Hoopshype ranks the top 77 NBA players of all-time (spoiler: Kevin Garnett is not #9)

[JimmyFromNz]

Mikan at 46 when he's a top 10 all timer.

Crapping on Schayes and Pettit, who blow away the likes of Garnett and Nowitzki. In what universe is Isaiah more accomplished than Cousy? Maravich and Carmelo over Sam Jones and Bill Sharman? Dwight Howard over Artis Gilmore?

Typical recency-bias ChatGPT nonsense. These lists have been circulating on the web for so long that we've lost our ability to reason with them because they become de facto "generally accepted."

"Think about how dumb the average person is, and then realize half of them are even dumber than that."- George Carlin

I will say... after the something, something Chat GPT stuff I admire the boldness, spice and self-indulgence of using the final George Carlin quote, to conclude a post where you say 'Schayes and Pettit' blow Garnett and Nowitzki away.

That is quite the paper based argument, logic that anyone with an ounce of energy, could drive a bus through.

[Onus]

Horrible. Can’t take any list that has Kd over Steph seriously.

[Memories]

It's an ok list. The first thing that jumped out to me was Duncan being too low, the same with Dirk, Giannis, and Jokic.

Naw, you guys and majority of RealGM have overrated Tim Duncan FOR WAY TOO LONG.

People that think he’s anywhere near top 5 of all time are high as hell.

Naw, casuals have underrated him for way too long. People that think he's nowhere near top 5 all time are truly stoned out of their minds

Ah yes, the same non-casuals such as you that voted KG #9 on here?

No one underrates so not sure where you have gotten that idea from.

[The Servant]

Nikola Jokic criminally low to the point of absurdity here.

[ReasonablySober]

My point is, I'm judging with what I have right now. And, right now, as good as Jokic/Giannis have been, there have been better players, and most importantly, better careers than theirs.

To me, with regards to Jokic and Giannis and where they stack up all time, I first have to ask who else has won multiple MVPs, and who from that group has won rings. Or, who was ever considered the best player in the league during their era?

List immediately gets pretty small, right? It's the top 14 in the OP:

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Bill Russell
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Larry Bird
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Tim Duncan
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Kevin Durant
13. Stephen Curry
14. Oscar Robertson

No one after that has a case over Jokic and Giannis. That's not to take away from the Malones, Dr. J, KG and Robinson, but they were simpy never on that level. West is the closest. I wouldn't have him above Giannis or Jokic, but I wouldn't argue strongly.

[ReasonablySober]

Anyway, my controversial take is Kobe should be out of the top 15 *ducks*.

[NZB2323]

So what's the argument for Jokic and Giannis below:

15. Karl Malone
16. Moses Malone
17. Kevin Garnett
18. Jerry West
19. Dirk Nowitzki
20. Julius Erving
21. Elgin Baylor

?

Obviously the argument is longevity, except for Elgin Baylor, who holds the record for most points scored in a finals game with 61.

Dr. J:
4x MVP
2x playoffs MVP
3x champion
16x all-star
9x all first team
8th all time in points scored

And Giannis was great in 2021, but he's come up short in the playoffs other years. Jerry West made it to the NBA Finals 9 times. Dr. J made the finals several times in the ABA and NBA. KG didn't have the teammates they had.

If you're throwing out longevity then should Luka Doncic be part of the list?

I'm not throwing out longevity. But Giannis and Jokic have both longevity and career accomplishments. Jokic has played three more seasons than Luka, Giannis has played twice as many seasons. They've both won rings and multiple MVPs.

And Moses Malone, Karl Malone, KG, Dr. J, and Dirk have all played twice as many seasons as Jokic and Giannis.

Jerry West has made the finals nine times as many times as Jokic or Giannis.

[ReasonablySober]

And Moses Malone, Karl Malone, KG, Dr. J, and Dirk have all played twice as many seasons as Jokic and Giannis.

