Should Fred Van Vleet be an all-star?

[ForeverTFC]

No. Not good enough and raptors are 10th seed. Maybe if they were top 3 team.

We’re tied for 8th seed and just half a game back from 7th seed lol

Some of you are just spewing BS

That was their record before last night's game genius.. regardless how is he going to be selected as 20/6 guy playing huge minutes as all-star over multiple time all-stars putting up better numbers on better record teams? He is not.

Name 12 player that fit this criteria. I bet you can't.

Lavine, DeRozan, KD, Harden, Giannis, Jrue, Butler, Embiid, Allen. That's 9 players on teams seeded 1-6 with better records than the Raptors that will make the all-star team.

7-10 seeds have pretty much identical records and swap on any given night: Washington, Charlotte, Toronto, Boston. the only names even approaching the criteria of " multiple time all-stars" on these teams include Beal, Tatum, Brown, and Hayward. FVV has been better than all of them this season and has pretty much the same record as them. I'd even argue Garland over some of these names this season and would make a pretty compelling case. Just stop with the nonsense.

[everdiso]

Going by RAPTOR then Derrick White, Steven Adams, D-Lo, Alex Caruso, Derrick Rose, Marcus Smart, Alec Burks, Jarred Vanderbilt are all All Star players.

Going by EPM then Javale Mcgee, Gary Payton II, Isiah Hartenstein, Kevin Love, Mike Muscala should all be all stars.

And so on and so forth.

Look he’s a fringe all star but not even close to all nba.

1. None of those guys are at the top of ALL the metrics like Fred is

2. Yes it's easy for small-role small-minutes to put up gaudy impact metrics. This is irrelevant to Fred, who plays the most minutes in the league, as a primary ballhandler.

Pretty much all those guys are playing large mins aside from Hartenstein and Muscala.

He’s not an All NBA guy, no matter how much you want it to happen. I’ll bet my house that he won’t make all nba this season.

No, almost none of those are guys are playing large minutes. Only one is even playing full time starter minutes, Smart, and he's an extreme low usage outlier.

Most of the guys you names are jn the mid 20s in minutes, some even in the teens. You should be embarrassed you even mentioned them.

And again, none of those names you listed are elite in every advanced stat, like Fred is.

[AussieCeltic]

1. None of those guys are at the top of ALL the metrics like Fred is

2. Yes it's easy for small-role small-minutes to put up gaudy impact metrics. This is irrelevant to Fred, who plays the most minutes in the league, as a primary ballhandler.

Pretty much all those guys are playing large mins aside from Hartenstein and Muscala.

He’s not an All NBA guy, no matter how much you want it to happen. I’ll bet my house that he won’t make all nba this season.

No, almost none of those are guys are playing large minutes. Only one is even playing full time starter minutes, Smart, and he's an extreme low usage outlier.

Most of the guys you names are jn the mid 20s in minutes, some even in the teens. You should be embarrassed you even mentioned them.

And again, none of those names you listed are elite in every advanced stat, like Fred is.

You should be embarrassed for saying he’s an All NBA player. Seriously the worst take on this board.

[everdiso]

Pretty much all those guys are playing large mins aside from Hartenstein and Muscala.

He’s not an All NBA guy, no matter how much you want it to happen. I’ll bet my house that he won’t make all nba this season.

No, almost none of those are guys are playing large minutes. Only one is even playing full time starter minutes, Smart, and he's an extreme low usage outlier.

Most of the guys you names are jn the mid 20s in minutes, some even in the teens. You should be embarrassed you even mentioned them.

And again, none of those names you listed are elite in every advanced stat, like Fred is.

You should be embarrassed for saying he’s an All NBA player. Seriously the worst take on this board.

A take with good evidence is never a bad take.


And the fact that you can't even find one other fulltime starter with comparable advanced stats to Fred that you don't consider a star should probably tell you something.

[WindyCityBorn]

If Fred keeps this up and Raptors pile up more wins before voting ends, I can see it. I mean if guys like Trae, LaMelo, Beal are being pencilled in as all-stars, I don’t see why Fred can’t get some consideration

LaVine and DeRozan are just about locks for the ASG and Harden will likely get in too even if he doesn’t deserve it. JRue Holiday has a very strong argument over VF as well. Some deserving players will get left out.

[Duffman100]

It’s Lowry all over again.

[AussieCeltic]

No, almost none of those are guys are playing large minutes. Only one is even playing full time starter minutes, Smart, and he's an extreme low usage outlier.

