NBA MVP Discussion Thread 2022-23 (part 5 - The Final-er MVP Countdown!)

[eyeatoma]

Who is moving goalposts against Embiid again? It feels like a BS narrative that keeps being repeated

The media, and anyone who is anti Embiid.

[eyeatoma]

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Agree with this. Watchout though, it's another tweet. I know the realgm "elitists" won't think highly of it.

[losmi]

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Agree with this. Watchout though, it's another tweet. I know the realgm "elitists" won't think highly of it.

No one is basing the MVP award solely on one-on-one matchups, but that was Embiid's only argument and now he doesn't even have it.

[Richard Miller]

Who is moving goalposts against Embiid again? It feels like a BS narrative that keeps being repeated

The media, and anyone who is anti Embiid.

Lol which media? The MVP race is this close thanks to Embiid getting heavily pushed by ESPN and other media

[eyeatoma]

Who is moving goalposts against Embiid again? It feels like a BS narrative that keeps being repeated

The media, and anyone who is anti Embiid.

Lol which media? The MVP race is this close thanks to Embiid getting heavily pushed by ESPN and other media

Just to name a few, Zach Lowe, Bill Simmons, Kevin O'Connor, Jeff van Gundy, Michael Pina, Perkins who just apparently flipped to Giannis over one game lol. The media have been moving the goal posts for years. Even Giannis mentions it. In that Embiid interview that everyone lambasted, the reporters mentions that Giannis says that the criteria for MVP keeps changing (that is moving the goal posts).

And no, it was not the Media that got Embiid back in the conversation for the MVP. THat was him, and his dominant post all star run. The media noticing that, doens't mean the media is heavily pushing him. If they didn't celebrate him after that, it would be even worse. Especially after all the Jokic gargling that goes on with them.

[eyeatoma]

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Agree with this. Watchout though, it's another tweet. I know the realgm "elitists" won't think highly of it.

No one is basing the MVP award solely on one-on-one matchups, but that was Embiid's only argument and now he doesn't even have it.

That comment got you on my ignore list, congrats.

[HumbleRen]

Best player in the world on the best team in the league averaging 31/12/5. Gets serious MVP discussion = People moving the goal post for Embiid.



oh brother, just give the pity MVP to Embiid so we can stop hearing Sixer fans have a victim complex.

[Richard Miller]

And no, it was not the Media that got Embiid back in the conversation for the MVP. THat was him, and his dominant post all star run. The media noticing that, doens't mean the media is heavily pushing him. If they didn't celebrate him after that, it would be even worse. Especially after all the Jokic gargling that goes on with them.

Lol so it's not pushing it's "celebrating", but when it's about Jokic then it's suddenly not "celebrating" it's "gargling"

[eyeatoma]

And no, it was not the Media that got Embiid back in the conversation for the MVP. THat was him, and his dominant post all star run. The media noticing that, doens't mean the media is heavily pushing him. If they didn't celebrate him after that, it would be even worse. Especially after all the Jokic gargling that goes on with them.

Lol so it's not pushing it's "celebrating", but when it's about Jokic then it's suddenly not "celebrating" it's "gargling"

When you get celebrated for 2 years, and got the last 2 MVPs, yup, it is.

[The Rebel]

And no, it was not the Media that got Embiid back in the conversation for the MVP. THat was him, and his dominant post all star run. The media noticing that, doens't mean the media is heavily pushing him. If they didn't celebrate him after that, it would be even worse. Especially after all the Jokic gargling that goes on with them.

Lol so it's not pushing it's "celebrating", but when it's about Jokic then it's suddenly not "celebrating" it's "gargling"

Don't forget that when it's Jokic it's moving the goal posts to hide their racism against Embiid.

[The Rebel]

Best player in the world on the best team in the league averaging 31/12/5. Gets serious MVP discussion = People moving the goal post for Embiid.



oh brother, just give the pity MVP to Embiid so we can stop hearing Sixer fans have a victim complex.

