Can a case be made that Larry Bird was the GOAT ?

[Fencer reregistered]

No. Bill Russell is the GOAT.

I agree about Russell, but there's a CASE for Bird.

You can't reasonably call Bird the GOAT unless:

-- You favor peak over longevity.
-- You're looking only at actual play, rather than transformative impact to the game.

But under those two assumptions, Bird is a contender for GOAT.

[bradybunch]

I swear on my life I had a dream last night that involved Larry Bird lol.

It was an old timers vs young stars game and Larry was drilling them. Crowd was going nuts.

Life is weird lol

[BK_2020]

No. Bill Russell is the GOAT.

I agree about Russell, but there's a CASE for Bird.

You can't reasonably call Bird the GOAT unless:

-- You favor peak over longevity.
-- You're looking only at actual play, rather than transformative impact to the game.

But under those two assumptions, Bird is a contender for GOAT.

Bird's peak isn't really that good. Guys like KD and Lebron have at least 5-6 better seasons than Bird's best season.

[Clyde Frazier]

Weak longevity and a bit of a shaky playoff career, relatively speaking. I laugh when anyone tries to push him out of the top 10 tho.

[TheNG]

I personally think only 3 players have a case for being GOAT. They are the only three players to have at least 6 rings and 5 MVPs.
But some people think LeBron has a case. And I say - if LeBron has a case, then Larry Bird easily has a case.

[whatever_]

Don't think so but this video of his highlights must be the GOAT in its category

Watch on YouTube

[Fencer reregistered]

No. Bill Russell is the GOAT.

I agree about Russell, but there's a CASE for Bird.

You can't reasonably call Bird the GOAT unless:

-- You favor peak over longevity.
-- You're looking only at actual play, rather than transformative impact to the game.

But under those two assumptions, Bird is a contender for GOAT.

Bird's peak isn't really that good. Guys like KD and Lebron have at least 5-6 better seasons than Bird's best season.

What criteria are you using for "better"?

[slick_watts]

no.

[macNcheese3]

Larry is a legend however he didn't play long enough, injuries got the best of him.

[Curmudgeon]

I will say this about Bird: he was the best player I ever saw in the last two minutes of a close game.

[Topofthekey]

Is he even the GOAT among forwards?

If building a team for a 7 game series, do you take him over LeBron? Durant?

[BK_2020]

I agree about Russell, but there's a CASE for Bird.

You can't reasonably call Bird the GOAT unless:

-- You favor peak over longevity.
-- You're looking only at actual play, rather than transformative impact to the game.

But under those two assumptions, Bird is a contender for GOAT.

Bird's peak isn't really that good. Guys like KD and Lebron have at least 5-6 better seasons than Bird's best season.

What criteria are you using for "better"?

Stats? What criteria are you using to argue that Bird's peak seasons make him a contender for GOAT?

[Woodsanity]

None whatsoever. He has weak longevity and he doesn't have a top 3-5 peak all time and he doesn't have the most accolades either.
Top 10 player but no argument for GOAT

[Fencer reregistered]

Bird's peak isn't really that good. Guys like KD and Lebron have at least 5-6 better seasons than Bird's best season.

What criteria are you using for "better"?

Stats? What criteria are you using to argue that Bird's peak seasons make him a contender for GOAT?

Stats should be viewed in the context of their era. Bird led the league in offensive win shares and defensive win shares the same year. Lebron never did that.

Three straight MVPs also shows that Bird, rightly or wrongly. was GOATish in peak contemporary accolades, although Russell, Wilt, Jordan, Lebron and, yes, Durant are pretty competitive with that.

Yes, the eye test supports any numbers that seem to show Durant is truly a better scorer than Bird. But KD generally isn't more than "solidly competent" at other aspects of the game.

I will however grant that LeBron is very competitive with Bird as an all-around player just at peak, and clearly higher on the GOAT lists when we consider longevity.

[BK_2020]

What criteria are you using for "better"?

Stats? What criteria are you using to argue that Bird's peak seasons make him a contender for GOAT?

Stats should be viewed in the context of their era. Bird led the league in offensive win shares and defensive win shares the same year. Lebron never did that.

Three straight MVPs also shows that Bird, rightly or wrongly. was GOATish in peak contemporary accolades, although Russell, Wilt, Jordan, Lebron and, yes, Durant are pretty competitive with that.

Yes, the eye test supports any numbers that seem to show Durant is truly a better scorer than Bird. But KD generally isn't more than "solidly competent" at other aspects of the game.