Most of the guys you names are jn the mid 20s in minutes, some even in the teens. You should be embarrassed you even mentioned them.

And again, none of those names you listed are elite in every advanced stat, like Fred is.

You should be embarrassed for saying he’s an All NBA player. Seriously the worst take on this board.

A take with good evidence is never a bad take.


And the fact that you can't even find one other fulltime starter with comparable advanced stats to Fred that you don't consider a star should probably tell you something.

To be all nba, he’d need to be in the top 6 of these guys.

- Curry
- Harden
- Lavine
- Derozan
- Paul
- Doncic
- Beal
- Booker
- Mitchell
- Holiday
- Lillard
- Morant
- Garland
- Young
- Ball


Go on. Tell me who is missing out if FVV is getting in. I would love to hear your take on this.

As I said, fringe all star yes, ALL NBA? Hell no

[pingpongrac]

Fred league ranks, before tonight:

Raptor #5
EPM #9
TPA #15
DPM #26
Lebron #30


The question isn't whether he should make the all-star team, but which All-NBA team he should make.

Going by RAPTOR then Derrick White, Steven Adams, D-Lo, Alex Caruso, Derrick Rose, Marcus Smart, Alec Burks, Jarred Vanderbilt are all All Star players.

Going by EPM then Javale Mcgee, Gary Payton II, Isiah Hartenstein, Kevin Love, Mike Muscala should all be all stars.

And so on and so forth.

Look he’s a fringe all star but not even close to all nba.

Come on, dude...lol.

First of all, how many of those players you listed are playing significant minutes and/or have a significant role on their team? Most of them are role players averaging 20-30 MPG and scoring 8-12 PPG. The only ones that are even top 3 options on their team are White (14.4/3.5/5.5 on 54 TS%) and Russell (18.7/4.0/6.7 on 51 TS%) -- and FVV blows their numbers away (21.3/4.9/6.7 on 59 TS%). Furthermore, FVV is at the top of the league in numerous advanced stats -- not just one.

In addition to averaging 21/5/7 on great efficiency, FVV is making winning plays all over the floor. He is 1st in the league in deflections and 3rd in loose balls recovered. Toronto's offence is 10 points worse with FVV off the floor and their defence is 10 points worse with FVV off the floor. FVV's +20.2 on/off rating is 2nd in the entire league behind Jokic. These type of things don't go into all-star voting, but it's silly to just dismiss the facts that FVV has been bordering on superstar impact.

This isn't just a matter of a player putting up all-star numbers or having a high impact. FVV is doing both and he has statistically been one of the most important players to his team in the league.

[mademan]

HELL NO! This is a cute story, but the All Star game is for actual stars who lead their teams to wins.

lol theres some Raptors fans who wouldn't trade FVV for Simmons. As many issues as Simmons has, hes a better player than FVV.

I easily wouldnt do it, lol. Im not entirely sure Simmons is clearly a better player; a better talent, sure, but current on court impact? Not entirely clear. If he is better, he's not better enough to overcome the character gap. FVV is the leader of the Raps and one of the culture setters while Simmons is ruining Philly's season. It's a no brainer no for the Raps

[dlts20]

We’re tied for 8th seed and just half a game back from 7th seed lol

Some of you are just spewing BS

That was their record before last night's game genius.. regardless how is he going to be selected as 20/6 guy playing huge minutes as all-star over multiple time all-stars putting up better numbers on better record teams? He is not.

Name 12 player that fit this criteria. I bet you can't.

Lavine, DeRozan, KD, Harden, Giannis, Jrue, Butler, Embiid, Allen. That's 9 players on teams seeded 1-6 with better records than the Raptors that will make the all-star team.

7-10 seeds have pretty much identical records and swap on any given night: Washington, Charlotte, Toronto, Boston. the only names even approaching the criteria of " multiple time all-stars" on these teams include Beal, Tatum, Brown, and Hayward. FVV has been better than all of them this season and has pretty much the same record as them. I'd even argue Garland over some of these names this season and would make a pretty compelling case. Just stop with the nonsense.

He has not been better than Beal

[mademan]

That was their record before last night's game genius.. regardless how is he going to be selected as 20/6 guy playing huge minutes as all-star over multiple time all-stars putting up better numbers on better record teams? He is not.

Name 12 player that fit this criteria. I bet you can't.