The last thing they should do is give it to Embiid, let his fans and Embiid himself continue to cry about it, but give it to Giannis or Jokic at least both of them have real arguments to deserve it.

[Kurtz]

Best player in the world on the best team in the league averaging 31/12/5. Gets serious MVP discussion = People moving the goal post for Embiid.



oh brother, just give the pity MVP to Embiid so we can stop hearing Sixer fans have a victim complex.

The last thing they should do is give it to Embiid, let his fans and Embiid himself continue to cry about it, but give it to Giannis or Jokic at least both of them have real arguments to deserve it.

Can we stop with this none sense please - all 3 guys have great arguments for MVP and each guy would be the runaway MVP in most other years.

The only reason the debate is this heated with a week to go in the season when usually the MVP is settled weeks if not months earlier is precisely because this is the closest 3-way race we've probably ever had.

[The Rebel]

Best player in the world on the best team in the league averaging 31/12/5. Gets serious MVP discussion = People moving the goal post for Embiid.



oh brother, just give the pity MVP to Embiid so we can stop hearing Sixer fans have a victim complex.

The last thing they should do is give it to Embiid, let his fans and Embiid himself continue to cry about it, but give it to Giannis or Jokic at least both of them have real arguments to deserve it.

Can we stop with this none sense please - all 3 guys have great arguments for MVP and each guy would be the runaway MVP in most other years.

The only reason the debate is this heated with a week to go in the season when usually the MVP is settled weeks if not months earlier is precisely because this is the closest 3-way race we've probably ever had.

Please lay out Embiid's argument over Giannis and Jokic and have it based on facts and not your feelings or playing the victim.

[Kurtz]

The last thing they should do is give it to Embiid, let his fans and Embiid himself continue to cry about it, but give it to Giannis or Jokic at least both of them have real arguments to deserve it.

Can we stop with this none sense please - all 3 guys have great arguments for MVP and each guy would be the runaway MVP in most other years.

The only reason the debate is this heated with a week to go in the season when usually the MVP is settled weeks if not months earlier is precisely because this is the closest 3-way race we've probably ever had.

Please lay out Embiid's argument over Giannis and Jokic and have it based on facts and not your feelings or playing the victim.

The case has been presented a million times in 5 different threads and it's been echoed in the voter straw poll and reflected in the betting odds that at this moment show Embiid as a moderate favourite.

If you've refused to listen to this preponderance of data to date, there is absolutely nothing I could say that would bring you to light at this point.

[HumbleRen]

Best player in the world on the best team in the league averaging 31/12/5. Gets serious MVP discussion = People moving the goal post for Embiid.



oh brother, just give the pity MVP to Embiid so we can stop hearing Sixer fans have a victim complex.

The last thing they should do is give it to Embiid, let his fans and Embiid himself continue to cry about it, but give it to Giannis or Jokic at least both of them have real arguments to deserve it.

I mean I personally think all 3 are deserving. Embiid has just as good of a case as any of them.

It's just personally annoying when I see Sixers fans/Embiid/Morey have this sort of inferiority complex when they've been the runner up to MVP 2 years in a row and is currently the favorite to win MVP. Like enough with the sob story lol.

[The Rebel]

Can we stop with this none sense please - all 3 guys have great arguments for MVP and each guy would be the runaway MVP in most other years.

The only reason the debate is this heated with a week to go in the season when usually the MVP is settled weeks if not months earlier is precisely because this is the closest 3-way race we've probably ever had.

Please lay out Embiid's argument over Giannis and Jokic and have it based on facts and not your feelings or playing the victim.

The case has been presented a million times in 5 different threads and it's been echoed in the voter straw poll and reflected in the betting odds that at this moment show Embiid as a moderate favourite.

If you've refused to listen to this preponderance of data to date, there is absolutely nothing I could say that would bring you to light at this point.

So you still don't have an argument? At least be honest about it.

