OT: Djoker Becomes Undisputed GOAT

[rzzzzz]

boris becker is my goat

Boom Boom was certainly fun to watch. He and Edberg were spectacular competitors.

(Does anybody remember how Edberg’s serve killed a linesman? The ball bounced up so fast it took the poor man by surprise as it struck him in his crotch. He fell off the stool he was sitting on, hit his head on the court and was dead. It was because of this incident that stools were eliminated and all linesmen were required to stand.)

[bledredwine]

undisputed my ass.

He is behind Nadal and federer.

he has only taken advantage of the other two being older and with poor health that made them miss a lot gs.

whats his record like against them before they got older?

Between 2008 and 2012, when all of them where kinda prime ( late prime for fed )

NADAL: 4 RG 2 WB 1 US 1 AUS total = 8
DJOKOVIC: 1 Wb 1 US 3 Aus total = 5
FEDERER: 1 RG* 2 Wb 1 Aus total= 4


*nadal was injured



Head to head in grand slam finals.

Nadal 11 vs djokovic 7
Nadal 10 vs Federer 4
Djokovic 11 vs federer 6



sorry but "undisputed" goat my ass.

I don't know tennis but trust you.

Based on my experience on this planet, everyone overhypes the present athletes at all times.

They were hyping Federer as undisputed GOAT, I didn't buy it.
They do the same for Mayweather, comparing him to Ali (not even considering Sugar Ray Robinson, which is hilarious, or how many fights Mayweather ducked and how close some of them were), they call Messi by far the GOAT, compare Kobe to Jordan, same with Lebron, and so on.

If I crown someone undisputed GOAT, they better be FAR ahead of their competition and dominating their sports consistently, not getting outmatched by other players or even having other players on a somewhat similar level, as we've seen with Messi/Ronaldo, Kobe/Lebron/Jokic, Mayweather/Pacquiao, and so on.

We have yet to see the undisputed GOAT of tennis, but when we do, we will know it. It'll probably happen within the next few decades. Fans don't realize that GOAT's are not generational..... they're millennial athletes.

For now, you can minimum make the case of Sampras, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic (in my limited tennis knowledge).

For soccer, calling Messi clearly better than Pele or Maradona is pure ignorance, especially when you consider
how versatile Maradona was in comparison and actually watch videos of all three players. They're all on a similar level, period, and Maradona looks the most dominant, so there's no clear GOAT of soccer, despite what current fans want.

The truth is that you can't have like 6 or 7 GOAT's in one era no matter how superior you believe your era to be... doesn't make sense that we could evolve so much in even one decade.

The only true undisputed (pop) GOAT's we've seen in the last decade are Michael Phelps, Simone Biles,
and probably Tom Brady (I don't give a crap or know about football, correct me if I'm wrong).
I may be forgetting one or some olympic sports as well.

This, of course, excludes sports that have recently ascended like MMA where we're seeing new GOATs all the time.

That's 3 total though. The math adds up.

[Johnny Firpo]

I could never understand why people disliked Novak, at least when compared to Federer and Nadal.

Well let's dive into it then, shall we?

1. He is friends with war criminals.
2. He thinks that through "good thoughts", you can make dirty water drinkable.
3. He is, and has always been a literal cheater, going way beyond the serving time allowed (yes, the same was true for Nadal, and yes, the referees were also to blame)
4. He got disqualified once for hitting a ballwoman in the throat with a ball.
5. He is an anti-science, village idiot.
6. His family, including his grandparent, mother and father, had all made totally disrespectful interviews about Federer and Nadal, long before he become the winningest, going back like 20 years.
7. He, just like his fans, always whines about not being liked, and has a tendency to act out on the court against the crowd, because they dare to not like him.
8. As a result, he took on this totally fake, "nice guy" persona that tries way, way too hard outside of those moments, where his true personality shines through.

