All-NBA discussion

[NBA4Lyfe]

does the clippers out performing preseason win/loss expectations factor in at all

what's crazy is harden may finish with close to 200 career win shares and only have 6 allnba selections to his name. luka already has 5 allnba and he aint even 27

how does a player never miss the playoffs in 16 years and only have 6 all nba selections for his career


*edit: please don't move the goal post to the playoffs, im talking about harden strictly outperforming the clippers lowly lottery team predictions by several nba outlets. people told ballmer to blow it up when pg13 left for nothing. some said okc was gonna be in the cooper flagg sweepstakes because the prevailing thought was that the clippers would be awful and that thunder owner their pick

[tsherkin]

Top-25 in O-EPM. Team isn't even top-15 offensively. He isn't a major defensive contributor. Team IS the 3rd-best defense in the league.

Why would he be All-NBA?

[UcanUwill]

I wouldn't want to contribute to the thread based on who made it, but if we are being serious, he has a light chance at being All NBA third team, but I imagine he wont make it. JE Skeets did his annual all NBA 10 teams haha, and I believe Harden was all NBA 8th. team? Which even to me sounded low.

[NBA4Lyfe]

Top-25 in O-EPM. Team isn't even top-15 offensively. He isn't a major defensive contributor. Team IS the 3rd-best defense in the league.

Why would he be All-NBA?

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[Homer38]

does the clippers out performing preseason win/loss expectations factor in at all

what's crazy is harden may finish with close to 200 career win shares and only have 6 allnba selections to his name. luka already has 5 allnba and he aint even 27

how does a player never miss the playoffs in 16 years and only have 6 all nba selections for his career


*edit: please don't move the goal post to the playoffs, im talking about harden strictly outperforming the clippers lowly lottery team predictions by several nba outlets. people told ballmer to blow it up when pg13 left for nothing. some said okc was gonna be in the cooper flagg sweepstakes because the prevailing thought was that the clippers would be awful and that thunder owner their pick

Powell was their best players for most of the year and at the end,it was more about Kawhi.Their team defense have also been amazing all year long....No it was not a one man show by Harden or other clippers players

[NBA4Lyfe]

so the season stats matter

but what about 2023 when harden had a 21/11/6 szn on 61% true shooting. it may seem like i'm nagging the general board, but i'm legit confused at what the criteria is for all-nba selections. is who grants the media/voters more access or interviews or what

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[Homer38]

so the season stats matter

but what about 2023 when harden had a 21/11/6 szn on 61% true shooting. it may seem like i'm nagging the general board, but i'm legit confused at what the criteria is for all-nba selections. is who grants the media/voters more access or interviews or what

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He has been very good in the last 20 games,but the season is not just 20 games long....He was trash as scorer before that when he was under 40%

Maybe he can make the all-nba team but I need to see the list of the others candidates.....

[NBA4Lyfe]

does the clippers out performing preseason win/loss expectations factor in at all

what's crazy is harden may finish with close to 200 career win shares and only have 6 allnba selections to his name. luka already has 5 allnba and he aint even 27

how does a player never miss the playoffs in 16 years and only have 6 all nba selections for his career


*edit: please don't move the goal post to the playoffs, im talking about harden strictly outperforming the clippers lowly lottery team predictions by several nba outlets. people told ballmer to blow it up when pg13 left for nothing. some said okc was gonna be in the cooper flagg sweepstakes because the prevailing thought was that the clippers would be awful and that thunder owner their pick

Powell was their best players for most of the year and at the end,it was more about Kawhi.Their team defense have also been amazing all year long....No it was not a one man show by Harden or other clippers players

so the narrative moved again

because zubac and powell were on this team prior to the experts saying that the clippers would be a lottery team. the only new addition has been bogi and a backup center.

so what is with the sudden change, the media said the clippers should blow it up and i even made a thread with said if the clippers make the playoffs without pg13 and kawhi for most of the season should harden make all-nba

seems like the nba media can't decide what criteria they want to follow, similar situation happened in 2016 when harden didnt make allnba and the following szn he should have won the mvp according to the bbref mvp tracker that year but i guess it would look bad on the voters part if harden won mvp after not making any allnba team the prior yr