The only arguments I have heard is that Embiid deserves it because certain people want him to win it and that voters are racist if they don't give it to him.

Yet you Embiid fans want everybody to ignore games played, stats when it comes to Giannis, advanced stats when it comes to Jokic, and just give it to the ducking crybaby because he isn't good enough to earn it.

[eathb_au]

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I mean I feel it's pretty obvious (the guy with the most greens). This isn't even factoring advanced stats which Jokic would blow out the water.

[stoo]

honestly, the only argument for embiid to win it over giannis and jokic is that he scores more points then them (barely over giannis and taking way more shots than jokic)

but we already have a separate top scorer award, and top scorers are often not mvps historically

[Kurtz]

Please lay out Embiid's argument over Giannis and Jokic and have it based on facts and not your feelings or playing the victim.

The case has been presented a million times in 5 different threads and it's been echoed in the voter straw poll and reflected in the betting odds that at this moment show Embiid as a moderate favourite.

If you've refused to listen to this preponderance of data to date, there is absolutely nothing I could say that would bring you to light at this point.

So you still don't have an argument? At least be honest about it.

The only arguments I have heard is that Embiid deserves it because certain people want him to win it and that voters are racist if they don't give it to him.

Yet you Embiid fans want everybody to ignore games played, stats when it comes to Giannis, advanced stats when it comes to Jokic, and just give it to the ducking crybaby because he isn't good enough to earn it.

I'm not an Embiid fan. I do appreciate his excellence however having watched him a lot especially with Raptors facing him in the playoffs a few times.

I'll do a quick rough synopsis for you in case you're late to these threads and have missed the arguments.

All 3 guys have gaudy counting stats. The flashiest stat is ppg and Embiid leads the league, a whole 8 points above Jokic. Jokic is however averaging a triple double, which would have already assured him his 3rd MVP had Russ not taken the shine off of it a few years earlier. Joker is also the most efficient of the 3 while Giannis is the least efficient.

Both Embiid and Freak are excellent defenders, while Joker is either poor or above average depending on the argument. Freak leads the best team in the NBA. Joker has the best record in the West, but has only 1 more win than Philly.

Head to head Embiid and Freak are even, Embiid killed Joker at home but didn't play him on the road where he'd be at a disadvantage. Not sure about Jokic vs Giannis head to head, that actually hasn't been brought up much and I haven't done the tally myself.

Joker had the edge in durability until the recent stretch of missed games that brought all 3 guys roughly on par in that respect. However, Giannis has to play 3 out of the next 4 games just to get to the 65 game threshold, which may not happen.

Joker also leads in most advanced stats, but you'd have to be a moron to respect the advanced stats that state that Jokic is by far the best defender in the league and one of the best defenders in league history.

There is also the less tangible precedent argument where Giannis might get an edge from being a champ, Embiid might get an edge from being the back to back runner-up and Joker might take a hit from being a back to back winner but a playoff loser. We know these factors have an impact on at least some voters but it's exceedingly hard to pin down the extent of the impact.

I think that's the summation and there was a deep dive on each of these points over the course of these 5 threads.

[MartyConlonOnTheRun]

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I mean I feel it's pretty obvious (the guy with the most greens). This isn't even factoring advanced stats which Jokic would blow out the water.

Wonder how much the narrative would have changed if Giannis did 2 things differently:
1. Not get injured in first 9 minutes of 2 games: If you take out those 2 games where he had 15 minutes combined, he would have more RPG than Jokic, and had 32.1 PPG which puts him a lot closer to Embiid.
2. Shot FTs at his historical average - Raises PPG by like .8 PPG

The race is so close that if those 2 small things turned out differently, IMHO it would be really hard to have Embiid above him. Volume and efficiency would be about the same and I feel Giannis's D is slightly better and Bucks with a 5+ win lead.

It's just a really close race and we are splitting hairs. Jokic is the better BBIQ player, Embiid is the more skilled freak, while Giannis has the better motor. They are different but not sure one is better than the other.