Which Players Would You NOT Trade for Luka?

[KG Leonard]

Guys maybe we should adjust our idea of Luka's value considering his team just went out of their way to get rid of him?

The only NBA team he's played for deemed him a poorly conditioned, non-competetive, unprofessional defensive liability and approached another team about taking him so they wouldn't have to pay him a big contract. I can't really see this happening with other current top 10 players.

Just thinking out loud here.

Thats why i say no to Luka in Celtics, rather have a top 5-6 player that has played more games in 8 seasons than most superstars ever and he isn't seen as flawed defender whose character was judged negatively.

This trade says a lot of bad things about Luka, you don't dump a top 5 player who is young if you think there is nothing wrong with his discipline and conditioning.....

Or the Mavericks are just a terrible organization. This trade is certainly not the first mark of their incompetence.

Nah I don't believe in conspiracies, I believe in my eyes of the lazy Luka of 7 years whose bad discipline and conditioning issues might ruin his his potential as an all-time great talent. That might be enough to become a Harden type star in LA but maybe not more like it is expected of him.

There is a reason Jokic changed his body to run more than everyone and Giannis, Kawhi worked themselves to death to reach their full potential.

[zero rings]

Yes he did carry them. Kyrie is quite literally the only other guy on that roster who can make anything happen in the halfcourt.

The Celtics didn’t have anyone on their roster who can cook like Luka in the half court, and they won the title in dominating fashion. There’s more to basketball than just hero ball.

And again, just looking at the numbers, Luka wasn’t really cooking that hard. His counting stats and efficiency were way down. The best thing the Mavs had going for them in the playoffs was their size and team defense, which Luka was not a part of.

Brother you're not trying to pretend Luka doesn't have one of the all-time best offensive records in the postseason, right?

He didn’t last postseason, nor did he look all that great at the beginning of this season.

The Mavs believe this is a trend and they are getting out of the Luka business.

[QingJames]

Thats why i say no to Luka in Celtics, rather have a top 5-6 player that has played more games in 8 seasons than most superstars ever and he isn't seen as flawed defender whose character was judged negatively.

This trade says a lot of bad things about Luka, you don't dump a top 5 player who is young if you think there is nothing wrong with his discipline and conditioning.....

Or the Mavericks are just a terrible organization. This trade is certainly not the first mark of their incompetence.

Nah I don't believe in conspiracies, I believe in my eyes of the lazy Luka of 7 years whose bad discipline and conditioning issues is running is potential as all-time great talent. He lost NBA finals games complaining and lost his cool and he is That might be enough to become a Harden type star in LA but maybe not more like it is expected of him.

There is a reason Jokic changed his body to run more than everyone and Giannis, Kawhi types worked themselves to death to reach their full potential.

Right so the Nuggets should have traded Jokic away at age 25 because of his bad conditioning and because they lost in the 2nd round? That's what you're advocating for?

Also what's the conspiracy here? That Nico Harrison is bad at his job and that the Adelsons are cheap?

[zero rings]

...you wouldnt trade Tatum OR Brown for Luka? Cmon dude.

Nope. I want guys who put 110% effort into their craft. Luka doesn't do that. I'm in better shape sitting on the couch watching games than that guy is playing them.

We're talking about an annual MVP threat who led the league in scoring and played in the Finals just a few months ago. He put up 34 points, 10 rebounds, and 9 assists per game while being tasked with primary ball-handling duties last year. His weight doesn't concern me in the slightest. And if this move sparks enough motivation for him to fully commit to the gym, the league is in trouble.

Embiid was breaking scoring records and on his way to a second MVP about 12 months ago. Now everyone is wondering if he has functioning knees.

The Mavs apparently think Luka is on a similar trajectory.

[QingJames]

The Celtics didn’t have anyone on their roster who can cook like Luka in the half court, and they won the title in dominating fashion. There’s more to basketball than just hero ball.

And again, just looking at the numbers, Luka wasn’t really cooking that hard. His counting stats and efficiency were way down. The best thing the Mavs had going for them in the playoffs was their size and team defense, which Luka was not a part of.

Brother you're not trying to pretend Luka doesn't have one of the all-time best offensive records in the postseason, right?

He didn’t last postseason, nor did he look all that great at the beginning of this season.

The Mavs believe this is a trend and they are getting out of the Luka business.

Lmfao he played 40 mpg in the playoffs last year (but terrible conditioning - right?), average 29 points on 45% with 9.5 rebounds and 8 assists per game. Highest offensive winshare of his careers in the playoffs by the way. Highest defensive win shares of his career in the playoffs by the way. Second-lowest turnover % of his career in the playoffs by the way. Best VORP of his career in the playoffs by the way. Second best WS/48 in his career in the playoffs by the way.

