B-b-b-but Heat don't have a superstar!

[turnaroundJ]

Great comeback playoffs for Jimmy. I knew that 2021 wasn’t telling of him or of Miami. It’s been said a lot but they’re really needed a full off-season.

[sca]

Honestly, who gives a ****? His team is winning and won again today. He was a waste of space the past couple of playoffs when it really counted, but he is bringing it so far this post season and really thats all that matters.

The past couple of playoffs? Like in 2020 when his team made it to the Finals and he had a 40 point triple double? Or 2019 when he led the 76ers in points and assists in the series against the Raptors when it took a crazy shot by Kawhi to beat them?

Yes, exactly the playoffs where he got murdered by Kawhi in that series and then his team got steamrolled in the finals (yes I know it was a generous 4-2, but they were never gonna win). He got outplayed by kawhi. He got outplayed by Bron. But as I said, it means nothing now, cos right now he is killing

TBH everybody was outplayed by Kawhi that year. Jimmy was Philly's best player in that series and they ran everything through him. Not to mention that as good as he was, he had never reached the level he's been playing in these play-offs.

[Pachinko_]

I mean they don't. Jimmy Butler's probably my favorite player but he's never had the skillset of a superstar.. he makes up for it by being the mentally toughest guy on the court and has a knack for rising to the occasion in big moments. Similar to Reggie Miller in that way.. completely different player obviously but also a guy that makes you go "huh? that's it?" when you look at his regular season numbers.

Both guys are chronic overachievers and winners despite arguably never at any point in their careers having been one of the top 10 players in the league. Sadly Reggie and the Pacers could never quite get over the hump.. here's to hoping Jimmy and the Heat will.

He wasn't a superstar. I was thinking the same as you, he's always been kind of a medium usage, good efficiency jack of all trades sort of thing. But if you look at what he's doing this year at 32 in those playoffs, he's literally a different guy.
30% usage with 62% true shooting, bunch or rebounds, great D, these are Lebron-ish numbers.

Only question is, can he keep it up all the way. Because if he can this is definitely superstar performance IMO.

[TheGOATRises007]

They don't. A 40 point game against the 8th seed doesn't change that

Do they have 1 now?

[NO-KG-AI]

How many superstars do you think are in the league right now OP? Serious question.

[BBallFreak]

How many superstars do you think are in the league right now OP? Serious question.

Why would that matter if Jimmy is legit playing like one? At this point, it would take a legitimate hater to say he's not. Are there 3 guys who've had a better post season than Jimmy?

[NO-KG-AI]

How many superstars do you think are in the league right now OP? Serious question.

Why would that matter if Jimmy is legit playing like one? At this point, it would take a legitimate hater to say he's not. Are there 3 guys who've had a better post season than Jimmy?

I think people are arguing in here because they all have different definitions of what a superstar is, so I was curious as to how many people the OP thinks is a superstar since he's in here trying to mock everyone that thinks otherwise.

[BBallFreak]

How many superstars do you think are in the league right now OP? Serious question.

Why would that matter if Jimmy is legit playing like one? At this point, it would take a legitimate hater to say he's not. Are there 3 guys who've had a better post season than Jimmy?

I think people are arguing in here because they all have different definitions of what a superstar is, so I was curious as to how many people the OP thinks is a superstar since he's in here trying to mock everyone that thinks otherwise.

He's got a point if you're definition of a superstar is enhancing a great team culture, empowering the players around you, putting up superstar numbers when it matters the most, playing fantastic defense, and carrying your team on a deep playoff run.

Jimmy doesn't care about his numbers. That's what a lot of people don't seem to understand about him. We've seen many games where he scores 5 points on 8 shots and dishes out 11 assists, but Herro, Strus or Vincent go for 28 and the team wins easily. He's a different type of superstar, but he clearly is one. It's time to give the man his due and recognize who he is as a player...

[NO-KG-AI]

Why would that matter if Jimmy is legit playing like one? At this point, it would take a legitimate hater to say he's not. Are there 3 guys who've had a better post season than Jimmy?

I think people are arguing in here because they all have different definitions of what a superstar is, so I was curious as to how many people the OP thinks is a superstar since he's in here trying to mock everyone that thinks otherwise.

He's got a point if you're definition of a superstar is enhancing a great team culture, empowering the players around you, putting up superstar numbers when it matters the most, playing fantastic defense, and carrying your team on a deep playoff run.

Jimmy doesn't care about his numbers. That's what a lot of people don't seem to understand about him. We've seen many games where he scores 5 points on 8 shots and dishes out 11 assists, but Herro, Strus or Vincent go for 28 and the team wins easily. He's a different type of superstar, but he clearly is one. It's time to give the man his due and recognize who he is as a player...