[Homer38]

does the clippers out performing preseason win/loss expectations factor in at all

what's crazy is harden may finish with close to 200 career win shares and only have 6 allnba selections to his name. luka already has 5 allnba and he aint even 27

how does a player never miss the playoffs in 16 years and only have 6 all nba selections for his career


*edit: please don't move the goal post to the playoffs, im talking about harden strictly outperforming the clippers lowly lottery team predictions by several nba outlets. people told ballmer to blow it up when pg13 left for nothing. some said okc was gonna be in the cooper flagg sweepstakes because the prevailing thought was that the clippers would be awful and that thunder owner their pick

Powell was their best players for most of the year and at the end,it was more about Kawhi.Their team defense have also been amazing all year long....No it was not a one man show by Harden or other clippers players

so the narrative moved again

because zubac and powell were on this team prior to the experts saying that the clippers would be a lottery team. the only new addition has been bogi and a backup center.

so what is with the sudden change, the media said the clippers should blow it up and i even made a thread with said if the clippers make the playoffs without pg13 and kawhi for most of the season should harden make all-nba

seems like the nba media can't decide what criteria they want to follow, similar situation happened in 2016 when harden didnt make allnba and the following szn he should have won the mvp according to the bbref mvp tracker that year but i guess it would look bad on the voters part if harden won mvp after not making any allnba team the prior yr

So you think player like Zubac deserve to be in the all-nba team?

[NBA4Lyfe]

i thought analytics measured stats like gravity, or does that only apply to steph

seems like harden gets punished for his elite floor raising ability while luka and jokic get praised for it


dunn, derick jones jr, zubac, powell and many other clippers are having career years with harden but somehow harden gets no credit.

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[Homer38]

i though analytics measured stats like gravity, or does that only apply to steph

seems like harden gets punished for his elite floor raising ability while luka and jokic get praised for it


dunn, derick jones jr, zubac, powell and many other clippers are having career years with harden but somehow harden gets no credit.

The clippers were a bottom 10 offense for most of the year before Kawhi play great.....

[SA37]

Harden was questionable as an All-star selection. No way he should get any consideration for all-NBA even with many players being ineligible.

Curry-Mitchell-Cunningham-Brunson-Edwards-SGA are likely to be the 6 guards selected. Then you have guys like Haliburton, J Brown, and Garland who would def be in front of Harden.

[NBA4Lyfe]

i though analytics measured stats like gravity, or does that only apply to steph

seems like harden gets punished for his elite floor raising ability while luka and jokic get praised for it


dunn, derick jones jr, zubac, powell and many other clippers are having career years with harden but somehow harden gets no credit.

The clippers were a bottom 10 offense for most of the year before Kawhi play great.....

they were a bottom 10 offense but still were beating the likes of the nuggets and the warriors because of hardens playmaking

you think kris dunn, or powell could run the clippers offense


also i just checked harden ranks very high in defensive box plus minus and defensive win shares. i think harden has more defensive win shares than offensive win shares this year. which may have never happened in his career before lol. so harden has been a factor in the clippers great defense according to bbref. seems people dismiss bbref rating harden very high, but just accept the same stat when jokic is leading the league in defensive bpm lol

[NBA4Lyfe]

Powell was their best players for most of the year and at the end,it was more about Kawhi.Their team defense have also been amazing all year long....No it was not a one man show by Harden or other clippers players

so the narrative moved again

because zubac and powell were on this team prior to the experts saying that the clippers would be a lottery team. the only new addition has been bogi and a backup center.

so what is with the sudden change, the media said the clippers should blow it up and i even made a thread with said if the clippers make the playoffs without pg13 and kawhi for most of the season should harden make all-nba

seems like the nba media can't decide what criteria they want to follow, similar situation happened in 2016 when harden didnt make allnba and the following szn he should have won the mvp according to the bbref mvp tracker that year but i guess it would look bad on the voters part if harden won mvp after not making any allnba team the prior yr

So you think player like Zubac deserve to be in the all-nba team?

why has zubac and powell ever played at this level prior to harden

zubac has been JAG for years, powell had several chances of being a number 1 option in portland and it never happened. so every single role player is just magically playing at their best level when harden leads the team in usage rate lol. come on my guy, i have way more stats in twitter that i can use, but im just trying to understand what the criteria is

oh and btw i have been staunch in my belief that james harden SHOULD NOT have been an all star this yr. look at my post history for proof

i just don't know what the criteria is

[tsherkin]

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And? None of that addresses the fact that the Clippers are winning with defense more than offense, and that 20 games don't really make a good season. This isn't an All-NBA season from Harden at all.