Jerry West has made the finals nine times as many times as Jokic or Giannis.

A lot of dudes have played twice as many seasons as Jokic and Giannis. A lot of dudes have made the finals more than Giannis and Jokic.

How many were ever the best player in the world? How many won multiple MVPs?

[NZB2323]

My point is, I'm judging with what I have right now. And, right now, as good as Jokic/Giannis have been, there have been better players, and most importantly, better careers than theirs.

To me, with regards to Jokic and Giannis and where they stack up all time, I first have to ask who else has won multiple MVPs, and who from that group has won rings. Or, who was ever considered the best player in the league during their era?

List immediately gets pretty small, right? It's the top 14 in the OP:

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Bill Russell
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Larry Bird
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Tim Duncan
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Kevin Durant
13. Stephen Curry
14. Oscar Robertson

No one after that has a case over Jokic and Giannis. That's not to take away from the Malones, Dr. J, KG and Robinson, but they were simpy never on that level. West is the closest. I wouldn't have him above Giannis or Jokic, but I wouldn't argue strongly.

Dr. J won 4 MVPs, 3 rings, and was considered the best player in the world. In 1976 Kareem didn’t make the playoffs and Dr. J won MVP, the championship, and Playoffs MVP.

Moses Malone won 3 MVPs, a championship, and was considered in the best player in the world. In 1983 he won MVP, went 12-1 in the playoffs, sweeping Magic, Kareem, and Worthy, and he won the championship and Finals MVP.

[ReasonablySober]

My point is, I'm judging with what I have right now. And, right now, as good as Jokic/Giannis have been, there have been better players, and most importantly, better careers than theirs.

To me, with regards to Jokic and Giannis and where they stack up all time, I first have to ask who else has won multiple MVPs, and who from that group has won rings. Or, who was ever considered the best player in the league during their era?

List immediately gets pretty small, right? It's the top 14 in the OP:

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson
5. Bill Russell
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Larry Bird
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Tim Duncan
11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Kevin Durant
13. Stephen Curry
14. Oscar Robertson

No one after that has a case over Jokic and Giannis. That's not to take away from the Malones, Dr. J, KG and Robinson, but they were simpy never on that level. West is the closest. I wouldn't have him above Giannis or Jokic, but I wouldn't argue strongly.

Dr. J won 4 MVPs, 3 rings, and was considered the best player in the world. In 1976 Kareem didn’t make the playoffs and Dr. J won MVP, the championship, and Playoffs MVP.

Moses Malone won 3 MVPs, a championship, and was considered in the best player in the world. In 1983 he won MVP, went 12-1 in the playoffs, sweeping Magic, Kareem, and Worthy, and he won the championship and Finals MVP.

In 1976 Dr. J was in the ABA. It was a league of nine teams.

Moses I won't argue with you about.

[-Sammy-]

I like lists that are good lists.

I like lists that are not this list.

[xdrta+]

I would take Nate Thurmond, who is not even on this list, over any center playing today.

[John Murdoch]

I personally dont think the gap between Giannis and AD is 25 spots but hey thats just me

[dautjazz]

Jokic at 41 was the biggest surprise. If you were starting a franchise today how many people would honestly take the following players above Jokic:

28. Chris Paul
29. John Havlicek
30. Allen Iverson
31. Bob Pettit
32. John Stockton
34. Steve Nash
35. Patrick Ewing
36. Rick Barry
37. Bob Cousy
38. Jason Kidd
39. James Harden
40. Elvin Hayes

None of them. Jokic is really knocking on the door for top 20 all time already.

Kobe also should be below Shaq and Duncan. He's gotten overrated post death.

[dautjazz]

I would take Nate Thurmond, who is not even on this list, over any center playing today.

You'd really take Thurmond over Jokic? Thurmond never made an All-NBA team, and only placed in the top 7 MVP shares once in his career. Jokic basically shot like 20% better from field this season Thurmond's career average. I simply can't see a case for Thurmond at all.

