How good Domantas Sabonis really is?

[jkvonny]

I like this video that dropped yesterday:

Watch on YouTube

I think this is an example of someone having unusual strengths and weaknesses and people being very rigid on what is necessary to win at high level.
It was the same with Jokic, who though is so good that totally broke some analysts thinking process.
But I feel that those same people have not been challenging their own approach but just look at Nikola as an exception.
I think Domas can be the same at a much lower level, but he will need some good breaks to show it.
What I like the most that it's shown here is that this kind of player can enable up to four other players to be always in attack mode as he's the one making most of the decisions. And all these guys can play two man games with him or cut off ball with good chance of success.

is he Jokic? No, not even close, but he's a solid all NBA player.

I think it's kind of simple

He's in Sacramento. The East Coast bias is real. I'm on the East Coast and most people that work early only see guys like Kawhi, SGA and Sabonis/Fox, etc. play a few times a year. Curry. LeBron and Jokic (and their teams) get that 10:30pm time-slots 99% of the time. Don't get me wrong, we see highlights but he's not a flashy athlete so it gets lost a little in the shuffle... if he even makes the highlight. If he were in NY, Boston, Chicago or Miami, he would be a big-time star.

Now, mind you, A LOT of East Coasters, including basketball people, took years to realize how good Jokic is. Sabots is a poor mans Jokic, so it's not really surprising that he is also going under-the-radar.

To those thaat watch regularly, they know how impactful he is. Not many outside of Sacramento watch the Kings regularly.

Good post.

This is true.

Also, a lot of the smaller/mid markets are out west (San Antonio, Denver, Sacramento, New Orleans, Utah, Portland, Minnesota, OKC, Memphis, Phoenix, etc) , the home games there are CST , MST, or PST. A lot of these teams and their players are not well known for the casuals on the east coast, nor do they care about them much.
1 to 3 hours later for the folks on the east coast. Unless those teams have major star player, get into the NBA Finals, etc the east coast folks that work early in the mornings, will hardly stay up to watch those games. Unless they watch the star laden big market teams like LA Lakers/Clippers, GSW, Dallas Mavs, Houston Rockets.

A lot of the big markets are out on the east coast (the Whole Atlantic Division: NY Knicks, Brooklyn, Boston, Philly, Toronto) , Chicago, Atlanta, Washington, etc And they tend to have well know players, stars. The folks (even the casuals) on the east coast knows them more, the games are on their prime time schedule. EST.
Also, their mid/smaller markets that have had success over the years (Milwaukee, Cleveland, Indiana, Miami, Orlando, etc and the past (Detroit, Charlotte) and are more familiar with their star players past and present.
The folks on the east coast gets lots of exposure from the teams in the East. Fits their interest, ties, rivalry, time schedule, etc.

So you are right. It is/was a lot of east coast biased. But things have even out, gotten better compared to many many years ago. More exposure now with internet streaming, NBA TV, social media, etc.

[FarBeyondDriven]

He's one of the 15 best players in the NBA. A top 5 center in what has turned (is turning) into a center dominated league. It's a shame he lacks athleticism and has lead in his boots which prevent him from being a good defender. If he had just a little more lateral quickness and vertical he'd be in the MVP conversation

[Ryoga Hibiki]

He's one of the 15 best players in the NBA. A top 5 center in what has turned (is turning) into a center dominated league. It's a shame he lacks athleticism and has lead in his boots which prevent him from being a good defender. If he had just a little more lateral quickness and vertical he'd be in the MVP conversation

He has actually decent mobility, only thing he has short arms and he's not a good rim protector

[KingFox]

I like this video that dropped yesterday:

Watch on YouTube

I think this is an example of someone having unusual strengths and weaknesses and people being very rigid on what is necessary to win at high level.
It was the same with Jokic, who though is so good that totally broke some analysts thinking process.
But I feel that those same people have not been challenging their own approach but just look at Nikola as an exception.
I think Domas can be the same at a much lower level, but he will need some good breaks to show it.
What I like the most that it's shown here is that this kind of player can enable up to four other players to be always in attack mode as he's the one making most of the decisions. And all these guys can play two man games with him or cut off ball with good chance of success.

is he Jokic? No, not even close, but he's a solid all NBA player.

This sums up a point I've been trying to make on here for a while. Jokic is an all-time talent, sure. But there are other all-time talents playing right now as well--ones that fit much more into the dogmatic conventions of "what you need to win a ring." There absolutely should be a bigger undercurrent of the basketball nerd hivemind that's questioning their preconceived notions about what you supposedly need to win a ring.