[QingJames]

Nope. I want guys who put 110% effort into their craft. Luka doesn't do that. I'm in better shape sitting on the couch watching games than that guy is playing them.

We're talking about an annual MVP threat who led the league in scoring and played in the Finals just a few months ago. He put up 34 points, 10 rebounds, and 9 assists per game while being tasked with primary ball-handling duties last year. His weight doesn't concern me in the slightest. And if this move sparks enough motivation for him to fully commit to the gym, the league is in trouble.

Embiid was breaking scoring records and on his way to a second MVP about 12 months ago. Now everyone is wondering if he has functioning knees.

The Mavs apparently think Luka is on a similar trajectory.

Embiid has also had a million lower body injuries particularly to the same knee over and over again. Embiid is 5+ years older. Apples to oranges.

[KG Leonard]

Or the Mavericks are just a terrible organization. This trade is certainly not the first mark of their incompetence.

Nah I don't believe in conspiracies, I believe in my eyes of the lazy Luka of 7 years whose bad discipline and conditioning issues is running is potential as all-time great talent. He lost NBA finals games complaining and lost his cool and he is That might be enough to become a Harden type star in LA but maybe not more like it is expected of him.

There is a reason Jokic changed his body to run more than everyone and Giannis, Kawhi types worked themselves to death to reach their full potential.

Right so the Nuggets should have traded Jokic away at age 25 because of his bad conditioning and because they lost in the 2nd round? That's what you're advocating for?

Also what's the conspiracy here? That Nico Harrison is bad at his job and that the Adelsons are cheap?

25 year old Jokic might not be the historic monster he is now but he wasn't a problem to get rid off. He looked great in the West finals in 2020 bubble season. Losing to the last historic version of Lebron. Even when they lost early rounds after, it wasn't because he refused to get better. It was 2019-2020 when he slimmed down and even before he wasn't injury prone player that his team thinks there is something wrong with his mental discipline.

Bad comparison between the two.

[UglyBugBall]

Denver would be out of their minds trading Jokic. He’s so much better than Luka, and centers tend to age better than guards - especially guards that weigh 270 pounds.

Shai is a lot better than Luka, too.

When it's all said and done I think Luka ends up ahead of Jokic all-time, and with that in mind, it makes sense to make that trade especially since he's much younger.

This might the weirdest take on the reality, of NBA history because there is no proof Luka will become near Jokic level. He is only 4 years younger, 26 this month like SGA and Tatum. He isn't 22 years old with unlimited potential.

Dallas thinks he doesn't deserve to earn 300+ million that Jaylen Brown get from Boston. There is reason enough to believe he won't become much better after 7 years of bad defence and so many condition issues. He is closer to Embiid career so far than 3 times MVP and finals MVP.

Jokic is chasing top 15 players ever and higher so far.

Like you said, Jokic is aiming for the top 10 all-time, but Luka’s chasing top 5. Year for year, Luka leads Jokic in career achievements, numbers, and talent at equivalent points of their career. Luka’s second all-time in playoff scoring average, made the Finals last season, and has won more playoff series in the past 3 years than Jokic. There’s every reason to believe Luka will end up ahead of Jokic when it’s all said and done.

[ciueli]

Guys maybe we should adjust our idea of Luka's value considering his team just went out of their way to get rid of him?

The only NBA team he's played for deemed him a poorly conditioned, non-competetive, unprofessional defensive liability and approached another team about taking him so they wouldn't have to pay him a big contract. I can't really see this happening with other current top 10 players.

Just thinking out loud here.

There are a lot of people on this board who are overrating him right now. Yeah, he had a fantastic season last year but he's played 22 games this season and his numbers are not what they were in 2023-24, a significant drop in both scoring and efficiency. Still superstar level, but the diet and conditioning issues have been question marks since he was drafted and he's only gotten worse every year.

Throw in the fact that he is a whiner and has attitude issues, picks up bad technicals, we've known he's been a diva for years. Not a player I'd consider trading for Tatum at all, and I'm not even a huge Tatum fan. At least the Celtics can count on Tatum playing defence and being in incredible shape for the rest of his career, that's not a given for Luka, we've seen players eat and drink themselves out of the league before, it can absolutely happen to Luka once he has his next max contract.

[KG Leonard]

When it's all said and done I think Luka ends up ahead of Jokic all-time, and with that in mind, it makes sense to make that trade especially since he's much younger.

This might the weirdest take on the reality, of NBA history because there is no proof Luka will become near Jokic level. He is only 4 years younger, 26 this month like SGA and Tatum. He isn't 22 years old with unlimited potential.