That's your definition of a superstar, and that guy is fine in very rare and specialized circumstances.

Mine is a guy that is a perennial MVP threat, a virtual lock for high all NBA honors, and someone that can and will annually carry a team's offense or defense(or both) if needed in both the regular and post season. Guys that can't scratch top 10 MVP voting, or can't get above all NBA 3rd team are no what I consider superstar level talents.

If Jimmy was foregoing getting big numbers and won so many titles that we couldn't deny it, it would be one thing. As his, he's an all NBA 3rd team guy, a guy that had a single 10th place MVP finish in 12 seasons, and a finals appearance. I don't think those accolades are underrating what he's done, I think he's comfortably in that realm.

I also think he's a lot better than some guys that are clearly more talented overall because of his approach to the game and his mindset. He just doesn't make the cut for Superstar for what I consider one, but it's fine if he makes it for someone else. He's comfortably an all star, capable as a first option, and can function fluidly next to other top scorers/option A style players. He's a perfect fit for the Heat in terms of what the front office wants from their star player.

[Ice Man]

In general, the debate of whether Butler is a superstar resembles the 1990s debate over whether Scottie Pippen was one. Both guys are at their essence complementary players. Absolute deluxe 2nd options. They can do everything you want in a basketball player except for reliably score 30+. Part of that being their skill sets, partially their personalities.

In 1994, Scottie got the chance to be the first option and led the team during the regular season in scoring, rebounds, assists, steals, everything. As Butler is now doing for Miami. Scottie also played well in the playoffs, although not as well as Jimmy is playing this year. But he didn't quite have the supporting cast to get past a tough 2nd round matchup with the Knicks.

Bulls fans, of course, think its sacrilege to put the two players into the same discussion. I need to hide out on the General Board to write something like that. But I do think the comparison is broadly useful. I also think that if Scottie had spent more time as a #1 option he would have learned how to grow more offensively selfish, when the team requires it, as Butler now realizes he must do.

[BBallFreak]

I think people are arguing in here because they all have different definitions of what a superstar is, so I was curious as to how many people the OP thinks is a superstar since he's in here trying to mock everyone that thinks otherwise.

He's got a point if you're definition of a superstar is enhancing a great team culture, empowering the players around you, putting up superstar numbers when it matters the most, playing fantastic defense, and carrying your team on a deep playoff run.

Jimmy doesn't care about his numbers. That's what a lot of people don't seem to understand about him. We've seen many games where he scores 5 points on 8 shots and dishes out 11 assists, but Herro, Strus or Vincent go for 28 and the team wins easily. He's a different type of superstar, but he clearly is one. It's time to give the man his due and recognize who he is as a player...

That's your definition of a superstar, and that guy is fine in very rare and specialized circumstances.

Mine is a guy that is a perennial MVP threat, a virtual lock for high all NBA honors, and someone that can and will annually carry a team's offense or defense(or both) if needed in both the regular and post season. Guys that can't scratch top 10 MVP voting, or can't get above all NBA 3rd team are no what I consider superstar level talents.

If Jimmy was foregoing getting big numbers and won so many titles that we couldn't deny it, it would be one thing. As his, he's an all NBA 3rd team guy, a guy that had a single 10th place MVP finish in 12 seasons, and a finals appearance. I don't think those accolades are underrating what he's done, I think he's comfortably in that realm.

I also think he's a lot better than some guys that are clearly more talented overall because of his approach to the game and his mindset. He just doesn't make the cut for Superstar for what I consider one, but it's fine if he makes it for someone else. He's comfortably an all star, capable as a first option, and can function fluidly next to other top scorers/option A style players. He's a perfect fit for the Heat in terms of what the front office wants from their star player.

I don't know how you deny what he's doing is superstar level, but that's your choice. We'll ride our tier two star as far as he'll take us, which is apparently pretty damn far. I'm quite pleased with our glorified role player...

[cupcakesnake]

I dont think any reasonable person wasn't aware of what Jimmy Butler is capable of. The concern with the Heat was always just age and health. It wasn't "can Jimmy Butler play like a superstar in the playoffs?" it was "can he still".

Butler is often banged UP. He followed up his bubble blast by getting swept and averaging 14ppg on sub 30% shooting. Even Butler fans have had to be worried from him.

But also I don't think anyone quite saw this level of scoring coming. The first 2 rounds of these playoffs were Butler's biggest scoring series' by far. Butler averaged 25ppg back in 2015, and 26ppg in the bubble finals. He put up 30ppg on 63%ts against Atlanta, 27ppg on 60%ts against Phili. And right before anyone could point out "well those aren't exactly great defenses" he opens with a 40 piece on the Celtics (minutes Horford and Smart but the Time Lord hath returned).

