How good was Julius Erving?

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WillyJakkz
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Re: how good julius ervin 

Post#81 » by WillyJakkz » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:19 pm

dhsilv2 wrote:
CIN-C-STAR wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
The high ranking of KG has everything to do with his mind blowing stats...which paint him as better than Duncan to the chagrin of many of KG's biggest backers. Game film studies that showcase his elite skills that match up to what we expect to see from elite players. How his profile matches again everything we see that maps out to have high impact.

KG is simply put the greatest player in NBA history to simply never get a fair shake in terms of team around him during his apex. We'll likely see more KG like profiles as we move forward with 30+ teams in the league.

As the generations that worshiped Jordan age, there will be less mapping of expectations to "play like Jordan" and with that I expect we'll see a trend towards appreciating the KG's of the world.


Timmy w more ppg on better shooting, more rebounds, more stocks... really KG just has the slight edge in assists and that's about it for traditional stats.
I think the idea of KG is quite a bit more exciting and fun than Duncan, but the reality that played out is even more unequivocal: Duncan was the more dominant player.
And the opinions of the guys who went against both seem to back that up pretty consistently.


Opinions of players are pretty worthless, which has been proven out time and time again.

But yeah one on one Duncan was harder to guard. Nobody will debate that. But there's a bit more to basketball.


Off Dr J Topic: One test that's still opinion based but still viable is the ol' if you put KG on the Spurs and Duncan on the Wolves who has more success argument?
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Re: how good julius ervin 

Post#82 » by dhsilv2 » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:40 pm

WillyJakkz wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
CIN-C-STAR wrote:
Timmy w more ppg on better shooting, more rebounds, more stocks... really KG just has the slight edge in assists and that's about it for traditional stats.
I think the idea of KG is quite a bit more exciting and fun than Duncan, but the reality that played out is even more unequivocal: Duncan was the more dominant player.
And the opinions of the guys who went against both seem to back that up pretty consistently.


Opinions of players are pretty worthless, which has been proven out time and time again.

But yeah one on one Duncan was harder to guard. Nobody will debate that. But there's a bit more to basketball.


Off Dr J Topic: One test that's still opinion based but still viable is the ol' if you put KG on the Spurs and Duncan on the Wolves who has more success argument?


I think both teams are worse for whatever that's worth. Duncan didn't have the motor of KG to fill in every single hole on those trash Wolves teams. KG didn't have the iso scoring that was critical in 2003 for the spurs to win that year. That said I think KG would have been better with the Manu and Parker peak play spurs. I think Duncan might have been able to win a series here or there KG might have lost for the wolves. But over their careers I think both are a bit less successful if the switched places.
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Re: how good julius ervin 

Post#83 » by dygaction » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:41 pm

NZB2323 wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
Honestly, I’m not sure if that’s true.

1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. Shaq
12. Curry
13. Moses Malone
14.
15.

I think the final 2 spots are between Dr. J, Oscar Robertson, and Jerry West, and I’m not sure who to leave out.


i've got KG (obviously), Robinson, and Malone over Dr J though Robinson and Malone are very debatable. Moses needs to be WAY WAY further down. KD is also making a case over Dr J at this point. CP3 might have a case too if you're looking at his longevity.


Why does Moses have to be way further down?

NBA champion
Finals MVP
3x MVP
13x all-star
4x all-NBA 1st team
4x all-NBA 2nd team
9th all time in points
3rd all time in rebounds
1st all time in offensive rebounds
2nd all time in free throws made
25th all time in blocks

Went 12-1 in the playoffs in 83, sweeping Magic and Kareem, averaging 26 and 16 on 58.7 TS%.

I could see the argument for KG over Moses, but David Robinson, Karl Malone, and CP3? I don’t see it.


If you really go by the long list you presented, more than strange that you don't see Karl Malone's case but KG's.
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Re: How good was Julius Erving? 

Post#84 » by dygaction » Wed Jan 25, 2023 7:45 pm

formula 400 wrote:dr j was pretty much an older vince carter/clyde drexel


more like a Carter/Giannis average at SF position.
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Re: how good julius ervin 

Post#85 » by tdot_steel » Wed Jan 25, 2023 8:03 pm

Hoop Hunter wrote:
NZB2323 wrote:
Joao Saraiva wrote:Good enough to be in the top 15 of all time.

Oviously he was a tremendous player.


Honestly, I’m not sure if that’s true.

1. Jordan
2. Lebron
3. Kareem
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Magic
7. Bird
8. Duncan
9. Hakeem
10. Kobe
11. Shaq
12. Curry
13. Moses Malone
14.
15.

I think the final 2 spots are between Dr. J, Oscar Robertson, and Jerry West, and I’m not sure who to leave out.


Moses is not above Dr.J. 13-15 would be a good spot for Dr.J.

A whole other debate. I don't have Duncan near that high, individual talent he's below everyone on your list til Moses. I know rings, rings. Duncan was fortunate to play on some great teams.


Individual talent, Duncan was better than Shaq. What made Shaq dominant was his size. Duncan was more cerebral and had better fundamental skill.
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Re: How good was Julius Erving? 

Post#86 » by bebopdeluxe » Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:03 am

formula 400 wrote:dr j was pretty much an older vince carter/clyde drexel


Stop.

Please?
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Re: How good was Julius Erving? 

Post#87 » by bebopdeluxe » Thu Jan 26, 2023 5:13 am

SickMother wrote:His 75/76 ABA Championship with the Nets has to be one of the best carry jobs of all time.

Rich Jones, John Williamson, Kim Hughes, Al Skinner, Tim Bassett and Brian Taylor. Those aren't some random names I just made up, they were the six other 75/76 Nets that played 1700 or more minutes. Those six guys combined for -227 TS Add.

Dr. J had to do everything & he did ranking 1st in points, 3rd in rebounds, 5th in assists, 2nd in steals and 6th in blocks for the whole league while posting a 110 TS+ and +223 TS Add to even out his teammates.

Meanwhile Denver was coached by Larry Brown, had David Thompson (RoY, 2nd Team All ABA), Ralph Simpson (1st Team All ABA), Dan Issel (2nd Team All ABA) and Bobby Jones (2nd Team All ABA).


I watched a couple of games in that series. The Nuggets were no joke. Thompson, Issel and Jones - perhaps the preeminent defensive forward in basketball at that time - are all in the HOF, and they were coached by a HOFer in Larry Brown They were the 1 seed, and Doc CARRIED that Nets team to the title.

I was so stoked when he came to the Sixers.

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