[NBA4Lyfe]

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And? None of that addresses the fact that the Clippers are winning with defense more than offense, and that 20 games don't really make a good season. This isn't an All-NBA season from Harden at all.

harden is top 3 in defensive win shares on bbref

so by your own logic if the clippers are winning due to their defense, then harden is a big reason why. we just accept that bbref having jokic at the top of defensive analytics was a sure thing, but now thst harden is top 3, then that means bbref is "glitching" is that what you are saying

[tsherkin]

harden is top 3 in defensive win shares on bbref

No one with eyes believes he's a defensive anchor. Improved over his usual self, no doubt, but clearly not a primary driver of a top-3 defense. That's pretty straightforward.

so by your own logic if the clippers are winning due to their defense, then harden js a big reason y

No, that's illogical. They're the best defensive rebounding team in the league, they're 7th in defensive TOV% and 8th in defensive eFG%. Harden is driving very little of that.

C'mon, man, don't be lazy or disingenuous.

[NBA4Lyfe]

harden is top 3 in defensive win shares on bbref

No one with eyes believes he's a defensive anchor. Improved over his usual self, no doubt, but clearly not a primary driver of a top-3 defense. That's pretty straightforward.

so by your own logic if the clippers are winning due to their defense, then harden js a big reason y

No, that's illogical. They're the best defensive rebounding team in the league, they're 7th in defensive TOV% and 8th in defensive eFG%. Harden is driving very little of that.

C'mon, man, don't be lazy or disingenuous.

i never believed in the media saying luka was an "improved" defender or that jokic was the best pick and roll defender either but the media used the stats on bbref as their argument and jokic has 3 or 4 mvps because of it



so are we just picking and choosing which stats to believe are real and which ones are bs. seems like we believe the stats more if we like that player.. is that what it is, cause im confused

how does luka have 5 first team all nba selections including a 1st team selection even after missing the playoffs. how the hell does jokic win the mvp as a 6th seed and not only that, but gets no pushback for losing in the first round like dirk did back in 2007

are you saying the voters have an inherit bias againist certain players and can punish players like harden from meeting requirements of getting huge contracts

[tsherkin]

i never believed in the media saying luka was an "improved" defender or that jokic was the best pick and roll defender either but the media used the stats on bbref as their argument and jokic has 3 or 4 mvps because of it

Jokic doesn't have MVPs because of defensive win shares.

how does luka have 5 first team all nba selections including a 1st team selection even after missing the playoffs. how the hell does jokic win the mvp as a 6th seed and not only that, but gets no pushback for losing in the first round like dirk did back in 2007

Jokic does get push back. And Luka is statistically similar to what Harden was when he was making the All-NBA teams. He has a half-dozen All-NBA 1st Team selections, and a third team selection beyond that. When he was good enough, he was making the team.

are you saying the voters have an inherit bias againist certain players and can punish players like harden from meeting requirements of getting huge contracts

No. Nothing I said even remotely approaches that.

What I am saying, however, is that Harden is shooting like absolute dog crap and not scoring as much as he once did, so his overall offensive impact isn't dominant, and his team's offense reflects that. The team is winning primarily on the back of defense, and he isn't a high-end defender at all.

This is basic stuff.

[LoneyROY]

Harden was questionable as an All-star selection. No way he should get any consideration for all-NBA even with many players being ineligible.

Curry-Mitchell-Cunningham-Brunson-Edwards-SGA are likely to be the 6 guards selected. Then you have guys like Haliburton, J Brown, and Garland who would def be in front of Harden.

Jaylen Brown?

Brown is averaging 22/6/4.5 on 55.5 TS%.

Harden is averaging 23/8/6 on 58 TS%.

Just stop.