Yeah if people thought Jimmy was spent they were wrong. But OP acting like anyone should have known about 30ppg Butler is clowning himself. This is off the Butler charts. Congrats to anyone who bought shares early in Big Face Coffee.

[Statlanta]

We’ll see his numbers are when he has to play close out or elimination games.

[kuclas]

Jimmy has “learned” how to play playoff basketball. It’s a growing process. Some people think these players have to figure it out by age 26/27 “hot takes”. Sure some guys figure it out early like Lebron Kobe and to a certain extent Giannis and even Luka at this point.

But I think jimmy started figuring it out in 2019 and still grew a lot in 2020 finals run and he’s just putting it all together in 2022.

He was super efficient last night especially getting to the free throw line.

Even in games he wasn’t efficient like taking 29 shots Vs sixers game 6 close out. He made the shots when he needed to to blow the game up and keep the lead growing.

Heat just need the maintain the intensity. And they got a shot to win it all.

[hugepatsfan]

Jimmy Butler is and has been a fantastic player but he's never consistently been a "superstar" by what most define that as. But he's good enough to play like one in spurts and he's doing that now. Still though, if Butler leads a team to a title only the 03-04 Pistons team would have been led by a lesser player since the 80s. Every other title team since then had a top 30ish player all time per any rankings list on them. Butler is not that guy.

That doesn't mean it's impossible. And honestly, people should just enjoy something so improbable happening in a league where everyone complains that all the superstars play in the same markets and unless you're one of them you have no shot. People should embrace it if MIA wins with Butler as proof that you don't need a superstar like Lebron or Durant to bless your team with their presence to win and that if you build a deep, well-rounded roster with a great scheme and team commitment then you can win even with guys who aren't superstars.

[NoStatsGuy]

Lol @ all the fans that took useless lifer Haslem’s side over the Heat’s Star player. Unreal.

thats what i find funny aswell.

wonder if these guys still want haslem over jimmy on their team.

[NoStatsGuy]

I don't know how you deny what he's doing is superstar level, but that's your choice. We'll ride our tier two star as far as he'll take us, which is apparently pretty damn far. I'm quite pleased with our glorified role player...

yo we have some roleplayers on the team. id be down to swap around a bit!!

jokes aside, i totally agree with you.

the label superstar can come in many forms and colors. Jimmy is 100% playing like a superstar right now and did many times before.

we wanna put tatum in there, donnie mitchell and many other people. but jimmy is a step above all these guys. could be recency bias with tatum and his atrocious performance last game and Tatum has everything to be a superstar but jimmy already prove he can lead a team to the finals. tatum did not.

[Bornstellar]

They don't. A 40 point game against the 8th seed doesn't change that

Do they have 1 now?

No. Jimmy is not a superstar

[ken6199]

Superstar is a blurry concept. It also depends on what you tiers are, do you have a megastar tier above it? If not, superstar as the highest tier of player which I believe for most of people, are regular MVP candidates, consensus league top 5 or top 10 players, does Butler belong to those? Even that's a tough question because somebody value "play well when it matters" more than others. Someone like me, I believe a full regular season of 82 games are also "when it matters" games, and four all-NBA 3rd team selections, one player of the month, averaging 62 games per season having played 70+ only twice in his 11 year career, that's not a superstar player in my book.

I know Butler is playing at an insane level and by saying he is not a superstar is an unpopular opinion, but that's my opinion. I do find some of the Heat posters opinions of rating Butler as superstar enriching because I agree that he fulfills everything this Heat team need from him.

[tsherkin]

I don't know how you deny what he's doing is superstar level, but that's your choice. We'll ride our tier two star as far as he'll take us, which is apparently pretty damn far. I'm quite pleased with our glorified role player...

I don't think NO-KG is trying to take shots at Butler or trying to call him a glorified roleplayer. I think, and he'll correct me if I"m wrong, that there are two distinct tiers of player who could potential feature prominently at the front of a title-contending team. A superstar is, at least in my mind, an ATG type of player, not "just" someone you can build around for a title run. Butler is certainly playing like a dude who can be at the front of your offense and bringing the D and all that. He looks great. I also think (and YMMV, naturally) that superstars need to have a couple years of playing at a given level before that label really starts to make sense, rather than emphasizing a really impressive peak alone. But that wouldn't diminish a player if he had a standout season and never got back to that, because the team in question would still do as well as they did, you know what I mean?

For most, I presume it's just going to take some time to adjust to the idea that someone might be entering a new tier. This could very well be Butler's coming out party. I'd like to see him perform like this for an actual regular season before worrying about calling him a superstar, but we do often season postseason performances as precursors to players filling new roles and attaining new heights the year after, so...