I could honestly go on and on, but it is BAFFLING how his fans don't understand why people generally don't like him, and why he will most definitely be forgotten way quicker than the other 2, despite having better results. GOATness is two-fold, someone wrote it, you have to have the results, but you gotta have "IT", and he just never had, at least to the extend of the other two. It's not just about the results. People literally decided that MJ is the GOAT over Russell who has better results, largely due to his playing style and charisma (and yeah, playing in a different era).

1. Nadal is friends with the Saudis and Federer residence was in UAE(who have blood on their hands) so they are not innocent if we going by your thought process.
2. Who cares he is not pushing his beliefs on anyone
3. Cheating that’s a joke. Bouncing the ball too much before serve. lol
4. That was an accident which he was obviously remorseful
5. He speaks like 9 languages also not anti science but has wierd ass views on natural health
6. His family said things not him. Also had believe in their son. But he wasn’t disrespectful towards his opponents. Actually fought for players pay. Well liked on tour
7. He used that motivation to become the greatest
8. lol ok

He will always be remembered for winning the most slams, the most 1000s, the most at 1, the most year ends, I could go on etc.

P.S. to compare MJ vs Russel is so intellectual dishonest I mean come one. One is a TEAM sport which teammates matter and the other is an individual sport. There is so much hate it is hilarious

I like you, we root for the same team, and Joker. And you are right, there is a lot of hate. I just don't understand why Djoker fans refuse to admit that the reasons for said hate might be legit. Sure there are fans who started to hate him when he overtook Federer and Nadal, but for a lot of people this goes back to the time when he barely had any major victories yet. You at least have to admit that he is a controversial guy, and I haven't even gotten into the whole Covid-19 fiasco. Also, while it's true that he did not say bad things about Federer and Nadal, since he never corrected his family, never talked about how they disrespected them so many times in Serbian interviews and articles, it kind of feels like that he approved it throughout the years.

[BelgradeNugget]

whats his record like against them before they got older?

Between 2008 and 2012, when all of them where kinda prime ( late prime for fed )

NADAL: 4 RG 2 WB 1 US 1 AUS total = 8
DJOKOVIC: 1 Wb 1 US 3 Aus total = 5
FEDERER: 1 RG* 2 Wb 1 Aus total= 4


*nadal was injured



Head to head in grand slam finals.

Nadal 11 vs djokovic 7
Nadal 10 vs Federer 4
Djokovic 11 vs federer 6



sorry but "undisputed" goat my ass.

I don't know tennis but trust you.

Based on my experience on this planet, everyone overhypes the present athletes at all times.

They were hyping Federer as undisputed GOAT, I didn't buy it.
They do the same for Mayweather, comparing him to Ali (not even considering Sugar Ray Robinson, which is hilarious, or how many fights Mayweather ducked and how close some of them were), they call Messi by far the GOAT, compare Kobe to Jordan, same with Lebron, and so on.

If I crown someone undisputed GOAT, they better be FAR ahead of their competition and dominating their sports consistently, not getting outmatched by other players or even having other players on a somewhat similar level, as we've seen with Messi/Ronaldo, Kobe/Lebron/Jokic, Mayweather/Pacquiao, and so on.

We have yet to see the undisputed GOAT of tennis, but when we do, we will know it. It'll probably happen within the next few decades. Fans don't realize that GOAT's are not generational..... they're millennial athletes.

For now, you can minimum make the case of Sampras, Federer, Nadal and Djokovic (in my limited tennis knowledge).

For soccer, calling Messi clearly better than Pele or Maradona is pure ignorance, especially when you consider
how versatile Maradona was in comparison and actually watch videos of all three players. They're all on a similar level, period, and Maradona looks the most dominant, so there's no clear GOAT of soccer, despite what current fans want.

The truth is that you can't have like 6 or 7 GOAT's in one era no matter how superior you believe your era to be... doesn't make sense that we could evolve so much in even one decade.

