be addressed easily unless your clearly washed but seeing that he was still good enough to avg 22ppg 11rpg and 12 apg while carrying a team to the playoffs I’ll say fg% is a weak argument. Ok let’s talk Turnovers. Doncic was right behind him 4.2 per game while avg 4 less assist. No one will tell you doncic is washed. They actually have him as this season possible MVP.

Paul was salary dumped once. And it was for injury and bad personality fit, not performance when healthy.

Yes, if Westbrook just made more shots and missed fewer shots, it would make him a better player. I mean, if I made enough more shots and missed enough fewer shots, I could win MVP. It's just that simple.

But thanks for making my point about turnovers. Doncic now and Westbrook in his prime had similar turnover rates (15-16%), and now Westbrook's rate is the highest of his career (18%).

[Goomba3666]

the lakers are stacked its just that KD makes goat teams every single yr from 3mvp okc superteam to 73 win warriors to this 3mvp nets. Legm getting exposed i would hire KD pay him blank check like masai.

It's delusional to think bunch of 22-23 year olds is a super team..

Every team is a super team except Lebron's.

His fans even called the 2014 Spurs a superteam after the record margin bewtdown. Nothing is off limits when it comes to their sheer delusion.

[Goomba3666]

Lakers are a tier down from Nets.

KD-Harden-Kyrie >> AD-Lebron-Westbrook

Harris-Blake-Mills-KungFuJohnson-Brown-Aldridge-Bembry-Okafor > Nunn-Monk-THT-Dwight-Melo-D.Jordan-Ellington-Rondo-Gasol-Ariza…. if only because of Harris

But the sneaky stacked team is GSW, assuming Klay 90%+: Steph-Klay and then Draymond, Wiggins, Kuminga, Moody, Looney, the criminally underrated Toscano-Anderson, 2nd year Wiseman, Iggy, Otto Porter, Bjelica, Poole and Lee…. They could use a vet pg over Poole (like, I dunno, Collison, if the time away hasn’t hurt too much) rather than relying on Iggy…. but that is a team that no one should overlook.

One of the most insane posts I've seen on realgm.The degree of mental gymnastics it has to think like this is bizarre.

Curry, a less than 100% Klay, and a bunch of scrubs is 'sneaky stacked'.

Kyrie, KD, Harden + random scrubs is a tier higher than Lebron/AD/Westbrook + a HOF bench/proven winners.

The narratives are disgusting.

I think that you are the insane one.

Lebron isn't who he was. Lebron played in all 6 games vs. the Suns, Anthony Davis, while he got reinjured, played in 5, including 34 points in game 2 and 3. Without Anthony Davis on his A game, the Suns owned the Lakers despite Lebron surrounded by some of those same "HOF bench" players. If you think that moving from current-day Drummond to current-day Howard is some sort of huge upgrade, you are in for a big surprise.

Yes, there have been upgrades - most notably from Schroder to Westbrook - but there have been downgrades, too.

Who exactly do the Lakers have to defend the wing now the way that Caruso and KCP did? 32 year old Kent Bazemore of the 101/108 Ortg/Drtg? 36 year old Trevor Ariza (111/111) who is pretty much a 4 at this point in his career? 26 year old Kendrick Nunn (111/113) who the Heat didn't work too hard to retain and isn't much of a defensive player? Or Rondo (108/112) who Atlanta didn't care to keep, and neither did the Clippers? Malik Monk? Carmello Anthony?

Oh, no, it's going to be Russ (105/110) forgetting about offense and expending energy primarily on defense - I see. Russell Westbrook's TS should go back up from a poor 51% to something like 54-55% due to being on a much more talented team - but he's not late prime / early 30's Dwyane Wade. And maybe he's able to keep his 3 point percentage borderline respectable at 32% like last season.... or maybe it regresses to 30% or under like the 3 seasons before that... career high is 34%... which is what Schroder shot last year (though Russ did have a higher % unrounded).

At least 37 year old Melo should be able to be a reasonable replacement for last year's 25 year old Kyle Kuzma.

Compare to last season's roster

older Lebron
still prime Davis
more developed THT
Russ-Schoder swap (upgrade, but age, fit/shooting issues)
Drummond-Howard swap
Kuzma-Melo swap
Trez Harrell-Ariza swap (offense for defense)
Caruso-Nunn swap (defense for offense)
McLemore-Monk swap (same role)
KCP-Bazemore swap (same role-downgrade)

Westbrook and Schroeder are a "swap". Imagine that.

I can't wait until Lebron retires and takes this cultish era of fandom with him.

[Harry Garris]

lol...they have 3 MVP caliber players on the roster, and are 10+ deep with vets.

they are not Brooklyn or 17 Warriors, but this team is absolutely stacked by almost every other measure.

I don't think AD has ever had a legitimate case for MVP. Lebron's MVP cases the past couple of years have just been a legacy argument. He wasn't putting up a better season than guys like Giannis or Embiid or Jokic. Westbrook was only a MVP in a system that completely revolved around him having the ball all the time and taking every shot.

This team is only going to be a threat to knock off the Nets and win the title if Lebron can still play close to a peak Lebron level. I don't think he can, personally. Age has started to catch up to him and it's shown. AD is a complementary star and requires Lebron to be at peak levels for him to be at his best. As for the rest of the team, Westbrook and a bunch of elderly role players with one foot in the proverbial grave are not going to be the reason the Lakers are title contenders.

The Nets are title favorites and they should be by an even larger margin. Barring injury they should win the title next year.

[LakersSquadup]

Imagine being salary dumped twice in the last two years, having a TS% under 50% in each of your last 4 playoff appearances, setting career or near career lows in everything from shooting % at the FT/2/3 to turnover rate, playing 65 games (out of 72) healthy but not getting on any all NBA team, and having people arguing you're still an MVP caliber player.

CP3 was salary dumped twice and just lead a team to the finals so that argument point is dead. Ahhh the fg% argument those are things predicated on a lot of things and can be addressed easily unless your clearly washed but seeing that he was still good enough to avg 22ppg 11rpg and 12 apg while carrying a team to the playoffs I’ll say fg% is a weak argument. Ok let’s talk Turnovers. Doncic was right behind him 4.2 per game while avg 4 less assist. No one will tell you doncic is washed. They actually have him as this season possible MVP.

Paul was salary dumped once. And it was for injury and bad personality fit, not performance when healthy.

Yes, if Westbrook just made more shots and missed fewer shots, it would make him a better player. I mean, if I made enough more shots and missed enough fewer shots, I could win MVP. It's just that simple.

But thanks for making my point about turnovers. Doncic now and Westbrook in his prime had similar turnover rates (15-16%), and now Westbrook's rate is the highest of his career (18%).

Dude stop it. He was dumped by Houston then dumped by OKC back to back years. You’re biased and it shows. Get out here with that % talk and Russ is still in his prime. Doncic 4.2 turnover (8.6) Russ 4.8 turners (11.7ast) you trying to argue other wise like it supports your argument is laughable