Yes, Jokic is an all-time offensive player, but citing that as the reason he's some kind of "exception to the rule" would imply that Denver rolled through the playoffs with a series of shootouts where they just outscored everyone, and that's not reality. It's also true that Denver had an excellent defense in their finals run last season, despite not just Jokic not being a conventional rim protector, but Murray and Porter generally being defensive targets. Part of that is of course their offensive excellence. Part of it is that our preconceived notions of what can make for a championship-level defense is at best outdated, and we all simply don't know as much as we think we do.

I like his ability to grab a rebound and run on fast break right away, I think its a real advantage some bigger players now can have. Domantas' handle seem lose, but it works, he is very comfotable with it. I do however think he is not the passer or playmaker as his stats suggest, he gets a lot of assists from hand off screen action, and his teammates are just good shooters in those situations. He is not Jokić, where the guy finds and creates stuff from scratch entirely. You can teach other guys what Domantas does, I feel. But you can't teach them what Jokić does, with him it is natural basketball genius.

To me, this dismissal misses a primary point of the video. It's not as much about the passing skill (though it often is that as well) as it is about the orchestration. He's deciding in the moment every time on those DHOs where the possession is going to go, adjusting screen angles, pulling the DHO back for a keeper drive to the hoop, reading where the help is coming at super advanced levels that really only one other C can do.

Perhaps my favorite part of this video is the part pointing out how Sabonis allows teammates to be in attack mode. There's a lot made of how hard it is to build around him, and this is partially true in some ways to be sure. It's also true that you're able to build a team with worse decision-makers (relatively speaking) because he takes that burden off of them. Fox is frankly not an elite floor general, but he is an elite attacker. Sabonis' presence allows him to play to his strengths. It's similar for Monk. He constantly starts scorers off with advantages due to his elite screening and decision-making so that the only decision-making they really need to do is pretty basic drive and kick stuff.

This is such an awesome post. Thank you! The "Sabonis gets all of his assists from DHO's" takes were driving me insane. If it were that simple, you'd see similar numbers all around the league. No need to downplay what he does smh folks saw a few possessions against the warriors last summer and that's all they know.

[KingFox]

He needs to stop getting pwned by Looney or else is reputation is going to be in the doo doo

Meh. He also played with one good hand in that series, i don't see Looney repeating that performance

[Ryoga Hibiki]

https://youtu.be/vmEzwezyKrE?si=0wCaVHoLwbbOOQ-1

in the meantime they pick him a worst contract draft, that's ridiculous

[Calvin Klein]

There was a time when the suns almost traded Ayton for Sabonis.

[UcanUwill]

https://youtu.be/vmEzwezyKrE?si=0wCaVHoLwbbOOQ-1

in the meantime they pick him a worst contract draft, that's ridiculous

They were reaching there by the end, But Domas was definitely the biggest reach, hopefully he proves that guy wrong. I get his argument, short arms for a C and all that, does not really shoot 3s either, but to me, bad/ worst contracts would be something no NBA team would actually want to have under payroll. Ben Simmons and Jordan Poole are that, would you rather have nothing, or Ben Simmons under his current contract? Every single NBA team would rather have nothing. With Sabonis, I feel almost every single team would still be glad to have him under that contract, if he was just offered for free...
Honestly, Jaylen Brown is probably worse contract, but he is put on already stacked contender, so it does not feel that way, that team does not care right now, they are all in on the championship. Switch Domas and Brown around, and that contract would not feel as good.

[BoogieTime]

He's one of the 15 best players in the NBA. A top 5 center in what has turned (is turning) into a center dominated league. It's a shame he lacks athleticism and has lead in his boots which prevent him from being a good defender. If he had just a little more lateral quickness and vertical he'd be in the MVP conversation

He has actually decent mobility, only thing he has short arms and he's not a good rim protector

Yeah, don’t know where that post was coming from

He’s agile/athletic (with motor) for a C but not the greatest length or shot blocking instincts

[Iwasawitness]

He's exceptionally strong physically and has very solid fundamentals.

He's on the longest double-double streak on a team which had Chris Webber, Vlade and Boogie on the roster.

Read on Twitter

What was Kevin Love’s consecutive double double record? I feel like Sabonis has to be a good distance away from breaking it.