The only true undisputed (pop) GOAT's we've seen in the last decade are Michael Phelps, Simone Biles,
and probably Tom Brady (I don't give a crap or know about football, correct me if I'm wrong).
I may be forgetting one or some olympic sports as well.

This, of course, excludes sports that have recently ascended like MMA where we're seeing new GOATs all the time.

That's 3 total though. The math adds up.

It is obvious you don' know tennis, and you shouldn't trust him. Just use internet for few days, inform yourself and you will make 100% better comment. Check record books

[Richard Miller]

undisputed my ass.

He is behind Nadal and federer.

he has only taken advantage of the other two being older and with poor health that made them miss a lot gs.

Lol he's same age as Nadal, only one year difference. Thanks for the laughs

[Drakeem]

Why are we conducting popularity contests and character litmus tests? We're talking about who is the best player to play tennis. You can debate all you want about whose game was the prettiest, who was the most professional, who is the most adored, etc, etc all you want. Everyone is entitled to their favorites. Hell, my favorite basketball player for a while was Carmelo and he was far from the best player in the league.

But Tennis is a solo sport. Novak's accomplishments are just too undeniable at this point. He has a winning record against both of his competitors, the record for GSs, and countless other records that people haven't been able to do (hold all 4 GSs at the same time in the Open era, doing the Golden Masters twice, etc). He's great on all surfaces as well unlike a Nadal. You can hate him and that's fine, but he's separated himself from the big 3 convo.

Novak is the Kendrick to Fed and Nadal's Drake and Cole, sorry. Every since he got questioned and he dedicated himself fully to pushing himself to his absolute limit, he's popped out and showed everyone.

[Bergmaniac]

funny thing is that Novak has far more fans worldwide than federer and nadal.

Fake impression that it's otherway around comes from the most influental anglomedia and anglo people being buthurt (they also comprise the fans on most famous stadiums). But that's less then 1/9th of the world population. In the rest of the world Novak is considered the GOAT since several years ago.

Even almost all the former players, some that hated Novak, now say that he is undesputably the best to have ever played, with just a few adding that they like Federer's style better.

Novak is undesputed GOAT of tennis, probably the clearest GOAT case in any sport, and arguably the best athlete to ever play any sport

Thinking he is the GOAT and being a fan of him are two different things. I think he is the GOAT, as far as such a claim can be made in a sport which has changed so drastically over the years (if you watch a game from even only 30 years ago, it's like a different sport due to the massive changes in racquet technology, surfaces, balls, etc, and if we compare today's game to the wooden racquets era, the difference is drastic), he is certainly the best of his era, but I am not a fan of him by any means because I don't like his playstyle and I find him annoying.

And what's the source of the claim that he has "far more fans worldwide" than Federer and Nadal? Actual data or just vibes?

[TheShow2021]

I think Novak is the GOAT, but not undisputed and also think the Olympics is overrated as it pertains to a tennis player's legacy. It's a smaller draw and only 3 sets...

[brackdan70]

Upon defeating Carlos Alcaraz in a thrilling 2-set Olympic Final, Novak Djoković secured both the gold and his status as the objective GOAT of tennis.

Record 24 Gland Slams
Only player to complete triple Career Grand Slam
Record 40 ATP Tour Masters
Only player to complete Career Golden Masters, which he has done twice
Superior Head-to-head record against every other contender
Olympic gold medal in Men’s Singles



May the doubt rest in peace.

Undisputed is a strong word.
Plenty of doubt still. He has a really strong argument but you really can’t compare different eras.
Federer is 5 years older and was past his prime when Jokic entered his.

Federer had the most dominant 5 year period by far 2004-2009. More than twice as many consecutive weeks at number 1 than Jokic.
Jokic has been near the top for a long time though. Credit for that.