Dallas thinks he doesn't deserve to earn 300+ million that Jaylen Brown get from Boston. There is reason enough to believe he won't become much better after 7 years of bad defence and so many condition issues. He is closer to Embiid career so far than 3 times MVP and finals MVP.

Jokic is chasing top 15 players ever and higher so far.

Like you said, Jokic is aiming for the top 10 all-time, but Luka’s chasing top 5. Year for year, Luka leads Jokic in career achievements, numbers, and talent at equivalent points of their career. Luka’s second all-time in playoff scoring average, made the Finals last season, and has won more playoff series in the past 3 years than Jokic. There’s every reason to believe Luka will end up ahead of Jokic when it’s all said and done.

You might as well say Harden is top 5 ever, Luka has just done brilliant scoring with heliocentric basketball that is historic usage rates. The regular season numbers will be forgotten easily if he don't win in the biggest stage, deep in playoffs.

[QingJames]

Nah I don't believe in conspiracies, I believe in my eyes of the lazy Luka of 7 years whose bad discipline and conditioning issues is running is potential as all-time great talent. He lost NBA finals games complaining and lost his cool and he is That might be enough to become a Harden type star in LA but maybe not more like it is expected of him.

There is a reason Jokic changed his body to run more than everyone and Giannis, Kawhi types worked themselves to death to reach their full potential.

Right so the Nuggets should have traded Jokic away at age 25 because of his bad conditioning and because they lost in the 2nd round? That's what you're advocating for?

Also what's the conspiracy here? That Nico Harrison is bad at his job and that the Adelsons are cheap?

25 year old Jokic might not be the historic monster he is now but he wasn't a problem to get rid off. He looked great in the West finals in 2020 bubble season. Losing to the last historic version of Lebron. Even when they lost early rounds after, it wasn't because he refused to get better. It was 2019-2020 when he slimmed down and even before he wasn't injury prone player that his team thinks there is something wrong with his mental discipline.

Bad comparison between the two.

What's the bad comparison? Luka also isn't a problem to get rid of and has had more postseason success than Jokic by age 25 season. You're twisting yourself into loops to justify an awful trade if you wouldn't have made the same trade with Jokic.

Either "his team" (Nico Harrison, degenerate gambler) thinks there is something wrong with him or the Adelsons are just cheap bastards who don't want to pay him after a finals appearance and giving Trump's campaign $100 million. I have strong suspicions on which is true.

[ArksNetsSince99]

Guys maybe we should adjust our idea of Luka's value considering his team just went out of their way to get rid of him?

The only NBA team he's played for deemed him a poorly conditioned, non-competetive, unprofessional defensive liability and approached another team about taking him so they wouldn't have to pay him a big contract. I can't really see this happening with other current top 10 players.

Just thinking out loud here.

Bro I think you confuse Luka the Don Doncic with Zion the burger

I don’t think you’re aware that’s all this conditioning is one big bull crap , I’m not a Lakers fan but wait for the next season , Luka will be in the best shape of his life , real monster and probably clear #1 player in entire league maybe only on par with Jokic and Wemby , if Wemby improves dramatically

[UglyBugBall]

This might the weirdest take on the reality, of NBA history because there is no proof Luka will become near Jokic level. He is only 4 years younger, 26 this month like SGA and Tatum. He isn't 22 years old with unlimited potential.

Dallas thinks he doesn't deserve to earn 300+ million that Jaylen Brown get from Boston. There is reason enough to believe he won't become much better after 7 years of bad defence and so many condition issues. He is closer to Embiid career so far than 3 times MVP and finals MVP.

Jokic is chasing top 15 players ever and higher so far.

Like you said, Jokic is aiming for the top 10 all-time, but Luka’s chasing top 5. Year for year, Luka leads Jokic in career achievements, numbers, and talent at equivalent points of their career. Luka’s second all-time in playoff scoring average, made the Finals last season, and has won more playoff series in the past 3 years than Jokic. There’s every reason to believe Luka will end up ahead of Jokic when it’s all said and done.

You might as well say Harden is top 5 ever, Luka has just done brilliant scoring with heliocentric basketball that is historic usage rates. The regular season numbers will be forgotten easily if he don't win in the biggest stage, deep in playoffs.

He's won more playoff series than Jokic has. In fact at Lukas age, what has Jokic even done? There really isn't any reason to believe Luka won't surpass Jokic when age-for-age Luka has been ahead every step of the way. This isn't a diss on Jokic, but if you're going to diss Luka I have to point that out.

[KG Leonard]

I'm not dissing Luka, I will take his flawed self over the current version av SGA. I'm saying he has shown many flaws that I understand his team doing this historical bad trade in what they got back.
He is just not in the same universe as Jokic of the last 5 years imo.
That's why it is a bad comparison, he has much to prove, superstars are not made by regular season numbers only.