[pillwenney]

https://youtu.be/vmEzwezyKrE?si=0wCaVHoLwbbOOQ-1

in the meantime they pick him a worst contract draft, that's ridiculous

They were reaching there by the end, But Domas was definitely the biggest reach, hopefully he proves that guy wrong. I get his argument, short arms for a C and all that, does not really shoot 3s either, but to me, bad/ worst contracts would be something no NBA team would actually want to have under payroll. Ben Simmons and Jordan Poole are that, would you rather have nothing, or Ben Simmons under his current contract? Every single NBA team would rather have nothing. With Sabonis, I feel almost every single team would still be glad to have him under that contract, if he was just offered for free...
Honestly, Jaylen Brown is probably worse contract, but he is put on already stacked contender, so it does not feel that way, that team does not care right now, they are all in on the championship. Switch Domas and Brown around, and that contract would not feel as good.

I think an interesting analogy is comparing him and Jokic to like, Dame and Curry, though Dame gets more credit than Sabonis generally does.

By this I mean, if Curry didn't exist, Dame's career would fully look alien. He would appear to be this completely unprecedented offensive player and would be completely mind-blowing to people. He still is to a degree, and he's certainly highly heralded, but not to the degree he otherwise would be.

Can you imagine how people would view what Sabonis is doing right now if Jokic didn't exist? I think it would completely alter the perception of him, the obsession with his flaws would subside a LOT because what he does do well would be fully baffling.

[sikma42]

If he is a top 15 player and playing with Fox then his team should be much better. You have to stay consistent.


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[Optms]

He’s very good - the term “poor man’s Jokic” is unfair; Jokic is a billionaire’s player, Sabonis is the millionaire’s version. He doesn’t have Jokic’s shooting or the same level of insane passing from every angle; he’s not as elite. But he’s got the similar role and impact just at a lesser degree

How is it unfair if that's what he basically is? A poor man's Joker. Its not we're saying he's a homeless man's Joker. That would be unfair. Lets call what it is.

[Mrakar]

He plays harder than 99.9% of the NBA. That is why he is "good". He is not that talented and he doesnt have great physical attributes. but he plays harder then his opponent every night.
Sadly that doesn't translate into playoffs, since almost everyone is playing hard then. I bet if they face Lakers in PO or play-in, Davis will own him because he has the tools to do so.

[SNPA]

He plays harder than 99.9% of the NBA. That is why he is "good". He is not that talented and he doesnt have great physical attributes. but he plays harder then his opponent every night.
Sadly that doesn't translate into playoffs, since almost everyone is playing hard then. I bet if they face Lakers in PO or play-in, Davis will own him because he has the tools to do so.

Happy to take that bet. Sabonis crushes guys like AD. He has trouble with guys built like he is…aka Looney. His game is play with force and tall long guys he goes right through, it’s guys that match his strength and speed that are a problem for him.

[pillwenney]

If he is a top 15 player and playing with Fox then his team should be much better. You have to stay consistent.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

From a negative perspective, Sabonis is the last player on the team I'd blame for any inconsistency. Part of why he's such a great floor raiser is that he's incredibly consistent. The rest of the team (including Fox) is much more to blame for that. Our shooters have mostly not shot as well this year, and Fox has been extremely up and down. Sabonis is the constant.

[Pelon chingon]

Watch on YouTube

Apologies for the horrible hip-hop music at the end of the video.

[sikma42]

If he is a top 15 player and playing with Fox then his team should be much better. You have to stay consistent.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

From a negative perspective, Sabonis is the last player on the team I'd blame for any inconsistency. Part of why he's such a great floor raiser is that he's incredibly consistent. The rest of the team (including Fox) is much more to blame for that. Our shooters have mostly not shot as well this year, and Fox has been extremely up and down. Sabonis is the constant.

When you’re a great player, you take account for you teammates level of play (relative to their talent). He gets a lot of leeway compared to people we consider top 15.


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[pillwenney]

If he is a top 15 player and playing with Fox then his team should be much better. You have to stay consistent.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

From a negative perspective, Sabonis is the last player on the team I'd blame for any inconsistency. Part of why he's such a great floor raiser is that he's incredibly consistent. The rest of the team (including Fox) is much more to blame for that. Our shooters have mostly not shot as well this year, and Fox has been extremely up and down. Sabonis is the constant.

When you’re a great player, you take account for you teammates level of play (relative to their talent). He gets a lot of leeway compared to people we consider top 15.


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Noted. So then Luka, Booker, Durant, Brunson, and Butler are also not top 15 players then, correct?

[GeorgeSears]

He's very good, but not great.

Just like Sengun, he has a limited mid-range game and non-existent long-range game. It allows defenders to sag off of him when he's on the perimeter.