[Hellcrooner]

Why are we conducting popularity contests and character litmus tests? We're talking about who is the best player to play tennis. You can debate all you want about whose game was the prettiest, who was the most professional, who is the most adored, etc, etc all you want. Everyone is entitled to their favorites. Hell, my favorite basketball player for a while was Carmelo and he was far from the best player in the league.

But Tennis is a solo sport. Novak's accomplishments are just too undeniable at this point. He has a winning record against both of his competitors, the record for GSs, and countless other records that people haven't been able to do (hold all 4 GSs at the same time in the Open era, doing the Golden Masters twice, etc). He's great on all surfaces as well unlike a Nadal. You can hate him and that's fine, but he's separated himself from the big 3 convo.

Novak is the Kendrick to Fed and Nadal's Drake and Cole, sorry. Every since he got questioned and he dedicated himself fully to pushing himself to his absolute limit, he's popped out and showed everyone.

so he has a " winning " recrod vs nadal.

a total of 31 vs 29 games ( the last of those has been some days ago with nadal absolutely out of it after esentially being retired and phisically destroyed).

but oh
dont look now.

Nadal has a winning record vs Djokovic ( and over federer) IN GRAND SLAM FINALS.
basically the GAMES THAT MATTER.

so its like if nba player a has a winning record vs player B in the regular season but go figure player b has a winning record vs A and MORE RINGS won in the finals in wich they have played head to head because he wins iwhen it matters

undisputed my ass.

[brackdan70]

Yeah an Olympic gold doesn’t really separate him. You can make strong arguments for Nadal, Federer, and Jokic.

[Inspektor1312]

What a madlad. He's obviously the GOAT, every record is his, he's like the combination of Russel's number of titles, MJ's competitiveness and Lebron's longevity.
Novak became the very first player in history of tennis to win every single major title in his career. 4 grand slams, 9 masters, davis cup, world tour finals, and olympic gold. No one has ever done it in history of tennis, until now.

He's in a tier of his own.

[Drakeem]

Why are we conducting popularity contests and character litmus tests? We're talking about who is the best player to play tennis. You can debate all you want about whose game was the prettiest, who was the most professional, who is the most adored, etc, etc all you want. Everyone is entitled to their favorites. Hell, my favorite basketball player for a while was Carmelo and he was far from the best player in the league.

But Tennis is a solo sport. Novak's accomplishments are just too undeniable at this point. He has a winning record against both of his competitors, the record for GSs, and countless other records that people haven't been able to do (hold all 4 GSs at the same time in the Open era, doing the Golden Masters twice, etc). He's great on all surfaces as well unlike a Nadal. You can hate him and that's fine, but he's separated himself from the big 3 convo.

Novak is the Kendrick to Fed and Nadal's Drake and Cole, sorry. Every since he got questioned and he dedicated himself fully to pushing himself to his absolute limit, he's popped out and showed everyone.

so he has a " winning " recrod vs nadal.

a total of 31 vs 29 games ( the last of those has been some days ago with nadal absolutely out of it after esentially being retired and phisically destroyed).

but oh
dont look now.

Nadal has a winning record vs Djokovic ( and over federer) IN GRAND SLAM FINALS.
basically the GAMES THAT MATTER.

so its like if nba player a has a winning record vs player B in the regular season but go figure player b has a winning record vs A and MORE RINGS won in the finals in wich they have played head to head because he wins iwhen it matters

undisputed my ass.

If only Nadal could have kept that level of play up for a long enough time on surfaces other than clay. In any case, I could even concede Nadal maybe being the most talented (although I'd never begin to make an assumption on how long his longevity would be if he had stayed healthier bc butterfly effect and all that).

But it's okay.

[Richard Miller]

Why are we conducting popularity contests and character litmus tests? We're talking about who is the best player to play tennis. You can debate all you want about whose game was the prettiest, who was the most professional, who is the most adored, etc, etc all you want. Everyone is entitled to their favorites. Hell, my favorite basketball player for a while was Carmelo and he was far from the best player in the league.