[shi-woo]

The only sure bets are Jokic, Wemby, Giannis.

Shai and Tatum are guys that have similar impact at a similar age, but the respective teams wouldn't trade them. Shai looks to be a similar player, and Tatum is building legacy going 1/2 in the finals. It's not always about having the best player, building around Tatum has paid dividends, and same with Shai so far.

I don't think Minny trades Ant for Luka. He's the vibe of the NBA right now, and his 2way potential is ridiculous. If Luka is LeBron of this Gen than our boy is def the Wade.

I would be interested in if the Cavs would trade either Mitchel or Mobley. Mitch is just the PG size version of Luka, and Evan looks to be mini AD who they just traded. I don't think in real life either of those guys gets traded given the current circumstances. Mitchell showed loyalty and CAVS are best team in the league. He's also a floor raiser and has proven it time and time again. I think they would trade Mobley for Luka, just not with this current team. They would have to trade Garland too, and that's a lot to ask of the best team in the league.

If I'm ORL I also would think hard about Paolo. I personally wouldn't do it but that's because Paulo has 2nd stint Cavs LeBron potential. His size and ball skills are fantastic. He's proven to be a floor raiser too, it's just a matter of time before he cracks Top 10 lists.

That's it, I would trade every player on a roster after those guys, and give you any other player you want too most likely.

You want Franz and Suggs? Sold, i'm crying tears of joy at my luck to start Anthony Black and KP alongside Luka and Paolo.

[CobraCommander]

Sga, wemby, jokic, tatum or Giannis-

Tatum is a champ- so you don’t move him cause he might repeat - you don’t move the champ

The rest of the guys obviously either better or equal to Luka

[Eightnineborn]

Im not trading ANYONE on my cavs for a fatguy who complains and plays no D.

[DwayneSchintzus]

i wonder how long the mavs fans will continue to pump their former guy...he's not on the team anymore its okay to admit he's out of shape and horrible on defense lol

its like they have stockholm syndrome with this dude.

[runtmc]

Brother you're not trying to pretend Luka doesn't have one of the all-time best offensive records in the postseason, right?

He didn’t last postseason, nor did he look all that great at the beginning of this season.

The Mavs believe this is a trend and they are getting out of the Luka business.

Lmfao he played 40 mpg in the playoffs last year (but terrible conditioning - right?), average 29 points on 45% with 9.5 rebounds and 8 assists per game. Highest offensive winshare of his careers in the playoffs by the way. Highest defensive win shares of his career in the playoffs by the way. Second-lowest turnover % of his career in the playoffs by the way. Best VORP of his career in the playoffs by the way. Second best WS/48 in his career in the playoffs by the way.

Last year RS vs Playoffs: PER 28->22 TS% 62->56 WS/48 .220->.149 etc etc. Literally every stat down across the board was worse to much worse, PPG, off rebounds, assists, TO, usg%, BPM, VORP. About the only major stat he was better in was a small increase in STL%. For comparison, .220 WS/48 is 1st-2nd All-NBA level, .149 is fringe all-star. Now, most players have their stats drop in the playoffs compared to RS -- facing better teams/defenses etc. But his drop off was more than typical.

And comparing his playoffs to his past playoffs isnt making a case for "all-time best offensive records in the postseason". Luka's largely been pretty bad over his career in the playoffs compared to the RS, definitely not what I would call all-time levels. His career WS/48 is .145 in the playoffs, which would put him 81st for example.

But the point the poster was making is that all of his numbers are already showing a declining trajectory in the playoffs, which is not a good sign for a dude that's got conditioning issues and is only 25. His PER in the 2022 playoffs was 28, last season it dropped to 22 -- thats a huge dropoff. WS/48 fell 15 points, etc etc. The only reason his OWS/DWS went up is because those are cumulative stats, and since he played more games, of course theyre higher. Its like saying he scored more points in the playoffs even though his PPG dropped -- its only because of the number of games played. His win shares per minute/per game dropped, which is what matters.

[Bush4Ever]

Personally, I've been a little lower on Luka than the general consensus on average.

I wouldn't mess with winning formulas (like SGA in OKC or Tatum in Boston), and think he is more behind Jokic/Giannis as a centerpiece than most people believe, and would never consider Wemby at all.

His age is intriguing versus some of the elite players, but it's pulled back some by his physical issues, emotional issues/attitude, and (IMO) questions about how well he would fit into other offensive systems. I don't think any of his issues are fatal ones, but are meaningful enough to throw the scale off a bit, so to speak. Those issues would make me pull the trigger only if I thought I had a clear win, not a 50/50 situation.