Post-Mortem: 2021-22 Miami Heat

Flash4thewin · Post #81 » by **Flash4thewin** » Mon May 30, 2022 2:44 pm

harlem_ball wrote:Miami must go for either Donovan Mitchell or Lavine. They need a second star.

How? With what assets that won't be beat by another team?

harlem_ball · Post #82 » by **harlem_ball** » Mon May 30, 2022 2:46 pm

Flash4thewin wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:Miami must go for either Donovan Mitchell or Lavine. They need a second star.

How? With what assets that won't be beat by another team?

twozeroMM · Post #83 » by **twozeroMM** » Mon May 30, 2022 3:20 pm

Flash4thewin wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:Miami must go for either Donovan Mitchell or Lavine. They need a second star.

How? With what assets that won't be beat by another team?

They would have to Harden their way to us.

R-DAWG · Post #84 » by **R-DAWG** » Mon May 30, 2022 3:26 pm

Kurtz wrote:I don't think they need a big change - just need a bit more playable size and secondary scoring. Something around Duncan Robinson+Herro for Julius Randle might be a win-win. He'd fit their physical style and adds a little bit of secondary playmaking. Oladipo can take over the Herro role, as he'll likely look better next year.

Herro is too much to give up in this trade, but something like Robinson + a draft pick for Randle could have merit. I'm not sure the Knicks would have any interest in that contract tho and might counter back with using Oladipo's bird rights in a sign and trade. But Randle is the kind of low cost, secondary scoring option that a team like Miami can justify rolling the dice on, especially if it gets them off the Duncan Robinson contract.

Also - the Robinson/Lowry for Westbrook thing could make some sense. Westbrook is a better fit on the Heat roster and worst case for Miami, they get off the Lowry/Robinson contracts. Lakers bank on Lowry being a better fit with their group and Robinson being a servable shooter.

Run out a lineup of Westbrook-Butler-Tucker-Randle-Bam with Herro, Struss, and Vincent coming off the bench. The lineup is a little light on shooting, but plays Miami Heat style defense with more shot creation than they currently have. More importantly, they clean up the books long term.

It's a tough balance for Miami to strike as the window to win around Jimmy given his age is limited, but you also don't want to rush into anything that sets you back during a rebuild that is 2-3 years away. Unless you get a Dame Lillard type who forces his way to Miami in a trade - which given where the league is today very well could happen - it's hard to justify going all-in rather than just being economical around the edges.

Marmoset · Post #85 » by **Marmoset** » Mon May 30, 2022 3:36 pm

The Heat went to the last minute of Game 7 being banged up and probably having no business making this series as competitive as it was. You have to be very happy with the effort and with the realization that a healthy Heat team very likely goes to the Finals.

That said - when you have key players that are getting up there in age (or injury prone), injuries are a risk. Herro doesn't fall into that category, he just got hurt, but Lowry, Butler, Tucker, Oladipo sure do. It can work - the Lakers won a title - but more often it doesn't. Then again, that depends if you consider the Heat's season to be successful or not for making it this far.

The Heat look a lot like the Raptors of a couple years ago to me, and not just because they have Kyle Lowry. They have key older players, they're competitive, they have trouble scoring at times, and you can see that the current core is probably nearing it's end as a whole. However, like the Raptors I don't see a rebuild, just a retool, because they have some good young players and don't need scorched Earth. That said, after you came within seconds of making the Finals, you have to go for it and try and get there again unless something happens like the equivalent of the Raptors' Tampa season. The retool can wait another year or two.

timO · Post #86 » by **timO** » Mon May 30, 2022 3:42 pm

Trade Herro, he doesnt deserve the money he will demand. Trade Lowry and Robinson too.

Sign oladipo for MLE or not much more.

timO · Post #87 » by **timO** » Mon May 30, 2022 3:46 pm

R-DAWG wrote:
Kurtz wrote:I don't think they need a big change - just need a bit more playable size and secondary scoring. Something around Duncan Robinson+Herro for Julius Randle might be a win-win. He'd fit their physical style and adds a little bit of secondary playmaking. Oladipo can take over the Herro role, as he'll likely look better next year.