But Tennis is a solo sport. Novak's accomplishments are just too undeniable at this point. He has a winning record against both of his competitors, the record for GSs, and countless other records that people haven't been able to do (hold all 4 GSs at the same time in the Open era, doing the Golden Masters twice, etc). He's great on all surfaces as well unlike a Nadal. You can hate him and that's fine, but he's separated himself from the big 3 convo.

Novak is the Kendrick to Fed and Nadal's Drake and Cole, sorry. Every since he got questioned and he dedicated himself fully to pushing himself to his absolute limit, he's popped out and showed everyone.

so he has a " winning " recrod vs nadal.

a total of 31 vs 29 games ( the last of those has been some days ago with nadal absolutely out of it after esentially being retired and phisically destroyed).

but oh
dont look now.

Nadal has a winning record vs Djokovic ( and over federer) IN GRAND SLAM FINALS.
basically the GAMES THAT MATTER.

so its like if nba player a has a winning record vs player B in the regular season but go figure player b has a winning record vs A and MORE RINGS won in the finals in wich they have played head to head because he wins iwhen it matters

undisputed my ass.

Nadal is closer to Andy Roddick in weeks at #1 than to Novak, lol

[BelgradeNugget]

Upon defeating Carlos Alcaraz in a thrilling 2-set Olympic Final, Novak Djoković secured both the gold and his status as the objective GOAT of tennis.

Record 24 Gland Slams
Only player to complete triple Career Grand Slam
Record 40 ATP Tour Masters
Only player to complete Career Golden Masters, which he has done twice
Superior Head-to-head record against every other contender
Olympic gold medal in Men’s Singles



May the doubt rest in peace.

Undisputed is a strong word.
Plenty of doubt still. He has a really strong argument but you really can’t compare different eras.
Federer is 5 years older and was past his prime when Jokic entered his.

Federer had the most dominant 5 year period by far 2004-2009. More than twice as many consecutive weeks at number 1 than Jokic.
Jokic has been near the top for a long time though. Credit for that.

If we are talking about peak, Novak (again) holds a record for the most atp points at one time, which is 1 year peak. He set it at the time both Federer and Nadal were at their peaks.

Just for comparation in 2004 Novak was 17 and Nadal 18.

[bisme37]

[Chuck Everett]

undisputed my ass.

He is behind Nadal and federer.

he has only taken advantage of the other two being older and with poor health that made them miss a lot gs.

[TheShow2021]

If only Nadal could have kept that level of play up for a long enough time on surfaces other than clay. In any case, I could even concede Nadal maybe being the most talented (although I'd never begin to make an assumption on how long his longevity would be if he had stayed healthier bc butterfly effect and all that).

Nadal was clearly the least talented of the 3, albeit probably the 3rd most talented in the world in their primes. His game relies more on endurance, athleticism, indomitable will (besides being obvious by the naked eye, also evidenced by falling off a bit earlier than the other 2). Nadal was the biggest beneficiary of the slower courts, racquet and string technology to play a style that wouldn't have been possible before Babolat racquets and polyester strings.

[stoo]

so satisfying listening to buthurt fans lol--- cry darling

[Drakeem]

If only Nadal could have kept that level of play up for a long enough time on surfaces other than clay. In any case, I could even concede Nadal maybe being the most talented (although I'd never begin to make an assumption on how long his longevity would be if he had stayed healthier bc butterfly effect and all that).

Nadal was clearly the least talented of the 3, albeit probably the 3rd most talented in the world in their primes. His game relies more on endurance, athleticism, indomitable will (besides being obvious by the naked eye, also evidenced by falling off a bit earlier than the other 2). Nadal was the biggest beneficiary of the slower courts, racquet and string technology to play a style that wouldn't have been possible before Babolat racquets and polyester strings.

Athleticism = natural talent. It's quite literally innate ability you're born with.