[zero rings]

I think AI is about right. One of the best scorers to ever play, maybe the best pound for pound player the league has seen in terms of talent. He just had a shorter prime and was on teams that had poor rosters during it. He was that good though.

I’ll never understand this “pound for pound” argument we make for Iverson. Did his shots count for more points because he was smaller than everyone else? Basketball is a game where being big and tall is an advantage, there are no weight classes

It’s like saying I’m the best pound for pound sumo wrestler.

It means his skill level was insane. His shots didn't count for more, but he won 4 scoring titles at his size which speaks to that skill level. Being big and tall is an advantage, which he didn't have, yet still was able to do what he did on his talent. Nobody his size was remotely close to him as a scorer in NBA history.

He can be impressive for his size and still not be a top 30 player all time.

And was his skill level that insane? He was an insane athlete and could get up a ton of shots. But he wasn't actually a good shooter, nor was he a good finisher. Playmaking was solid but nothing special.

Even if we do entertain this "pound for pound" thing what's his argument over Curry, Nash, CP3?

[yellowknifer]

It's an ok list. The first thing that jumped out to me was Duncan being too low, the same with Dirk, Giannis, and Jokic.

Iverson too high was the thing that stood out to me. Enjoyed watching him and legit I think they had a chance to make it 2-0 in the Finals on his back only to get robbed by officials. But still, too high.

[art_tatum]

Personally for me bill Russell is always too high. Wilt I'm ok with being in the top 10.
Tim Duncan at 10 is wild. He is top 6
Curry little too low. Oscar a little too high.

[SpreeS]

1. Michael Jordan
2. LeBron James
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Magic Johnson way to high
5. Bill Russell
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Larry Bird way to high
8. Kobe Bryant way to high
9. Shaquille O'Neal
10. Tim Duncan way to low

11. Hakeem Olajuwon
12. Kevin Durant way to high
13. Stephen Curry
14. Oscar Robertson
15. Karl Malone
16. Moses Malone
17. Kevin Garnett
18. Jerry West
19. Dirk Nowitzki
20. Julius Erving

21. Elgin Baylor way to high
22. Giannis Antetokounmpo
23. Dwyane Wade
24. David Robinson
25. Charles Barkley
26. Isiah Thomas way to high
27. Scottie Pippen
28. Chris Paul
29. John Havlicek
30. Allen Iverson way to high

31. Bob Pettit
32. John Stockton
33. Kawhi Leonard
34. Steve Nash
35. Patrick Ewing
36. Rick Barry
37. Bob Cousy way to high
38. Jason Kidd
39. James Harden way to low
40. Elvin Hayes

41. Nikola Jokic way to low
42. Gary Payton
43. Dominique Wilkins way to high
44. George Gervin
45. Clyde Drexler
46. George Mikan way to low
47. Anthony Davis
48. Russell Westbrook
49. James Worthy way to high
50. Carmelo Anthony way to high

51. Paul Pierce
52. Bob McAdoo
53. Damian Lillard
54. Reggie Miller
55. Wes Unseld
56. Kevin McHale
57. Ray Allen
58. Pau Gasol
59. Walt Frazier way to low
60. Robert Parish

61. Willis Reed
62. Dwight Howard
63. Dolph Schayes
64. Chris Bosh way to high
65. Dennis Rodman
66. Nate Archibald way to high
67. Pete Maravich way to high
68. Dave Cowens
69. Tony Parker
70. Vince Carter

71. Alex English
72. Paul Arizin
73. Earl Monroe way to high
74. Bernard King
75. Tracy McGrady
76. Kyrie Irving way to high
77. Hal Greer

[KyRo23]

Also, wtf is Carmelo Anthony doing on this list at all, let alone ahead of guys like Reggie Miller, Alex English, Tracy McGrady and Pistol Pete...

Carmelo should easily be ahead of Reggie. I feel like Reggie is a TAD overrated