Lavine, DeRozan, KD, Harden, Giannis, Jrue, Butler, Embiid, Allen. That's 9 players on teams seeded 1-6 with better records than the Raptors that will make the all-star team.

7-10 seeds have pretty much identical records and swap on any given night: Washington, Charlotte, Toronto, Boston. the only names even approaching the criteria of " multiple time all-stars" on these teams include Beal, Tatum, Brown, and Hayward. FVV has been better than all of them this season and has pretty much the same record as them. I'd even argue Garland over some of these names this season and would make a pretty compelling case. Just stop with the nonsense.

He has not been better than Beal

Better PER/BPM/VORP/On-off...etc

Whether it's box score numbers or impact stats, FVV has Beal beat in every objective measure. He's clearly been better than Beal this season. Only thing Beal has on him is scoring 3 more points on 3 more shots. It's actually very difficult to build an argument for Beal this season over FVV

[Kingsway_fan]

My guess is he will get selected by the coaches....

[Childs]

I think the 17-17 record hurts. There were alot of games the Raptors should of won but didn't; OKC, Pistons, Nets without Harden.

[Bruin]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[Godymas]

based on some of the posting on the first page you would think that the Raptors were not a .500 team and nearing on the 7th seed

Yes he is playing at an All Star level

East All Stars look something like

KD
Harden
Giannis
Embiid
LaVine

Starting 5

Backups

Allen
Jimmy
LaMelo
Tatum
Freddy
Trae
DeRozan

Maybe Beal knocks Freddy out, if Beal keeps up his level of play and Wiz are still up on Raps but Fred has been better than Beal this year

[Alfred]

He has not been better than Beal

How has Beal been better than Fred VanVleet this season?

[Jadoogar]

NO. He's on the fringe, Raptors are a lottery team.

So no Trae Young or Jayson Tatum either right?

[bstein14]

He's a borderline all-star and their are still games to play.

He's likely in the 12-14th best player in the East this season so his chances get bumped up a ton if the east has an injury or two.

The one thing that might hurt him is that guys like Brown and Beal are averaging 24+ PPG and have the reputation of being all-stars... sometimes its hard to break into that first one if its close and you're competing against a perennial all-star.

[Jadoogar]

I think the 17-17 record hurts. There were alot of games the Raptors should of won but didn't; OKC, Pistons, Nets without Harden.

Celtics have a worse record but i bet one of tatum/brown will make it
Hawks are 16-20 and Trae Young is a lock.

[everdiso]

You should be embarrassed for saying he’s an All NBA player. Seriously the worst take on this board.

A take with good evidence is never a bad take.


And the fact that you can't even find one other fulltime starter with comparable advanced stats to Fred that you don't consider a star should probably tell you something.

To be all nba, he’d need to be in the top 6 of these guys.

- Curry
- Harden
- Lavine
- Derozan
- Paul
- Doncic
- Beal
- Booker
- Mitchell
- Holiday
- Lillard
- Morant
- Garland
- Young
- Ball


Go on. Tell me who is missing out if FVV is getting in. I would love to hear your take on this.

As I said, fringe all star yes, ALL NBA? Hell no

Is that a list of just names? Or just scorers? Not sure where you're going exactly.

If we look at guys that play legit full-time starter minutes (I.e. bare minimum 31mpg), here's what the different analytics thinks about guards:

Raptor:

NBA1: Curry 8.0 ---- VanVleet 7.9
NBA2: Holiday 6.2 - Young 4.6
NBA3: Russell 4.5 -- Butler 4.4
HM: Garland 3.9 --- Ball 3.9

EPM

NBA1: Curry 8.1 --- VanVleet 5.6
NBA2: Mitchell 4.9 --- Butler 5.3
NBA3: Holiday 4.8 --- Young 4.8
HM: Paul 4.6 --- Harden 4.2

Lebron

NBA1: Curry 4.9 --- Butler 4.5
NBA2: Paul 3.6 --- Harden 3.3
NBA3: Mitchell 3.1 --- Holiday 3.1
HM: Murray 2.7 --- VanVleet 2.6

DPM

NBA1: Curry 5.1 --- Lillard 4.4
NBA2: Irving 4.0 --- Harden 3.9
NBA3: Holiday 3.9 --- Paul 3.8
HM: Mitchell 3.4 --- Butler 3.4
HM2: Booker 3.2 --- Conley 3.0
HM3: Young 2.9 --- VanVleet 2.8



I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the only name on any of those lists that upsets you is Fred VanVleet.