Herro is too much to give up in this trade, but something like Robinson + a draft pick for Randle could have merit. I'm not sure the Knicks would have any interest in that contract tho and might counter back with using Oladipo's bird rights in a sign and trade. But Randle is the kind of low cost, secondary scoring option that a team like Miami can justify rolling the dice on, especially if it gets them off the Duncan Robinson contract.

Also - the Robinson/Lowry for Westbrook thing could make some sense. Westbrook is a better fit on the Heat roster and worst case for Miami, they get off the Lowry/Robinson contracts. Lakers bank on Lowry being a better fit with their group and Robinson being a servable shooter.

Run out a lineup of Westbrook-Butler-Tucker-Randle-Bam with Herro, Struss, and Vincent coming off the bench. The lineup is a little light on shooting, but plays Miami Heat style defense with more shot creation than they currently have. More importantly, they clean up the books long term.

It's a tough balance for Miami to strike as the window to win around Jimmy given his age is limited, but you also don't want to rush into anything that sets you back during a rebuild that is 2-3 years away. Unless you get a Dame Lillard type who forces his way to Miami in a trade - which given where the league is today very well could happen - it's hard to justify going all-in rather than just being economical around the edges.

Heat are terrible from 3, like LA.

He doesnt fit there.

Russ needs to play with 4 players with >35% from 3.

R-DAWG · Post #88 » by **R-DAWG** » Mon May 30, 2022 3:48 pm

Marmoset wrote:The Heat went to the last minute of Game 7 being banged up and probably having no business making this series as competitive as it was. You have to be very happy with the effort and with the realization that a healthy Heat team very likely goes to the Finals.

That said - when you have key players that are getting up there in age (or injury prone), injuries are a risk. Herro doesn't fall into that category, he just got hurt, but Lowry, Butler, Tucker, Oladipo sure do. It can work - the Lakers won a title - but more often it doesn't. Then again, that depends if you consider the Heat's season to be successful or not for making it this far.

The Heat look a lot like the Raptors of a couple years ago to me, and not just because they have Kyle Lowry. They have key older players, they're competitive, they have trouble scoring at times, and you can see that the current core is probably nearing it's end as a whole. However, like the Raptors I don't see a rebuild, just a retool, because they have some good young players and don't need scorched Earth. That said, after you came within seconds of making the Finals, you have to go for it and try and get there again unless something happens like the equivalent of the Raptors' Tampa season. The retool can wait another year or two.

If Kyle Lowry was Kyle Lowry of a couple of years ago - like he was in game 6 - the Heat win this series. They brought him in to be the 2nd star level player next to Butler, and weather it was injuries, age or being out of shape - or a combination of the 3 - he was borderline unplayable most of the playoffs.

hugepatsfan · Post #89 » by **hugepatsfan** » Mon May 30, 2022 4:11 pm

I think their roster is very "rigid". They have a great style of play and everyone is tailor made for their role in it. But when they get knocked off their game, I just don't see guys on that team who can scale up their roles. We know Jimmy is a monster, but they don't have a good enough #2/#3 IMO to get away with that.

I know Herro was hurt, but even before that he was down at 27 minutes/game in the playoffs. He's their #2 scorer. They need him to be a guy whose minutes go up in the playoffs with a shorter rotation not a guy whose minutes go down because he can't defend. That's not going to get it done for them. Bam I thought really got exposed. He was very poor offensive performer against starting centers this whole run.

If they can't pencil in night in and night out production from those guys as their #2 and #3, then you need guys behind them who can scale up. Lowry at this age, Tucker, Strus, Vincent, post-injury Oladipo are all good players but I don't think any of them are guys who can get you buckets with any volume. Their offensive output is predicated on the stars doing what they do so they can settle into their role player roles. They're just too limited to do more.

They need to either make big time moves for better supporting stars or they need to improve their overall skill level on offense.

Heat3 · Post #90 » by **Heat3** » Mon May 30, 2022 5:30 pm

willywazza wrote:It's time for Udonis Haslem to vacate that roster spot and officially become an Assistant Coach.

Need to use his spot for a promising young player or crucial role player that will actually get minutes to contribute.

17th man on the roster a crucial role player?? :roll:

timO wrote:Heat are terrible from 3, like LA.