I will however grant that LeBron is very competitive with Bird as an all-around player just at peak, and clearly higher on the GOAT lists when we consider longevity.

Lebron's peak seasons kind of blow Bird's peak seasons out of the water. 30-9-7 as a 23 year old is just insane and nothing Bird did comes close.

Prime KD and Lebron were also far more efficient than Prime Bird. In Bird's best seasons (30 and 31 years old) he had TS+ of 113 and 114. For his career, Bird's TS+ is a fairly pedestrian 105. Other than his 19 year old rookie season, every single one of KD's seasons had better TS+ than 105. TS+ of 114 would be the 9th most efficient season in KD's career so far.

[chrisab123]

Bird could and did tell players guarding him what he is going to and did it. Thats GOAT level ish.

[audiosway]

Absolutely it can be. My favorite player of all time for sure.

[BostonCouchGM]

of all the laughable things said, the claim that he has less than stellar post season performance might be up there with some of the dumber things I've read on this forum.

People DO realize he won two Finals MVPs right?

That he averaged 24-10-7 in the playoffs which mirror his regular season numbers?

That he broke his fingers on his shooting hand in a bar-fight during the 1985 ECF which is why his numbers (21-7-6) were lower that series?

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/larry-bird-injured-his-finger-in-a-bar-fight-won-160-in-a-free-throw-shooting-contest-with-his-hand-taped-up-and-then-played-the-next-night-with-the-money-in-his-shoe

that, prior to that incident, he averaged 35-11-6 in the first round and then 28-10-6 in the 2nd round?

it's almost like some of you have no idea what you're talking about ha ha ha

[BostonCouchGM]

Stats? What criteria are you using to argue that Bird's peak seasons make him a contender for GOAT?

Stats should be viewed in the context of their era. Bird led the league in offensive win shares and defensive win shares the same year. Lebron never did that.

Three straight MVPs also shows that Bird, rightly or wrongly. was GOATish in peak contemporary accolades, although Russell, Wilt, Jordan, Lebron and, yes, Durant are pretty competitive with that.

Yes, the eye test supports any numbers that seem to show Durant is truly a better scorer than Bird. But KD generally isn't more than "solidly competent" at other aspects of the game.

I will however grant that LeBron is very competitive with Bird as an all-around player just at peak, and clearly higher on the GOAT lists when we consider longevity.

Lebron's peak seasons kind of blow Bird's peak seasons out of the water. 30-9-7 as a 23 year old is just insane and nothing Bird did comes close.

Prime KD and Lebron were also far more efficient than Prime Bird. In Bird's best seasons (30 and 31 years old) he had TS+ of 113 and 114. For his career, Bird's TS+ is a fairly pedestrian 105. Other than his 19 year old rookie season, every single one of KD's seasons had better TS+ than 105. TS+ of 114 would be the 9th most efficient season in KD's career so far.

completely different game. Defense outlawed. Offensive players allowed to carry, travel, push off and utilize moving screens. Much tougher league and competition. Nobody stat-padded. And yet STILL, Bird's peak seasons are comparable.

[BK_2020]

Stats should be viewed in the context of their era. Bird led the league in offensive win shares and defensive win shares the same year. Lebron never did that.

Three straight MVPs also shows that Bird, rightly or wrongly. was GOATish in peak contemporary accolades, although Russell, Wilt, Jordan, Lebron and, yes, Durant are pretty competitive with that.

Yes, the eye test supports any numbers that seem to show Durant is truly a better scorer than Bird. But KD generally isn't more than "solidly competent" at other aspects of the game.

I will however grant that LeBron is very competitive with Bird as an all-around player just at peak, and clearly higher on the GOAT lists when we consider longevity.

Lebron's peak seasons kind of blow Bird's peak seasons out of the water. 30-9-7 as a 23 year old is just insane and nothing Bird did comes close.

Prime KD and Lebron were also far more efficient than Prime Bird. In Bird's best seasons (30 and 31 years old) he had TS+ of 113 and 114. For his career, Bird's TS+ is a fairly pedestrian 105. Other than his 19 year old rookie season, every single one of KD's seasons had better TS+ than 105. TS+ of 114 would be the 9th most efficient season in KD's career so far.

completely different game. Defense outlawed. Offensive players allowed to carry, travel, push off and utilize moving screens. Much tougher league and competition. Nobody stat-padded. And yet STILL, Bird's peak seasons are comparable.

TS+ is TS% adjusted for the era.