The Heat where the best 3 pt shooting team in the league this year. They just went cold in the playoffs.

Pharmcat · Post #91 » by **Pharmcat** » Mon May 30, 2022 5:32 pm

Flash4thewin wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:Miami must go for either Donovan Mitchell or Lavine. They need a second star.

How? With what assets that won't be beat by another team?

Never doubt the boss pat riley. Miami is always in play for stars

Post #92 » by **bisme37** » Mon May 30, 2022 5:38 pm

I think this is the first one where I voted that they performed better than expected but are also a waning team. Kind of a weird situation for the Heat, really. Super tough group and hard to beat but not getting any younger and need more weapons.

Gert42 · Post #93 » by **Gert42** » Mon May 30, 2022 5:46 pm

The Heat had a great year. I think the most likely outcome is to run it back next year.

The problem for the Heat is the Butler and Bam make so much money (deservedly), that their assets become:

Lowry 36 (2 years/57M)
Robinson (Essentially 4 years/74.5M, I don't see much of a world he doesn't take the PO Year 4)
Tyler Herro RFA 2023
Max Strus UFA 2023

Riley has shown a history of being able to make deals that may seem unlikely before they occurred, but I can't see anyone wanting this version of Kyle Lowry for multiple years, and I think there would have to be assets attached to take Duncan Robinson right now.

Woodsanity · Post #94 » by **Woodsanity** » Mon May 30, 2022 5:46 pm

They have no real 2nd option. Bam won't cut it and I don't know if Herro can fit that bill. I dont know how they can realistically get that 2nd option though.

Post #95 » by **165bows** » Mon May 30, 2022 6:22 pm

MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Assuming father time finally wins and Lowry becomes a bench player / PJ becomes washed, they have a maxed out roster that is a 5-8 seed next year.

Then again, Miami will probably tamper, get fined with a 2035 second round pick and get Dame on a discount to give them that extra boost to put them back in ECF contenders.

Lillard makes a ton of sense for both teams. Herro, bad salary plus pick/pick swaps ~3 years out. Both teams could get a lot of value out of it.

Elnegron · Post #96 » by **Elnegron** » Mon May 30, 2022 6:58 pm

Mak wrote:Butler does not have a player option anymore, he signed a huge extension. Championship window almost closed for Miami unless they make some kind of crazy move. Robinson contract is horrible and Hero will have to be paid. Maybe it is not too late to trick someone and package Hero + Robinson and picks for some other star? Not sure how Lowry and Butler do better next season a year older.

saying the window is shot is crazy

RTG HD · Post #97 » by **RTG HD** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:12 pm

165bows wrote:
MartyConlonOnTheRun wrote:Assuming father time finally wins and Lowry becomes a bench player / PJ becomes washed, they have a maxed out roster that is a 5-8 seed next year.

Then again, Miami will probably tamper, get fined with a 2035 second round pick and get Dame on a discount to give them that extra boost to put them back in ECF contenders.

Lillard makes a ton of sense for both teams. Herro, bad salary plus pick/pick swaps ~3 years out. Both teams could get a lot of value out of it.

I disagree with the both teams part. Team fans tend to do a poor job of looking at the perspective of the other team they are trying to fleece with their imaginary trades.

Joshyjess · Post #98 » by **Joshyjess** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:19 pm

One big thing going for Miami is that they play in Miami - always a big incentive for players to come play in a city like that. It wouldn't surprise me to see the Heat sign a really good player this off-season to compliement Butler and Bam.

TheAlchemist · Post #99 » by **TheAlchemist** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:26 pm

They need a third banana. Lowry is not the guy at all.

Flash4thewin · Post #100 » by **Flash4thewin** » Mon May 30, 2022 7:36 pm

Pharmcat wrote:
Flash4thewin wrote:
harlem_ball wrote:Miami must go for either Donovan Mitchell or Lavine. They need a second star.

How? With what assets that won't be beat by another team?

Never doubt the boss pat riley. Miami is always in play for stars

I’m a Heat fan, i know very well what he has done before and what he has done recently. It’s just one also needs to be objective and realistic. You can’t trade trash for gold.

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